Tywin et al. Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 3 minutes ago, DMC said: No. My argument is the deal has already been negotiated, give me what you promised. It's absolutely reasonable outside of your fantasy land. And plus -- it's not feckless! Negotiated by 48+1. Is that 50+1? But I'm in fantasyland.... Quote How do you not understand that two Senators don't get to cut $700 billion in funding that can help people? How do you not understand without those Senators you get......nothing. You don't have the leverage here, unless again, you want to further hurt the party. Awesome look? Great for everyone's reelection chances. And such a legacy building exercise. Lol. Quote It's absolutely bullshit. $3.5 trillion was not Bernie Sanders' - the chair of the Budget Committee - high asking price. It's ludicrous to even argue this. No, but what he proposed was a joke realistically. What is ludicrous is to think a $6T package had even more than a .00001% chance of happening. That's the bullshit. $3.5T is what the reasonable high end approach was, and the two notable dickheads said no. And you need to deal with that. Why you are fighting it so pointlessly, Idk... Again, you have said before you knew that was never going to be the final tag, so fighting labeling it as a high end starting point is bullshit and just dishonest. Quote ....I didn't say "take it or leave it." But thanks for spreading even more bullshit. I said your "concessions" to a small handful of moderates is way too much to give away. And in turn you're the worst negotiator ever. I said that because you are, indeed, the worst negotiator ever. Lol, this is sad. You are saying take it or leave it, and if you don't accept my terms it's your fault we can't make a deal. Trying to phrase it differently doesn't change your actual position. Quote I said your "concessions" to a small handful of moderates is way too much to give away. It's not too much to give away when you have literally nothing without them. Do you not understand that? Don't ever question my negotiation skills again when this is the weak response you have to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Negotiated by 48+1. Is that 50+1? But I'm in fantasyland.... Yes. Yes you are to think two Senators should affect a bill to the extent that's bigger than the other bill they're arguing for. It's incredibly stupid and I suggest you get help. 5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: You don't have the leverage here, unless again, you want to further hurt the party. The leverage is they don't want everything to fail either. That's obvious. So instead of bending over, maybe make them commit to their commitments. 6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: No, but what he proposed was a joke realistically. Why? You think if you ran a poll and put the Dem reconciliation bill at $6 trillion instead of $3.5 trillion there'd be much of a difference in public opinion? You're the joke. 7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Again, you have said before you knew that was never going to be the final tag, so fighting labeling it as a high end starting point is bullshit and just dishonest. No, that's how negotiations work. Maybe you can wiki it or something. 8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: You are saying take it or leave it, and if you don't accept my terms it's your fault we can't make a deal. Trying to phrase it differently doesn't change your actual position. I'm saying I'm not for cutting 20% from a bill because Manchin and Sinema scare you to death. Get it through your head that's not the same as take it or leave it. 10 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Don't ever question my negotiation skills again when this is the weak response you have to offer. I do. I SO question your negotiation skills when they get responses like this. I have a hard time not continually laughing at how pathetic this is. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 1 hour ago, DMC said: Yes. Yes you are to think two Senators should affect a bill to the extent that's bigger than the other bill they're arguing for. It's incredibly stupid and I suggest you get help. I have to say as someone with a psychology degree, this is in very poor form, and again, sad. I don't think they should be doing this, which again I've said several times now today despite it not registering for you, but they are, so you need to grow up and accept that. This is how the game works. Time to step out of your academia bubble and remember that. You're the math guy here, but you still can't seem to count the votes. Quote The leverage is they don't want everything to fail either. That's obvious. So instead of bending over, maybe make them commit to their commitments. As of now that's off the table. Maybe it's hallow in the end, but that's TBD and would be a bad look overall for Democrats if it failed, regardless of the reconciliation package. And again, if the hard infrastructure bill fails, guess who gets blamed for that... Free hint, not Manchin or Sinema outside of very liberal circles. Quote Why? You think if you ran a poll and put the Dem reconciliation bill at $6 trillion instead of $3.5 trillion there'd be much of a difference in public opinion? You're the joke. Lol. I think that would poll worse and it would have zero chance of passing the Senate. We know this because $3.5T is already a no go. But I'm the joke? Come on man, you're so much better than this lazy shit. Quote No, that's how negotiations work. Maybe you can wiki it or something. Okay, can you provide the wiki link to someone saying that $3.5T is what we must hold the line for and also the same person saying they know $3.5T is a number that was never going to happen? Wiki link being the post you fucking admitted that in dude. You said that and you damn well know it. So stop with this childish bullshit. Quote I'm saying I'm not for cutting 20% from a bill because Manchin and Sinema scare you to death. Get it through your head that's not the same as take it or leave it. And if they say take it or leave? So far your response every single time has been leave it. With zero counter proposals I might remind you outside of passing the original $3.5T