Fandom Phases

[The Bard of Banefort]

Maegor the Male Feminist is one of the most genuinely bizarre takes I’ve seen, and I don’t even think it’s trolling. It’s espoused by Rhaenyra stans who think Maegor was progressive for temporarily naming Aerea his heir. (They seem to forget about him personally murdering two of his wives and forcing three others—including his niece—to marry him).

Jaehaerys and, to a lesser extent, Alysanne aren’t as idolized as they were before FnB. In some respects, I’d say Jaehaerys is a bit over-hated by fans (having a meltdown because your daughter had premarital sex is pretty low on the Shitty Things Targaryens Did list) but it makes for a better story to have J/A be flawed rather than the perfect power couple they had been presented as up until then.

Arya’s an interesting case. She’s still a popular character, but there’s very little theorizing about her future.

Content creators definitely influence the fandom. I remember when Poor Quentyn was on a bender about Jaime’s arc being about “the limits of redemption,” which is such a hilarious word salad (newsflash: all redemption arcs are about limits. Darth Vader redeemed himself by killing Palpatine; all those other people he killed were still dead though). Now there are people questioning what he needs to be redeemed for.

Preston Jacobs convinced an entire generation of fans that Doran Martell is a secret mastermind and not just an indecisive man who’s in way over his head. I’m not a big fan of PJ, but seeing all those other YouTubers/bloggers lose their minds over his theories were hilarious. It was so clearly driven by jealousy that he was getting more attention than them.

BryndenBFish didn’t just quit the fandom; he deleted all of his accounts. If you didn’t start reading ASOIAF until this year, you would have no idea who he is, and that’s crazy to think about.

[Craving Peaches]

12 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

having a meltdown because your daughter had premarital sex is pretty low on the Shitty Things Targaryens Did list

To be fair I don't think it's just that, it's the way he forced her lover into trial by combat and made her watch...when you think about it it's a bit weird... someone made a good post about it.

[kissdbyfire]

18 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Preston Jacobs convinced an entire generation of fans that Doran Martell is a secret mastermind and not just an indecisive man who’s in way over his head. I’m not a big fan of PJ, but seeing all those other YouTubers/bloggers lose their minds over his theories were hilarious. It was so clearly driven by jealousy that he was getting more attention than them.

So true!

And for the record, he’s also convinced many, many readers of a bunch of other stuff, some of it way more outlandish than this. And it’s interesting, his theories start ok and then around 1/3 of the way in go off the rails spectacularly. Sort of like JJ Abrams TV shows. 
 

I’d still rather watch one of his videos than content from other “fandom famous” who, at this point, have more subscribers than he does.
 

ETA: and PJ’s reviews of GoT are absolutely fantastic and hilarious!

Edited March 30, 2023 by kissdbyfire

[Lord of Oldstones]

Saera should have been packed off to be married to some hedge knight or to some old Lord Greyjoy or Mormont.Jaehaerys was too kind to her. 

[LongRider]

The phases of the fandom since 2014.  When I first got here it was heavy on foreshadowing, then heavy on Celtic and other myths, and now much on mentioning of GRRM’s other books and they compare to ASOIAF.   Been a fun ride!

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

I know I'm guilty of this! I certainly do try to break down specific points when it's feasible, but Crowfood's Daughter's videos are long and dense, and often interconnected with one another. It gets difficult unpacking it all, and even if I do so successfully, I don't want to come off as if any of it was my idea. Usually I build just a bit off of stuff I've taken from the video, or I try to make explicit some connections she lightly alludes to. It just makes more sense to me to make the full video available and then base my comment around that. But I get the frustration.

I recently reread some topic you posted I was excited to participate in.  Always easy to tell with me.  You have no difficulty expressing your ideas or sharing with others.  You, my friend, don't need to post anything extra to clarify.  You are articulate.  Who of us here now has an original idea?  I feel like a rock star when I can say I was there and read the original post.   Most of us have done the research in one way or another and recall fondly when Crowfood's Daughter was a regular contributor here.  You couldn't take credit for her ideas if you tried.   However, there were a lot of folks who enjoyed those conversations whether to contribute or read who linger and would enjoy more but have no focal point for it.  This is where people like you and three-eyed monkey and LynnS and sweetsunray and several other thinkers do your best work expanding those dark little places that need and grow in their illumination.    

