Mental Wellbeing 3 - Can we fix it?

[drawkcabi]

Today, for the first time in 14+ months...

I left my house.

I went to a doctor's appointment. My GP is going to prescribe me back on my mental health meds.

I'm exhausted mentally and physically. I physically hurt...everywhere. That is what, for me, feeds the mental side of my aversion to going out.

But enough was enough, I had to go.

The doc did an exam and took some blood and gave me some new prescriptions. We'll go from there.

BP was 144/81 and I'm already on 2 meds for hypertension. But they took it again towards the end of the appointment and it was 132/75.

Also, I've lost 70 lbs since 14 months ago.

Unfortunately, most of that was due to how bad I've been feeling. But some of it has been from being disciplined on my diet during the times I was feeling better. 

I accomplished something today.

Edited March 13 by drawkcabi

[A True Kaniggit]

Edit: I spoke with my maybe niece. She was crying over teenage drama.

Edit 2: Oh. I dug deeper. It wasn't regular teenage drama. Her friend was threatening suicide 

The niece says she talked her friend into getting help.

Edited March 17 by A True Kaniggit

[Toth]

Okay, maybe I'm just stating the obvious and you guys will have a laugh at me for being late to the party, but after some intense weeks of self-discovery, I'm wondering whether I've figured out a way to become more confident in social interactions.

So the thing is, I spent a lot of time fantasizing about what life I wish for myself and what kind of person I want to be in that life. I saw myself being curious about people, I saw myself listening and supporting them in their struggles, I saw myself doing acts of kindness to them. I saw myself valuing open communication and mutually reciprocating relationships above all else and saw myself in situations emphasizing that openly. I know it may sound weird, but I had to tell myself I am a good person at heart, despite my anxieties and flaws and fears and that people should be able to see that and acknowledge that if I act like that person in my fantasy. And then... realized there is nothing stopping me from acting like this anyway, despite not "being there" mentally yet. Despite all the things weighing me down. And that was when suddenly I felt a small surge in confidence. When I declared "I am now acting as if I was that person", my posture changed, I was able to make eye contact with strangers without flinching away (though still hoping I didn't make them uncomfortable...), I was reflexively interacting with people while shopping for groceries, saying things beyond the bare minimum. Still not much, mind you. And granted, I haven't really done anything of the stuff I set out for the Easter holiday yet. But I feel like I've figured out how I could act once I've manage to push myself out the door.

Also... fair enough. I guess I have the advantage of always being very... functional. I am haunted by my ostracized past and extremely self-conscious of my for my age very problematic home situation I can't really change as of yet. Still got through university and got a technically very socially demanding job as a teacher because I have created a "professional self". My professional self can do what he does because I just love my subjects and I can focus on trying to mentor students on what's important to succeed. However... that doesn't change that I come across as very robotic and fall apart in any purely social interaction where I can't just leverage my professional self. I have just... too much fear to show vulnerability because I'm always thinking people would drop me if they got a glimpse of how much baggage I was constantly carrying around. My reflex therefore was always to put off most of my socializing until I "fixed myself". Taking quite literally the constant advice I am seeing that you can't make friends without loving yourself. I hate myself, so I can't. Not yet. But all I ended up with was even more intense loneliness, because I never learned how to stay in contact with people in Real Life, kept withdrawing and kept treating opportunities to socialize more as social experiments to prove to myself that I still could, notably leaving the interactions with more regrets, awkward failures and at most shallow small-talk.

But now... I... all of a sudden realized that maybe I don't necessarily need to overcome my fears and anxieties. I was always scoffing at the "fake it until you make it" recommendation, but I guess I am now truly seeing what is actually meant with it. Similarly to my professional self, I should create a "social self" and just act out the way I want to act, disassociating my vulnerable, self-conscious, self-hating true self from the equation. Does that make sense? Is it wise to do that? I guess I am worried that I could tire myself out eventually.

