Arya, the Darkheart

[Craving Peaches]

1 hour ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Whoever does the same to Arya will performing a public service. 

No they won't. Arya is a child who can learn better if restored to a proper environment for a child to be in. Raff was an adult who was most likely set in his ghastly ways.

Whoever kills Arya will also be just as guilty of murder as she is, unless they are working for the authorities.

[SeanF]

On 11/18/2022 at 8:37 AM, Craving Peaches said:

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by SeanF
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[SeanF]

Dark-hearted Arya is Arya of the show, not the books.  Show Arya was a sadist who appeared to be receiving orgasm as she watched Walder Frey die.

Arya of the books is generally sympathetic, but horribly traumatised.

 

[Nevets]

That Raff got killed doesn't bother me at all.  That Arya is the one that killed him bothers me a great deal.  That sort of thing is not good for a child to be doing.  I'm hoping she veers off the path she's on before it's too late; I think she will.

[Shierak Qiya]

On 11/8/2022 at 6:28 PM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

Quinn Howard talks about Arya's dark future in this video from youtube.  Quinn was kinder to Arya than I would have been.  Please watch the video and we can discuss Arya's future. 

Arya's first murders were committed for the purpose of self-preservation.  Later murders cannot be excused nor forgiven.  The murders of Dareon and the Old Insurance man were two of the most heinous crimes committed in all of the story.  Arya, like Jon, is fickle about justice.  There was no justice for Dareon.  Dareon was a victim of injustice from the very beginning and was sent to the wall at the whim of his lord.  The supposed unethical business practices of the Old Man had not and has not been established.  Arya killed him because the crime is her key to get into the school of murderers.  Church is a better description for the House of Black & White.  Cult is much better.  A cult of crackpots and evildoers who sacrifice people to the god of many faces. 

Catelyn is now Stoneheart.  A walking zombie without mercy or pity.  Jon will come back as the Coldheart, another zombie who will show no pity and no mercy to those who will stand between he and Arya.  Arya is Darkheart, which is a subtle difference.  Darkheart is worse.  Arya will show no mercy but dark also means evil.  Arya is insane to be sure.  But being insane does not mean she is without guilt. 

The Ghost of High Heart associates the tragic past of Summerhall to present day Arya Stark.  Wildfire was involved at Summerhall.  The woman saw an accurate vision of Arya's dark future.  Arya has a lot of blood on her hands.  She will soon be covered in many layers of blood.  Arya will commit a mass murder which will result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.  I have seen posted predictions of her methodology of choice.  I do not think Arya will employ poison.  She is too small to attack a crowd directly.  Arya will use Wildfire to commit mass murder.  It is impossible for Arya to ever be normal again.  The future for her is very, very dark.  And she will become the darkest, most evil, of the main characters. 

 

This bloody trail of her own making is not going to take Arya to a happy place. 

"Revenge has its own scent and it is not sweet."  (Lace, 1984)

[Shierak Qiya]

3 hours ago, SeanF said:

Dark-hearted Arya is Arya of the show, not the books.  Show Arya was a sadist who appeared to be receiving orgasm as she watched Walder Frey die.

Arya of the books is generally sympathetic, but horribly traumatised.

 

The variance is noted.  HBO wanted to scratch the itch of the Stark fanbase who were screaming for Frey blood.  I did not like the show and cancelled short of the last season.  Arya is not sympathetic though.  They are both right in that regard. 

[The Gizzard of Oz]

On 11/14/2022 at 4:25 AM, Sandy Clegg said:

She's literally a child. How much responsibility should she bear, compared to those who put her in these positions?

She still made a choice to murder Dareon and the insurance man.  Those were choices.  

[Craving Peaches]

8 minutes ago, The Gizzard of Oz said:

She still made a choice to murder Dareon and the insurance man.  Those were choices.

But they were not entirely of her own free will. She makes those choices after being reconditioned by a murder cult for a few months. She is ordered to kill the insurance man. And this all occurs after she is removed from her family and home, thrust into an unfamiliar environment, and desperate for somewhere to belong.

[TheLastWolf]

4 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

But they were not entirely of her own free will. She makes those choices after being reconditioned by a murder cult for a few months. She is ordered to kill the insurance man. And this all occurs after she is removed from her family and home, thrust into an unfamiliar environment, and desperate for somewhere to belong.

Don't defend like that, as if arguing with a rational individual. 

[Craving Peaches]

5 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Don't defend like that, as if arguing with a rational individual.

I was trying to defend characters from bias using Facts and Logic™, however given that the Facts and Logic™ (e.g. the actual text) is being ignored...

