Covid-19 #37: Mississippi Worming

[Gorn]

7 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Vaccine passports make sense for multiple reasons.

1. They incentivize vaccinations among many people. We've seen this in provinces in Canada and countries in Europe that institute them. Carrots have had little effect (like Quebec's vaccine lottery). The stick of a vaccine passport has led to massive uptakes in appointments for first doses (Ontario has already seen this in the past 24 hours). So, on a basic level, these passports perform a public good by making people be responsible, even if for selfish reasons.

2. They make it safer for patrons and staff of restaurants, pubs, gyms, etc... Yes, people who are vaccinated can still get COVID. Yes, if they're infected, they can still spread it at the same rate as the unvaccinated. But it's clear now from follow-up studies that vaccinated people are a) much less likely to get COVID to begin with than the unvaccinated and b) are sick/symptomatic/capable of transmission for a much shorter period. So, these passports don't eliminate risk, but they do reduce it massively.

3. That means lockdowns that require the shutdown of restaurants/bars/gyms are less likely to be needed. The majority of restaurant owners in Canadian provinces that have been polled are in favour of these passports, because they understand that if these places become major vectors of spread, then they may be shut down again. Nobody wants that.

4. We're in a fucking pandemic. Comparisons to Chinese social credit are bonkers. In places like Quebec with a vaccine passport, your name and a QR code with your vaccination status are shown. Nobody is keeping track of your info. And does your freedom from the vaccine supersede the freedom of an immunocompromised person to not get infected and hospitalized/

Many places long before this have required you to have vaccines to enter countries or go to schools. It's a way of keeping everyone safe and preventing outbreaks of easily spreadable diseases (or, in this case, of preventing outbreaks and lowering hospitalizations/deaths. I had to get all sorts of vaccines to attend university, because mine had expired. That's a good thing. And this is much less restrictive than that. In the end, if you don't give a fuck enough about your community to get a vaccine because you don't care or because you've watched too many Tucker Carlson videos, that's your choice. But choices have consequences, especially in times of emergency. No beer for you. Come back, one year.

 

One problem is that it shifts the responsibility for dealing with loud and sometimes violent anti-vaxxers on underpaid, overworked service staff.

https://www.vox.com/recode/22652766/service-workers-vaccine-passports-customers-mask-mandates

[Caligula_K3]

7 minutes ago, Gorn said:

One problem is that it shifts the responsibility for dealing with loud and sometimes violent anti-vaxxers on underpaid, overworked service staff.

https://www.vox.com/recode/22652766/service-workers-vaccine-passports-customers-mask-mandates

This is very true. I already feel horrible for retail/restaurant staff in this pandemic having to enforce masks...

[Padraig]

6 hours ago, Filippa Eilhart said:

I wonder what will happen when the vaccine passes begin to expire? Will the EU recommend boosters then? Or give up the passes altogether?

I fear it is likely that the EU will recommend boosters.  It has already said it is fine for the immuno-compromised (although they aren't called boosters). Given the EU ramped up later then the US/UK, it isn't a surprise if the next rollout happens later too.  And it gives time for more doses to head further afield.  One step at a time.

I know Israel has shown some benefits but I don't think there is enough solid evidence yet.  

Ireland has suggested that it will get rid of the vaccine cert except for international travel at the end of October.  Cases have finally started to fall here but they are very high at the moment (although fatalities have remained low).  And this decision regarding the cert is definitely dependent on that reduction continuing (I'll be curious to see does schools restarting effect things).  But yes, if cases are low, I fully expect the use of the cert to end.  Will cases reduce enough?  I'm not sure.  We could be using those certs for quite a while.  I'm fine with that (although, wish it didn't have to happen).

There is a suggestion that the worst of Delta is over in Europe, or at least the EU side.  A lot of countries are seeing declines now.  On the other hand, some countries have seen no real impact yet (e.g. Poland).  So it could still be a matter of time.  Norway (for example) is having its worst ever breakout and it was one of the standout countries up to now for dealing with COVID.  While places like Serbia/Albania/Slovenia are all having surges.

[BigFatCoward]

1 hour ago, Gorn said:

One problem is that it shifts the responsibility for dealing with loud and sometimes violent anti-vaxxers on underpaid, overworked service staff.

https://www.vox.com/recode/22652766/service-workers-vaccine-passports-customers-mask-mandates

More than happy to go and 'deal' with anti vaxxers with extreme prejudice. 