[Phylum of Alexandria]

5 hours ago, Toth said:

But now... I... all of a sudden realized that maybe I don't necessarily need to overcome my fears and anxieties. I was always scoffing at the "fake it until you make it" recommendation, but I guess I am now truly seeing what is actually meant with it. Similarly to my professional self, I should create a "social self" and just act out the way I want to act, disassociating my vulnerable, self-conscious, self-hating true self from the equation. Does that make sense? Is it wise to do that? I guess I am worried that I could tire myself out eventually.

When I was in high school, I had a similar epiphany, and it really changed how I navigated my social world. I was a shy introvert with not-great self-esteem, struggling to understand my place in the world. At some point I realized that most people around me were dealing with insecurity in some way, even the people who outwardly seemed so confident. So I "faked" it more, and lo and behold, people opened up more. Why hadn't I realized that it was so easy?

It took a while for me to really learn the ropes of our extraverted adult culture (small talk, networking, flirting), but I got there. I'm still a somewhat shy introvert, and I still need my time alone, but I actually enjoy chatting with strangers (I actually miss it, as it's harder now that everyone stares into their smart phones). 

Your realization is a great first step. Sometimes your own thoughts are what's keeping you down, so it's best to act first and let your thoughts play catch up. Or yes, even "fake it til you make it." It's not magic, but it's a very promising path forward.

[Larry of the Lawn]

6 hours ago, Toth said:

Okay, maybe I'm just stating the obvious and you guys will have a laugh at me for being late to the party, but after some intense weeks of self-discovery, I'm wondering whether I've figured out a way to become more confident in social interactions.

So the thing is, I spent a lot of time fantasizing about what life I wish for myself and what kind of person I want to be in that life. I saw myself being curious about people, I saw myself listening and supporting them in their struggles, I saw myself doing acts of kindness to them. I saw myself valuing open communication and mutually reciprocating relationships above all else and saw myself in situations emphasizing that openly. I know it may sound weird, but I had to tell myself I am a good person at heart, despite my anxieties and flaws and fears and that people should be able to see that and acknowledge that if I act like that person in my fantasy. And then... realized there is nothing stopping me from acting like this anyway, despite not "being there" mentally yet. Despite all the things weighing me down. And that was when suddenly I felt a small surge in confidence. When I declared "I am now acting as if I was that person", my posture changed, I was able to make eye contact with strangers without flinching away (though still hoping I didn't make them uncomfortable...), I was reflexively interacting with people while shopping for groceries, saying things beyond the bare minimum. Still not much, mind you. And granted, I haven't really done anything of the stuff I set out for the Easter holiday yet. But I feel like I've figured out how I could act once I've manage to push myself out the door.

Also... fair enough. I guess I have the advantage of always being very... functional. I am haunted by my ostracized past and extremely self-conscious of my for my age very problematic home situation I can't really change as of yet. Still got through university and got a technically very socially demanding job as a teacher because I have created a "professional self". My professional self can do what he does because I just love my subjects and I can focus on trying to mentor students on what's important to succeed. However... that doesn't change that I come across as very robotic and fall apart in any purely social interaction where I can't just leverage my professional self. I have just... too much fear to show vulnerability because I'm always thinking people would drop me if they got a glimpse of how much baggage I was constantly carrying around. My reflex therefore was always to put off most of my socializing until I "fixed myself". Taking quite literally the constant advice I am seeing that you can't make friends without loving yourself. I hate myself, so I can't. Not yet. But all I ended up with was even more intense loneliness, because I never learned how to stay in contact with people in Real Life, kept withdrawing and kept treating opportunities to socialize more as social experiments to prove to myself that I still could, notably leaving the interactions with more regrets, awkward failures and at most shallow small-talk.

But now... I... all of a sudden realized that maybe I don't necessarily need to overcome my fears and anxieties. I was always scoffing at the "fake it until you make it" recommendation, but I guess I am now truly seeing what is actually meant with it. Similarly to my professional self, I should create a "social self" and just act out the way I want to act, disassociating my vulnerable, self-conscious, self-hating true self from the equation. Does that make sense? Is it wise to do that? I guess I am worried that I could tire myself out eventually.