[Darth Sidious]

On 11/18/2022 at 1:59 PM, Craving Peaches said:

No they won't. Arya is a child who can learn better if restored to a proper environment for a child to be in. Raff was an adult who was most likely set in his ghastly ways.

Whoever kills Arya will also be just as guilty of murder as she is, unless they are working for the authorities.

So you don’t want Arya to receive punishment? I disagree with your position on this. I am not calling for an execution of Arya but incarceration for a few decades seems just to me. 

[Craving Peaches]

7 hours ago, Darth Sidious said:

So you don’t want Arya to receive punishment?

Nice try, but that's not what I said. Obviously Arya shouldn't get away scot-free. I would, like a modern court, take Arya's age and other factors into account if I were sentencing her, which some people here clearly aren't a fan of, given they want her to lose eyes and limbs.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

Browsed through the comments and the fandom is again divided.  One end are those who want no punishment for Arya, to the opposite end are the ones who want Arya to get executed for her crimes.  I agree that the punishment for her crimes so far have to be severe and permanent.  Being blinded in one eye for the rest of her life will pay for the murder of Dareon.  I don't buy that she will stop.  Arya's mind is in a very dark place and she will become evil as the names on the list are crossed off. 

[Craving Peaches]

3 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

One end are those who want no punishment for Arya

Who has said this? All people have been saying is that people should take into account she's a manipulated child when thinking of a punishment. Absolutely no-one has said Arya should receive no punishment. Please stop making things up.

3 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

I agree that the punishment for her crimes so far have to be severe and permanent.  Being blinded in one eye for the rest of her life will pay for the murder of Dareon.  I don't buy that she will stop.

She is a child, who while in a vulnerable situation, was manipulated and coerced into carrying out these acts! Why would you want to harm her like this? Where is the punishment for the greater villains, all the people who used her that way? Finally, how will this punishment help Arya to see the error of her ways or reintegrate into normal society? There is a reason why a lot of courts don't use punishments like this anymore. It is cruel and ineffective.

[Craving Peaches]

I am surprised that people seem to be in favour of corporeal punishment on a child who wasn't even fully responsible for her actions. With Dareon it is murder, but she was ordered to kill the old man, after some coercion. She's a child. Children are almost never as criminally liable as adults. And Arya has been conditioned and exploited to kill people.

[Moiraine Sedai]

A modern court would sentence Arya to an institution for the criminally insane. She is unlikely to be released.  Which is a fair sentence for the murder of Dareon and the old gentleman as long as she is never released.  Arya will get a hearing, which is more than she gave Dareon, Raff, and the old man.  

[Craving Peaches]

24 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

A modern court would sentence Arya to an institution for the criminally insane.

Arya is under age 12 so where I live she would not be being prosecuted at all. And she wouldn't be sent to an institution for the criminally insane, because she isn't insane.

25 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

She is unlikely to be released.

Children receive lower sentences than adults in general. And when you factor in that Arya was manipulated into carrying out the crimes, I would imagine a significant reduction in 'sentence', assuming she even got a custodial one in the first place. So yes, she is likely to be released.

27 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

as long as she is never released

People who have killed others entirely of their own free will in worse ways than Arya are not always detained forever. So I doubt it.

[Raven Princling]

I feel like some people are forgetting that Arya is a literal child, and a lot of her arc is about how revenge is pointless and simply repeats the cycle of violence (which I think she will understand before the end of the series).

I just hope that people will hold characters like Daenerys to the same standard as Arya, Jon and etc. when her invasion of Westeros will cause countless deaths and rapes. Something tells me they will not, because pretty special dragon queen. (I do not dislike Dany do not get me wrong).

 

[Craving Peaches]

1 minute ago, Raven Princling said:

I just hope that people will hold characters like Daenerys to the same standard as Arya, Jon and etc. when her invasion of Westeros will cause countless deaths and rapes. Something tells me they will not, because pretty special dragon queen. (I do not dislike Dany do not get me wrong).

Some of these same people give Daenerys a free pass for having the Wineseller's possibly child-aged daughters tortured in front of their father so...

[SeanF]

42 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Arya is under age 12 so where I live she would not be being prosecuted at all. And she wouldn't be sent to an institution for the criminally insane, because she isn't insane.

Children receive lower sentences than adults in general. And when you factor in that Arya was manipulated into carrying out the crimes, I would imagine a significant reduction in 'sentence', assuming she even got a custodial one in the first place. So yes, she is likely to be released.

People who have killed others entirely of their own free will in worse ways than Arya are not always detained forever. So I doubt it.

Charities try to rehabilitate African child soldiers.  They don’t put out their eyes, and chop off their limbs.

in our world, Arya would not be punished, but sent for fostering, and counselled for her traumas.