[Zorral]

7 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Do you think they will quickly give up such wonderful social tool? Probably first it will be expanded for boosters, next for other vaccines and maybe for other things. It will be merged into your digital ID and linked to your bank account. Not unlike the Chinese social credit.

If I were you in these matters of privacy invasion, surveillance, unwarranted investigations, fake accusations of criminal behavior etc. -- we will do far better to be combatting the varieties of legislation carried out in Texas and upheld by the Supreme Court concerning guns, abortion, targeting women, and everybody else who isn't raging hate-filled, white, violent racist and anti-vaxxer.  They've literally instituted a bounty for anybody who wishes to go after a woman to punish her and anyone who helps her.  This is another version of the vile 1850 Fugitive Slave Act, that pushed the north over the edge, and the south got the war of conquest for slavery it had been agitating for, for decades.

 

[rotting sea cow]

10 minutes ago, Zorral said:

If I were you in these matters of privacy invasion, surveillance, unwarranted investigations, fake accusations of criminal behavior etc. -- we will do far better to be combatting the varieties of legislation carried out in Texas and upheld by the Supreme Court concerning guns, abortion, targeting women, and everybody else who isn't raging hate-filled, white, violent racist and anti-vaxxer.  They've literally instituted a bounty for anybody who wishes to go after a woman to punish her and anyone who helps her.  This is another version of the vile 1850 Fugitive Slave Act, that pushed the north over the edge, and the south got the war of conquest for slavery it had been agitating for, for decades.

 

You have no idea how much I agree with you and that's another reason why these things should never be implemented. What today is being used to exclude the non-vaccinated, tomorrow can and will be used to prevent women to have an abortion or to persecute gays or whoever those in power think is the enemy. We are living in a world where disruptive technologies can cause enormous damage to human rights. See this new Australian law, passed within 24h amid the lockdown. Or the Apple initiative to protect children. Or the IMF proposal to use your internet history for credit ranking.

Countries really need far stronger institutions to keep check on those initiatives and have a vision on how can be misused before using them.

Regarding the Texas law, yes, it's aberrant.

[Zorral]

Women won't be prevented from receiving reproductive health care in the future, they already are being prevented from receiving it, and have been increasingly prevented from doing so for decades.  It's not a covid vaccination passport that is doing it.  It has been said over and over that pregnant women are in great danger of severe/critical illness if they are infected with covid -- but These Ilks are evangelically trumpeting the lies -- so many lies nobody can keep up -- that vaccination will make a woman abort or become infertile.  So right there is another weapon this law points at women  -- a vaccinated woman can be accused of aborting an embryo, and the people who administered the vaccination be accused criminals.  Yes, this is where legislation such as in TX followed to logical conclusion goes -- and much further than that.

Vaccination passports are no different than proof of vaccination for going to school, a driver's license to take a lethal weapon on the road, etc.  They are for public good.  What Texas and all the rest have done and are doing and will do are the antithesis of the public good -- it's ever present, ongoing lethal danger to the public good -- and every individual. 

[The Marquis de Leech]

Another drop in New Zealand today - 20 cases. Sure, one might quibble about testing, but one would imagine the tests are declining because they've done the people they need to test.

One death though, a woman in her 90s.

[The Anti-Targ]

The decrease in testing between yesterday and today is proportionally less than the decrease in positive cases. So the positivity rate has gone down a bit. We can definitely conclude that case numbers are declining, we just can't be certain that they are declining fast enough to make the tail a long or short one to get Auckland out of a lockdown state, I am confident that they will be able to move to level 3 at the next review date. But it would be good to be able to move straight to level 2, and allow the rest of the country to go to level 1. But I think the more likely scenario, assuming things keep going well is a 3/2 split at the next review for Auckland. I wonder if the govt will go for a 4/2 split before the Auckland review date, or maybe even a 4/3/2 split to allow the South Island to open up sooner.

[Fragile Bird]

Fingers crossed for New Zealand!