Just wanted to say that this sounds really positive, and I think you're onto something that is both healthy and going to be rewarding for you, probably with some pain and suffering too, but sounds like you've become pretty competent at handling that.

Next part is something that worked for me in what sounds like a similar situation, take it with a grain of salt.

When you mention"disassociating my vulnerable, self-conscious, self-hating self", my totally non-professional advice would be sure, do that in the moment if that's what works for you.  And maybe later, or before hand, just acknowledge those feelings, and maybe think of that as your childhood self, or your little Toth, and tell him that it's ok, that he's safe, that he's a good and kind person, and that he deserves to be treated well, and then show him that by following up on this new revelation.  

Hang in there, and good work!

[Kalbear]

8 hours ago, Toth said:

But now... I... all of a sudden realized that maybe I don't necessarily need to overcome my fears and anxieties. I was always scoffing at the "fake it until you make it" recommendation, but I guess I am now truly seeing what is actually meant with it. Similarly to my professional self, I should create a "social self" and just act out the way I want to act, disassociating my vulnerable, self-conscious, self-hating true self from the equation. Does that make sense? Is it wise to do that? I guess I am worried that I could tire myself out eventually.

It is wise - in fact, it's one of the only things that works - but it does tire you out. You do need some 'real' time. It's very similar to being an introvert; you can feel like you're extroverted in the moment, you can be outgoing and even do it autonomously (like, say, if you're drunk or stoned) - but afterwards you can need some breaks. This is also similar to masking and has similar pros and cons. You can take it further and work on improving things at a more base level, but being functional and the person you want to be in the situations you want to be in is far better than not. 

To sidetrack things, I've started doing the Sparavato treatment (ketamine nasal spray). The short term thought is apparently I really need to get high more often. 

[Toth]

4 hours ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

When I was in high school, I had a similar epiphany, and it really changed how I navigated my social world. I was a shy introvert with not-great self-esteem, struggling to understand my place in the world. At some point I realized that most people around me were dealing with insecurity in some way, even the people who outwardly seemed so confident. So I "faked" it more, and lo and behold, people opened up more. Why hadn't I realized that it was so easy?

And you kept that secret to yourself?!?

But yeah, I... knew I am so damn late. I really think it was a mistake to treat "fake it until you make it" as... trying to fake confidence from my own perspective and experiment with small stuff like focusing on smiling or focusing on active listening techniques. That was always an approach coming from trying to improve my impression while still being me... which... was already terribly exhausting and never seemed to amount to much progress. Mostly because I at the same time always think I have to keep my distance and not take risks or else I end up exposing my anxiety. Which naturally just causes a

But yeah, congratulations that it worked for you!

3 hours ago, Larry of the Lawn said:

When you mention"disassociating my vulnerable, self-conscious, self-hating self", my totally non-professional advice would be sure, do that in the moment if that's what works for you.  And maybe later, or before hand, just acknowledge those feelings, and maybe think of that as your childhood self, or your little Toth, and tell him that it's ok, that he's safe, that he's a good and kind person, and that he deserves to be treated well, and then show him that by following up on this new revelation.  

Thanks very much! Though I must admit, I... couldn't really understand this part. I mean, where my inner self then stands in terms of myself. The thing is, as it is, I'd just put on another mask, but I don't think I could become that mask full-time. Not when I have to put it down at home or else couldn't put up with my mother without trying to express myself and causing havoc.

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

It is wise - in fact, it's one of the only things that works - but it does tire you out. You do need some 'real' time. It's very similar to being an introvert; you can feel like you're extroverted in the moment, you can be outgoing and even do it autonomously (like, say, if you're drunk or stoned) - but afterwards you can need some breaks. This is also similar to masking and has similar pros and cons. You can take it further and work on improving things at a more base level, but being functional and the person you want to be in the situations you want to be in is far better than not. 