Youtube is a tool with its own place.  It doesn't belong here.  I like to talk about things I hear there and sometimes do and credit where I heard it when it happens.  A newer poster gave me crap because I disagreed with Radio Westeros not that long ago.  Who made Radio Westeros an authority?   They certainly didn't.  Am I being fuddy duddy about this?  Maybe.  I don't mean to be.   

[AryaRegina]

Arya was not well liked on this forum a decade ago, from what I remember she wasn't hated as much as now , but more thought of as unimportant.

She's still not well liked, but now her haters are louder and, well,  ruder.
I know a lot of Arya fans have given up on this forum ( or never even joined in the first place, because this forum's view on Arya is kinda infamous at this point), or just stick to other topics.

I'm mostly a lurker myself, so I get it.

[Curled Finger]

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Arya’s an interesting case. She’s still a popular character, but there’s very little theorizing about her future.

BryndenBFish didn’t just quit the fandom; he deleted all of his accounts. If you didn’t start reading ASOIAF until this year, you would have no idea who he is, and that’s crazy to think about.

From what I can see, Bard, there is but lackluster interest in most endings to this tale since GOT ended.  It is akin to a collective fear of wishing.  That horrible remembering of Martin's post saying yes and no and no and no and yes and no and no and yes...regarding THAT ending.  I know I lost heart.  About a year after, maybe 2, I came peeking in the forum and saw kissedbyfire giving someone hell over something and missed this place.  I missed the rightness of being here and I missed being with people who understood that the books were not the show.  God love her, no one will ever mistake kissedbyfire as a show apologizer.  She didn't give a flying flip what HBO did, she knew Martin better and would kick my ass for falling for the okey doke.   I missed her and I missed the real story.  In and out, on and off I think this is the longest sustained come back I have clocked since 2019.   I am posting more and participating more, but these are not the conversations I really want to have which are ultimately end game and progression matters.  Let's talk about Arya coming home, getting out of Braavos, going to the Wall?  All of it.  I'm ready to burst for a Jamie topic and really get down into what LSH is up to really, what is martin doin with this thing here?  Maybe a smart writer like you will start something.

Yah, he was a lot of fun.  Not a Cast is Not as Fun.   I barely remember to listen anymore.  Odd move but he was always sort of an odd guy, too.  Hope he gives a hoot and holler if TWOW ever comes out.  

[The Bard of Banefort]

7 minutes ago, AryaRegina said:

Arya was not well liked on this forum a decade ago, from what I remember she wasn't hated as much as now , but more thought of as unimportant.

She's still not well liked, but now her haters are louder and, well,  ruder.
I know a lot of Arya fans have given up on this forum ( or never even joined in the first place, because this forum's view on Arya is kinda infamous at this point), or just stick to other topics.

I'm mostly a lurker myself, so I get it.

There used to be a lot of comparisons between Sansa and Arya, with people feeling the need to take sides. Now it’s Arya vs. Dany, since Dany stans are annoyed that Arya is still considered a hero but Dany isn’t.

[AryaRegina]

1 minute ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

There used to be a lot of comparisons between Sansa and Arya, with people feeling the need to take sides. Now it’s Arya vs. Dany, since Dany stans are annoyed that Arya is still considered a hero but Dany isn’t.

Both are heroes, both are against slavery, both care for the smallfolk, both know how it is to be hungry and homeless, and both are tiny girls bonded with huge beasts who they identify with... Dany and Arya should be friends:)

Also, I mostly read ASOIAF discussions on tumblr, and there Arya and Dany fans are usually overlapping, so it's strange to see it so different over here

[SeanF]

11 minutes ago, AryaRegina said:

Both are heroes, both are against slavery, both care for the smallfolk, both know how it is to be hungry and homeless, and both are tiny girls bonded with huge beasts who they identify with... Dany and Arya should be friends:)

Also, I mostly read ASOIAF discussions on tumblr, and there Arya and Dany fans are usually overlapping, so it's strange to see it so different over here

Ciri in The Witcher is basically Arya and Dany combined.  And she is adored by tfe Witcher fandom.

[Curled Finger]

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

Ciri in The Witcher is basically Arya and Dany combined.  And she is adored by tfe Witcher fandom.

You know, that's pretty good.  I got Arya vibes all over Ciri, particularly when she's a little older.  I thought I was nuts.  I will look for Dany next time I read through.  The Witcher is a great series of stories.  I feel a lot better now, thanks.  

[Daeron the Daring]

Nothing happened to the Bolton guard, and he deserved it anyway.