[The Marquis de Leech]

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The decrease in testing between yesterday and today is proportionally less than the decrease in positive cases. So the positivity rate has gone down a bit. We can definitely conclude that case numbers are declining, we just can't be certain that they are declining fast enough to make the tail a long or short one to get Auckland out of a lockdown state, I am confident that they will be able to move to level 3 at the next review date. But it would be good to be able to move straight to level 2, and allow the rest of the country to go to level 1. But I think the more likely scenario, assuming things keep going well is a 3/2 split at the next review for Auckland. I wonder if the govt will go for a 4/2 split before the Auckland review date, or maybe even a 4/3/2 split to allow the South Island to open up sooner.

My guess is that Auckland stays in Level 4 until they hit zero new daily cases, There are simply too many downsides of Delta getting back out at Level 3.

[karaddin]

Really glad to see someone appearing to beat Delta back down after it got out. I'm with the Leech - don't take the chance and hold till zero.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

On July 1st, Premier Kenney declared the provence of Alberta "re-opened".

This was a month ago. After they announced a complete relaxation scheduled for late August:

This is today.

Quote

"Amid an influx of COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations, Alberta is reinstating measures it got rid of just two months ago as well as offering a $100 vaccination incentive.

Starting Saturday, masks will be mandatory across the province in all indoor public and work spaces. Schools will continue to set their own policies.

Licensed businesses will be required to end alcohol service at 10 p.m.

And, Alberta will pay unvaccinated residents $100 to get the COVID-19 shot.

The announcement on Friday came with a plea from Premier Jason Kenney for the 30 per cent of eligible unvaccinated Albertans to "do the right thing." Their choice to not get vaccinated, he said, was jeopardizing the health care system, whose ICU capacity was at 95 per cent province wide that morning.

He disagreed the $100 incentive was a bribe or reward to people who had so far ignored medical and scientific advice.

"I wish we didn't have to do this, but this is not a time for moral judgements. This is a time to get people vaccinated," he said."

 

Kenney didn't have to do this. His idiocy and lack of proper messaging forced him to do this. Also note that after they declared, "all clear" back in July they were trying to get Alberta nurses to agree to a 3% pay cut. 

Not mentioned in the quote is that boosters are now available in the province for certain individuals; including those with a medical need and those who mixed vaccines and need the 3rd to pass travel restrictions. 

The $100 bribe will be available for residents that get poked between Sep. 3 and Oct. 14. I already got my shots so I guess I'm shit out of luck.

[DireWolfSpirit]

And Still It Goes On And On And On........conservatives will not stop cramming the worm and lice treatment into their bodies.

You cannot make this up.

https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9

I really assumed that it was a fad and they would catch on that this isn't a good practice.....but nope.

[The Anti-Targ]

10 hours ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

My guess is that Auckland stays in Level 4 until they hit zero new daily cases, There are simply too many downsides of Delta getting back out at Level 3.

I think if they keep Auckland at level 4 beyond the 2 weeks there may bed to be a level 3 buffer zone to the north and the south to stop certain entitled and selfish people from trying to sneak across the borders to go to a cafe or do some shopping. Which probably means in practice there is no point in putting anywhere in the North Island on level 2 until Auckland can drop to level 3. So my guess is a 4/3/2 split happening on Tuesday.

[BigFatCoward]

7 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

And Still It Goes On And On And On........conservatives will not stop cramming the worm and lice treatment into their bodies.

You cannot make this up.

https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9

I really assumed that it was a fad and they would catch on that this isn't a good practice.....but nope.

Fuck them. Fuck them all. 

[Raja]

Glad to see the New Zealand numbers! My sister is in Auckland so I've been keeping an eye out.

There's been a whole narrative recently that delta's cases cannot be suppressed with a lockdown*, but lots of countries in Europe, Asia, including India have shown that our NPIs certainly work for delta too.

*I define lockdown here as closing of all non-essential shops, including bars and restaurants, stay at home orders, masking etc

 

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

Fuck them. Fuck them all. 

Not only are they taking a medication designed for horses, they are taking it in the same dosage as given to horses, animals with a much greater body weight (well, maybe most of the time, depending on how small the pony might be?).

[maarsen]

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

Not only are they taking a medication designed for horses, they are taking it in the same dosage as given to horses, animals with a much greater body weight (well, maybe most of the time, depending on how small the pony might be?).

Which begs the question as to the size of a horse's ass.

[Zorral]

7 minutes ago, maarsen said:

Which begs the question as to the side of a horse's ass.

It's the backend, not a side.  

There is a virus that has turned 30% of the US pop batshittery deranged.  It has been identified.  It is Fox News.  Hang Murdoch.