Yeah, I suspect that will be the case. As I've said, I haven't really gotten to put it to the test. Initially I wanted to use the Easter holiday to go as much to Meetup events as possible, but of course my mother had gotten me sick and now I was stuck at home and then the weather changed. Hopefully tomorrow I can make a small trip. However for this I just wanted to go to a park and read and well, just soak up the atmosphere being among people again. Hopefully without coughing like crazy.

Also not sure I could put the nasal spray onto the recommendation list...

Edited March 29 by Toth

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Sigh, step-dad had to be carried out again after falling. He spent a day laying on the floor. I don't want to wish for his death, but nobody can take this anymore. It would be one thing if he was trying, but he's accepted defeat and is making it as hard as he can on all of us without a care. 

[Madame deVenoge]

@drawkcabi @Toth - omg! Both of you guys are doing so well!!! I’m very happy for both of you!! Positive developments, for sure!!

[Poobah]

I've had a few setbacks the past couple of weeks and my depression is doing it's best to drag me all the way down to the bottom of the hill.

I've picked up some kinda unidentified injury to my foot from all the exercise and yoga that's really worrying me but I haven't managed to contact a doctor yet. It was getting better but I forced myself to go out to try and get out of the depression spiral and managed to trigger it again, which of course made me feel worse, like even when I'm trying to help myself things get worse anyway so yeah. 

Also I had some shitty goings on in a group I was in in a game. I don't want to get on to the nerdy details but basically of put a lot of time and effort in to the group to help friends who were in it - I'd already killed the boss and gotten the achievement the group wants before so I didn't need to be there and was there for the social aspect and because I enjoy helping and teaching others - and there had been a bunch of struggles with it but we were making progress. Cut to a couple of the players who were already causing me headaches quitting, followed by a couple of others who it was more of a surprise to lose, this leads to my friend the ostensible leader of the group needing to find new players - I say ostensible because while he organised the group I ended up doing all the leading - which was fine until he blindsided me by telling me he had to move the timeslot for the group to 4am my time, effectively kicking me out of the group. His reasoning seemed to be that that was more convenient for him and I didn't need to be there anyway so why would I care. I feel very betrayed and upset by this and haven't spoken to him for a week; he already knew I was having some bad mental health stuff going on and clearly didn't give a fuck or care about / consider my feelings or investment in the group over his own utility. 

The first and most major trigger that's gone off on me the past few weeks has been upheaval with my disability/unemployment benefits. This stuff is an enormous anxiety trigger for me. The system is designed to be hostile to claimants because the Tory government which has been waging war on the disabled and mentally ill for the past decade would be very happy if I were to kill myself because they're all callous fiends who'd happily kill any number of us poors if it made them slightly richer. So fuck all of them, fuck the system, and fuck me too I guess. Anyway the whole thing is awful, incredibly stressful, makes me feel like absolute shit and drags me through making me focus on all the ways in which I'm less functional than I want to be, and then - par for the course - denies me anyway to force me to give up or appeal which would be more stress or course. It makes me so fucking angry because I was actually doing much better until I got the phonecall which kicked this off. So much better! If they actually want me to become a functional all they need to do is leave me the fuck alone to progress and heal at my own pace with the measly pittance I'm entitled to so I can live, but apparently that's too much to ask for. 