[frenin]

4 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Maegor the Male Feminist is one of the most genuinely bizarre takes I’ve seen, and I don’t even think it’s trolling. It’s espoused by Rhaenyra stans who think Maegor was progressive for temporarily naming Aerea his heir. (They seem to forget about him personally murdering two of his wives and forcing three others—including his niece—to marry him).

Funny I've seen quite the opposite, an obvious overlap between Maegor fan and Greens.

Not so surprising because contrarian gotta contrarian and honestly some of the comments could be signed for one of those alt grifters.

 

4 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

BryndenBFish didn’t just quit the fandom; he deleted all of his accounts. If you didn’t start reading ASOIAF until this year, you would have no idea who he is, and that’s crazy to think about.

Genuily do not know who the fella is lol.

 

 

[GZ Bloodraven]

10 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Maegor the Male Feminist is one of the most genuinely bizarre takes I’ve seen, and I don’t even think it’s trolling. It’s espoused by Rhaenyra stans who think Maegor was progressive for temporarily naming Aerea his heir. (They seem to forget about him personally murdering two of his wives and forcing three others—including his niece—to marry him).

I wondered why I, as a Rhaenyra stan, am shockingly charitable to Maegor even though I fully recognize that he earned his name. I think it's the part of me that really appreciates Logan Roy from Succession: needlessly and hopelessly insecure and hypermasculine and very competent at fucking people over to overcome that insecurity. 

9 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I’d still rather watch one of his videos than content from other “fandom famous” who, at this point, have more subscribers than he does.

Not Alt Shift X though, right? we all love alt shift x, right?

[Mithras]

On 3/30/2023 at 8:44 AM, SeanF said:

3.  Dany is *way* more popular than in 2011.   No discussion about her was complete without Apple Martini and Tze weighing in about her being the child of Satan.

And they were right lol.

[The Bard of Banefort]

I think the fandom’s relationship with Daenerys is similar to my relationship with HOTD lol. I like the show, but all the praise I see from people online saying how flawless and perfect it is (both among the YouTube bros and feminists who hate other shows for the same things they love HOTD for) kind of grinds my gears and makes me like the show less as a result. With Dany (more so the show than the books) we spent seven seasons being told that everything she did—burning people alive, dishing out cringe platitudes, essentially getting everything she wanted from S3-onward—was a sign of how she was the greatest person who ever walked the planet, and it was jarring.   Nobody likes being told that their eyes are lying to them. So when Dany went bananas in S8, it felt like she was finally a real person and not some wish fulfillment character that we were all compelled to like. Once the show stopped trying to convince us that Dany was perfect, it was easier just to see her as a person.

(And this is why I expect I’ll start defending HOTD if/when people turn  on it lol).

[SeanF]

6 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think the fandom’s relationship with Daenerys is similar to my relationship with HOTD lol. I like the show, but all the praise I see from people online saying how flawless and perfect it is (both among the YouTube bros and feminists who hate other shows for the same things they love HOTD for) kind of grinds my gears and makes me like the show less as a result. With Dany (more so the show than the books) we spent seven seasons being told that everything she did—burning people alive, dishing out cringe platitudes, essentially getting everything she wanted from S3-onward—was a sign of how she was the greatest person who ever walked the planet, and it was jarring.   Nobody likes being told that their eyes are lying to them. So when Dany went bananas in S8, it felt like she was finally a real person and not some wish fulfillment character that we were all compelled to like. Once the show stopped trying to convince us that Dany was perfect, it was easier just to see her as a person.

(And this is why I expect I’ll start defending HOTD if/when people turn  on it lol).

Pretty much.  After about the middle of Season 4, I was increasingly bored by (show) Daenerys.  During Season 8, I became a good deal more sympathetic to her.  Emilia Clarke was allowed to act, once again.

[The Bard of Banefort]

6 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Pretty much.  After about the middle of Season 4, I was increasingly bored by (show) Daenerys.  During Season 8, I became a good deal more sympathetic to her.  Emilia Clarke was allowed to act, once again.

Yeah, I thought Emilia gave her best performance in S8. If they wanted someone stoic, they should have gone with a different actress. When Emilia tried to be stoic, she just looked like she had acid reflux. 

[SeanF]

13 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Yeah, I thought Emilia gave her best performance in S8. If they wanted someone stoic, they should have gone with a different actress. When Emilia tried to be stoic, she just looked like she had acid reflux. 

Emilia, who always enjoyed the books, said she often wanted to inject more warmth and humanity into Daenerys, only to be told she had to be emotionless.

That said, I don’t think the showrunners *intended* Daenerys to be seen more sympathetically in Season Shit.