proposals, maybe with some minor trimming, and even on that front you've been hard to pin down. It's easy to reject things. Cutting deals is far more messy and you may not have the stomach for it. Quote I do. I SO question your negotiation skills when they get responses like this. I have a hard time not continually laughing at how pathetic this is. Thanks! Trust me, just about every single person I've worked in a political office with would be laughing just as hard at how poorly you've conducted yourself today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said: so you need to grow up and accept that. You need to grow up and accept the fact that most Democrats - including Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Steny Hoyer, Jim Clyburn, Dick Durbin, and Patty Murray - all disagree with your line of approach. You also need to grow up and understand that your undergrad degree doesn't make you an expert in shit, but that's a whole other problem. 4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: As of now that's off the table. Maybe it's hallow in the end, but that's TBD and would be a bad look overall for Democrats if it failed, regardless of the reconciliation package. ....What's off the table? The progressives voting down the bipartisan infrastructure deal? No, it's not. At all. It's REALLY fucking stupid to think it is. Just because they haven't said anything - which if they did you'd whine about endlessly - doesn't mean the progressives aren't just as willing to play the card the "moderates" you are defending are playing exactly right now. 6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Lol. I think that would poll worse and it would have zero chance of passing the Senate. We know this because $3.5T is already a no go. But I'm the joke? Come on man, you're so much better than this lazy shit. You said it was the "high asking price." It, obviously, was not the high asking price. As evidenced by you admitting it was not the high asking price. You're demonstrably wrong on this. Come on man, you're so much better than this lazy shit. 9 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Okay, can you provide the wiki link to someone saying that $3.5T is what we must hold the line for and also the same person saying they know $3.5T is a number that was never going to happen? It's..shocking how stupid you're willing to make yourself look. You are simultaneously saying I'm unable to budge from the $3.5 trillion number while attacking me for saying I'll budge from the $3.5 trillion number. Just not nearly as much as you're willing to give away. Willing to give away, in fact, with absolutely zero evidence the people you're talking about are even demanding that. 12 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: With zero counter proposals I might remind you outside of passing the original $3.5T proposals My counter proposal is cutting 20% from a major legislative initiative because of a handful of MCs is incredibly stupid. I have been entirely consistent about this from the start. Because you have no argument against the fact you're assuming a cut that is larger than the bipartisan infrastructure bill these handful of MCs are insisting on is tactically absurd, you are flailing around comedically. 16 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Trust me, just about every single person I've worked in a political office with would be laughing just as hard at how poorly you've conducted yourself today. Is that before or after they ask you go get them coffee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 @DMC @Tywin et al.: maybe take a break from this argument. It's getting a little personal and it's taking over the entire thread. You're not making any headway so give it a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 I was just about to ask if everyone else has just been scrolling past pages and pages of posts, looking for something to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 I don't understand arguing over who is to "blame" for negotiations that are still going on. If this thing falls apart, there will be PLENTY of blame to go around. I remain reasonably confident that it won't, and thus am not terribly concerned. I am glad the Democrats are swinging big, but whether the final number of the two bills is 4.7 trillion or 4.5 trillion isn't something giving me a lot of heartburn. I have enough actual problems in my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, Maithanet said: I don't understand arguing over who is to "blame" for negotiations that are still going on. If this thing falls apart, there will be PLENTY of blame to go around. I remain reasonably confident that it won't, and thus am not terribly concerned. I am glad the Democrats are swinging big, but whether the final number of the two bills is 4.7 trillion or 4.5 trillion isn't something giving me a lot of heartburn. I have enough actual problems in my life. If things do fall apart entirely, it's easy to know who to blame: Biden. Presidents get a lot of unnecessary blame for bipartisan talks falling apart, but there's a really limited amount of leverage, if any, that they have over the opposing party. But they have a ton of leverage over their own party, and if Biden can't bring everyone in line in the end for a Democratic bill, that's on him. It's fine to sit back for now and let negotiations happen, but he'll need to step up in the end if things hit a deadlock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 $3.5T or bust? Sanders goes all-out to protect Dems' social spending plans "The truth is we need more," the Vermont senator said in an interview, adding this is "the minimum of what we should be spending." https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/26/sanders-dems-spending-506896 Quote Bernie Sanders is shifting into a new phase of his legacy-defining work on Democrats’ $3.5 trillion spending plan: Protecting it from members of his own party and selling it to the public. Sanders understands that there will be changes to his vision given the party’s slim majorities in each chamber, now that the blueprint is approved. But as Senate moderates propose chipping away at the $3.5 trillion price tag, he’s in no mood to haggle on the top line number. “I already negotiated. The truth is we need more,” Sanders said in an interview on Wednesday, ahead of a swing into conservative parts of the Midwest to stump for his transformative policy blueprint. “The needs are there. This is, in my view, the minimum of what we should be spending.