I went out to a social event last night and that's the final thing I want to talk about I suppose. I always find these things so bittersweet and difficult to manage my reacting to / framing of events. Interacting with people in real life is good in moderation, and when I get out to things in my social circle I do generally have positive interactions with people. I'm fairly confident in saying that I'm well liked and considered to be a good friend/person to be around, but that's also sorta the problem. I feel invisible - I'm polite and kind and considerate and everyone always says these things like they're compliments - which yeah I know they are, and I do highly value good/ethical behaviour and try very hard to be a good person but I also kinda hate that about myself. To paraphrase: nice people finish last. I'm too much of a pleaser and my consideration of others needs and happiness never feels like it's reciprocated. I'm nice to have around but it feels like nobody is gonna go out of their way for me, or notice if I disappear, they all have their own relationships and lives anyway so why would they? I am being a little harsh, I have made a small number of deeper friendships, people who do actually seem to care about me, and I value those friendships highly, but in a world of confident socially skilled people me being able to develop meaningful friendships over a period of months / years with people who are already in committed relationships does not actually help me to be less lonely, which is the core ache that's killing me here. I feel the weight of it crushing me, especially when I stop and think of spending the next 5, 10, 40 years with it - my thoughts tell me "you're gonna die alone" and then I want it to be sooner rather than later. People always say to go out and meet people, but increasing I feel like the ones saying that are the socially skilled/successful fuckers happily arranging a date with the new person we both met 2 days ago I'm still feeling them out. 

Ultimately I reflect that I'm the problem, that I need to change who I am if I want to be happier but I'm not sure I can in ways that will help me get what I want. I try and try and try and I do feel like I am a better, healthier, stronger person in many ways than I was in the past, but none of this helps with my core problems, and some life event or other always knocks me back so I never feel like I get anywhere, and I'm back to invoking Sisyphus. 

[Toth]

20 hours ago, Poobah said:

Ultimately I reflect that I'm the problem, that I need to change who I am if I want to be happier but I'm not sure I can in ways that will help me get what I want. I try and try and try and I do feel like I am a better, healthier, stronger person in many ways than I was in the past, but none of this helps with my core problems, and some life event or other always knocks me back so I never feel like I get anywhere, and I'm back to invoking Sisyphus. 

This feeling of feeling like Sisyphus really resonates deeply with me and I can only encourage you to scroll up to my Eureka moment earlier. I think it is important to acknowledge that there will be no magical moment where you tell yourself "Great! I'm fixed now! Now I can finally do the things to make myself happy that I have put off all this time." I don't know how it is for you, and granted, it sounds like you are actually better integrated into having a social life than I am, but I am quite aware that even when I was nice and considerate, I always kept some degree of distance for fear of letting them see how troubled I actually am. Which naturally affects my posture and and makes me shy away from opening up or even just grasping opportunities to know people closer. Why would I ask them anything about themselves when I don't know them too well... wouldn't they ask me something first if they were truly interested? You see how that automatically creates distance.

So for me, I think it is equally important to acknowledge that, while it is true that you can't just switch off your fears and anxieties, that at the same time fears and anxieties are things that only exist for you in your head and not necessarily in the image other people have of you. So for me, when I decide to create a "social self" that I let interact with people in a way I wish I could have always interacted with them, I certainly hope that many of my insecurities get smoothed over and I at least manage to get a foot into the door. Also I have to say, it's not just a role to play, it is still a part of me. That's why it is important to think about your core values and what you yourself envision you to be in different circumstances. How do you see your ideal self interact with people, both platonically and romantically? How do you see your ideal self express their interest in other peoples' lives? How do you see your ideal self react to people displaying different values to your own? How do you see your ideal self resolve conflicts? Having a guideline like this at the very least gives a bit of security to cling to.

[Tears of Lys]

@Toth I hope being able to "vent" your feelings to this board helps!  You know that most people are unsure of themselves and curious about how they present to others.  Actually, as you get older, you worry less about how others think about you and just try to make it through your life as best you can.  

Anyway,we'll always be here - the Old Gods and New willing.  

[Toth]

On 4/9/2024 at 7:45 PM, Tears of Lys said:

@Toth I hope being able to "vent" your feelings to this board helps!  You know that most people are unsure of themselves and curious about how they present to others.  Actually, as you get older, you worry less about how others think about you and just try to make it through your life as best you can.  

Anyway,we'll always be here - the Old Gods and New willing.  