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 4 hours ago, Maithanet said: and thus am not terribly concerned. I am not losing any sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 Oh dear. The Capitol Police officer who shot Babbit is going to reveal his identity on Lester Holt tonight. Does he have... a) a death wish or b) a book to promote AND a death wish or c) ...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 So the latest on the Afghan evac is reporting multiple U.S. service members killed in the airport blasts. Pentagon confirms 'a number' of US service members killed in Kabul airport attack https://www.cnn.com/webview/world/live-news/afghanistan-news-taliban-refugees-08-26-21-intl/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said: So the latest on the Afghan evac is reporting multiple U.S. service members killed in the airport blasts. Pentagon confirms 'a number' of US service members killed in Kabul airport attack https://www.cnn.com/webview/world/live-news/afghanistan-news-taliban-refugees-08-26-21-intl/index.html Latest report I've seen is 4 Marines have been killed, a number more injured. Tragic, but every day we stay at the airport evacuating people it becomes a more and more tempting target to IS. This is why the president should stick with his August 31st departure date, unless something truly extraordinary or catastrophic happens that makes it literally impossible to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 33 minutes ago, Mindwalker said: Oh dear. The Capitol Police officer who shot Babbit is going to reveal his identity on Lester Holt tonight. Does he have... a) a death wish or b) a book to promote AND a death wish or c) ...? Damage control - apparently his name has been making the rounds on the qonservative moron-osphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 Well, damn. I really fear for his safety. No matter what he says in this interview. Speaking of Capitol Hill police, these 7 officers are doing what the DOJ should be doing... Seven Capitol Police officers filed a lawsuit Thursday against Donald Trump and some 20 far-right extremist leaders, alleging a coordinated plot on Jan. 6 to thwart the peaceful transition to a new administration. (...) “This is probably the most comprehensive account of Jan. 6 in terms of civil cases,” Edward Caspar, the lead attorney on the suit filed by the Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, told the Times. “It spans from the former president to militants around him to his campaign supporters.” Specifically, the suit names Trump ally Roger Stone along with leaders of the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers militia, and others. The suit argues that Trump and his allies violated the Ku Klux Klan Act of 1871 that prohibits the use of conspiracies to block Congress from performing its constitutional duties. (...) The Times notes that the suit mainly relies on news reports and some information gleaned from the government's criminal cases in order to build a narrative around the alleged plot to overthrow the government. For instance, it cites Trump’s instructions to the Proud Boys during a fall debate to “stand back and stand by” and connects it to subsequent public avowals by extremist leaders to use armed resistance as a means to “save the White House.” However, the process of discovery could also unearth new details about potential interactions between Trump, his inner circle, and the extremist groups that worked to incite violence on Jan. 6. (...) https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/8/26/2048371/-Seven-Capitol-Police-officers-sue-Trump-allies-and-extremist-groups-in-expansive-civil-lawsuit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 1 hour ago, DireWolfSpirit said: So the latest on the Afghan evac is reporting multiple U.S. service members killed in the airport blasts. Pentagon confirms 'a number' of US service members killed in Kabul airport attack https://www.cnn.com/webview/world/live-news/afghanistan-news-taliban-refugees-08-26-21-intl/index.html NPR just reported 12 dead US service persons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 I see a dozen American soldiers have died in the two bombing incidents at the Kabul airport. Well, damn it all. Just damn it all. And not to forget the civilians, either. F*** those F***ing suicide bombers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 4 hours ago, Ran said: Latest report I've seen is 4 Marines have been killed, a number more injured. Tragic, but every day we stay at the airport evacuating people it becomes a more and more tempting target to IS. This is why the president should stick with his August 31st departure date, unless something truly extraordinary or catastrophic happens that makes it literally impossible to leave. It’d probably be bad politically. Americans typically love violent retaliation and just leaving after 12 US troops died looks bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 As the US are back on top of the world with regards to COVID cases and deaths, I have to say that the Republican Party is a menace to the world. They are not anti-science, no, they are anti-intelligence. Seeing people like DeSantis in his glorious dumbness and stupidity I get violent fantasies. These stupid, totally ignorant, incompetent and arrogant Republicans are 100% responsible for the current COVID escalation. One can call the current Democrats a lot, spineless, sanctimonious, self-righteous, hypocrites, pretentious, you name it, but at least they are not Republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: It’d probably be bad politically. Americans typically love violent retaliation and just leaving after 12 US troops died looks bad. 13 now (and by various accounts over 60 Afghans), and on queue the GOP led by McCarthy are calling for an increased troop presence in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.