I'm... hoping of course that it helped... but sometimes I'm not sure I've not prolonged my downwards spirals with all the hours mentally churning through the stuff I want to yell into the void... If I had shrugged and moved on I maybe would have been able to... or exploded at some point, I don't know.

Though I have to note I'm conflicted as to how to proceed at my home situation at the moment. I feel my... attempt at creating a social me stands in conflict, obviously, with the sorry state of communication at home and I wonder whether I have to expand and adjust it to compensate.

The thing is, for about a year I'm essentially giving my mother the silent treatment. Ever since I made the mistake of tentatively trying to express how I feel discouraged by her reflex to talk me out of anything I want to do and she absolutely exploded, trashing the house and threatening to destroy all my stuff while I'm at work for hours. Ever since then I just nod and say yes to anything, but otherwise try to get away with saying nothing at all. So far, she hadn't really minded it much for some reason, but now that I've spent the last two weekends completely outside the house and refuse to tell her where I was, she is getting really irritated and goes on regular rants about how much I must suck at my job if I am acting in front of students the same way I am acting towards her. At the same time, I guess partly now because of my renewed vigor to focus on attention, but also because I had two weeks of holiday while she didn't, I noticed just how extreme her habit of nonstop talking is. During the weekdays, she's wake up at 7 am and from then on started to talk to me as I was awoken by the cat anyway. And she continues no matter where she is, whether at the desk in my room, in the kitchen, in the bath or her bedroom, she is constantly commenting on every thing that is going through her mind, but still regularly expecting me to respond and getting upset when I don't. She does this until she leaves the house at 9:30 am and left me an anxious mess in that entire time. I then managed to have something of a productive day, but once she returns, she immediately continues and needs to tell me every little bit of what happened her today and why she hates her boss and all her coworkers, while I just sit frozen at the computer, having to close all my tabs and listen until she wanders off again to curse in the kitchen.

In a way, I find it really sad. Clearly I'm her only confidante. After all, she has no friends or family she is on speaking terms either. I did once suggest to try and find a hobby, but she scoffed at the idea... And yet, as written above, she now seems to realize how distant I am gets mad about it. Well, on the other hand to say a positive thing she did, last Sunday she must have noticed how distressed I was when she all of a sudden wanted me to cook (which she usually never does, rarely even touching whatever I cook, complaining about me using ingredients she doesn't like) and I was panicking because I wanted to go out to a board game night. Eventually after I froze up and started cursing myself, she told me to at least get the garbage out on my way out, essentially giving me a push to do so. I was an hour late, but at least I went...

... so now I'm wondering whether I should pretend I am on good terms with her and talk normally to avoid the tense atmosphere at home to get worse. On the other hand, I just feel constantly miserable because I know my ideal self could talk to her about my sense of suffocation without making her go off... but then again, she has such a short fuse when she thinks I am acting to betray her that I absolutely can't risk it.

[A wilding]

On 4/11/2024 at 8:18 PM, Toth said:

... so now I'm wondering whether I should pretend I am on good terms with her and talk normally to avoid the tense atmosphere at home to get worse. On the other hand, I just feel constantly miserable because I know my ideal self could talk to her about my sense of suffocation without making her go off... but then again, she has such a short fuse when she thinks I am acting to betray her that I absolutely can't risk it.

Just to let you know, that bit about your "ideal self" is nonsense. Your mother is controlling you by throwing a tantrum whenever you try to go against her wants. That is her, not you, and there is nothing you can do to stop her reacting like that. All you can do is chose how you respond to her tantrums (or leave).

You did not ask for advice, and I know you have heard it before, but any relationship where there is no open communication and one party has to walk on eggshells all the time so as to not trigger the anger of the other person is an abusive one. Frankly, your posts have given me new understanding of how someone in an abusive relationship has their sense of normal skewed by it and is reduced into constantly doubting themselves.

[BigFatCoward]

@TothI honestly think at least 50% of the problems you think you have would immediately disappear if you just moved out. 

Even if it's financially debilitating you will be so much happier. 

Edited April 14 by BigFatCoward