Watch, Watched, Watching: Start another thread already

[Werthead]

On 5/30/2023 at 8:05 PM, Raja said:

Well, I'm on my re-watch of Lost and have been enjoying it but as a Lindelof fan this was quite disheartening to read ( and please don't come at me with 'this is normal'  or this shit doesn't matter)

At least Lindelof seems to be reckoning with some of this stuff based on the article

 

Javier Grillo-Marxuach has an interesting addendum here.

It's a mega-long read, but it's also well worth reading his hugely in-depth account of working on the first two seasons, which is easily the most fascinating behind-the-scenes document about the making of the show. It already set up Damon as someone happy to play into the "unstable genius" persona, and how Cuse was basically brought on board to ensure the show actually got made whilst Damon was going through whatever bullshit he was on that week (including just flouncing off the lot for a week, declaring he was leaving for good, only to come back when Cuse told him they were working on a bullshit story about Hurley becoming a hypnotist), and the rest of the writers' room were just plugging away in the background, often without direct involvement from the two showrunners.

I think it's clear that the show had a major structural defect in that they were never supposed to have 14 regulars, they were aiming for 7-8 and the rest got added because the auditions were so fruitful and JJ Abrams and Lindelof were just saying, "That's a great actor, no good for the role, but we'll create a new character for them." I believe Sawyer came about after Josh Holloway auditioned for Jack and Jin and Sun because Yunjin Kim auditioned for Kate. With 7 regulars, each gets 3 flashbacks a season, which is nice and simple, but with 14, a lot of them only got 1 episode a season whilst the ultra-boring Jack got 3. Michael didn't get a flashback episode at all until Season 2, which is pretty ludicrous given that Perrineau was one of the highest-profile people in the cast.

2 hours ago, Ran said:

When she talks of Michelle Rodriguez getting written out, she makes no reference to the fact that in that era Rodriguez had had ... well, quite a few run ins with the law. Her DUI simply capped off a number of other traffic violations on Hawaii, and not only put her in jail on Hawaii but also in California afterwards because she had violated probation for a prior DUI plea in that state. More notably, Cynthia Watros (Libby) also had a DUI right around that time (in fact, she was arrested within 15 minutes of Rodriguez)... and she was killed off in the very same episode. Why not mention Watros suffering the same fate on the show, in the same episode, after the same event having happened off set? It just seems weird to make it about a lack of "sympathy" for Rodriguez.

It's worth noting the lengthy discussions about how Rodriguez got racial comments about her arrest from the writers, with people saying she was going to be okay in jail because she could sell Watros for favours and various Latino stereotypes etc.

Rodriguez getting written out was also somewhat odd because she was a shit hot property at the time, after Fast and the Furious and the critical reception to Girlfight. There's varying stories about the length of time of her supposed tenure on Lost, with some statements saying she was only ever going to be in Season 2 but some indications her story was originally going to extend into Season 3. There's also another story that Rodriguez enjoyed her time on the show (and Hawaii) more than expected and asked to stay on, but it was too late because her final scenes had already been written. The timeline of all of this is pretty confused, and it was really weird at the time (I remember it being discussed here!), especially with Libby being written out very clearly ahead of time, given all the setup for her stuff with Hurley (like being in the same mental institution) which was immediately sunk without a trace.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Werthead

[RumHam]

6 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Michael didn't get a flashback episode at all until Season 2, which is pretty ludicrous given that Perrineau was one of the highest-profile people in the cast.

That's crazy, I thought you had to be mistaken. I could have sworn we got some of his backstory with Walt and the mom in season one. I guess the first two seasons blur together a bit. 

[Werthead]

Just now, RumHam said:

That's crazy, I thought you had to be mistaken. I could have sworn we got some of his backstory with Walt and the mom in season one. I guess the first two seasons blur together a bit. 

He did have some material in Special, but that Walt's flashback episode, not his. He was just in it a fair bit (obviously). And he also had a couple of flashback scenes in Exodus, but the entire cast did for that episode.

[RumHam]

9 minutes ago, Werthead said:

He did have some material in Special, but that Walt's flashback episode, not his. He was just in it a fair bit (obviously). And he also had a couple of flashback scenes in Exodus, but the entire cast did for that episode.

Oooh, ok. so I'm not totally off base. Thanks. 

[dbunting]

Finished S3 of Ted Lasso  it was a good series that had some really good spots and less duds. Wrapped up well after just three seasons so that is good.

Hannah Waddington did great in this series, especially this last episode or two.  Shame shame shame....

[Ramsay B.]

I finally watched Magnolia. The runtime made me put it off for so long. It was very good. Basically all Boogie Nights alums and Cruise, and they all killed it. Although I’m kinda torn on whether Melora Walter’s performance as Claudia was genius or just awkward.

The ending sure was something. Wasn’t expecting anything like that. I also found it interesting how PTA took one of the best sequences from Boogie Nights and basically made it into an entire film, or at least a big part of it. 

Chimp Empire on Netflix is great. I have one episode to go and just wish there was more than 4 eps total. A must for nature doc lovers.

I also just finished season 2 of Succession. It’s lived up to the hype so far. Just trying to avoid spoilers now.

[DMC]

Just saw this Lost thing skimming over the thread.  Haven't read the article, and I respect Mo Ryan and used to read her habitually, but as others have mentioned, my understanding with Rodriguez and Watros being fired was because of their drinking which led to legal troubles.  That's, ya know, verifiable. 

As is, as far as I can tell, Akinnuoye-Agbaje asking to be written off the show.  That's really very clear with Eko's character in Season 3 - that there were more plans for him.  From what I recall Lindelof said he planned on Eko being a "spiritual foil" of some sort to Locke, which clearly is where it was going.

Obviously that doesn't excuse the racial comments, but I don't think you can establish any racial pattern of writing off people of color on the show based on those three.  Nor Michael/Walt.  Frankly that whole line of argument is pretty absurd considering [ETA - Spoilers from the final season]:

Spoiler

how much the Jin/Sun romance is emphasized throughout the entirety of the show along with Hugo taking over the whole damn island.

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by DMC

[DMC]

5 hours ago, Werthead said:

Michael didn't get a flashback episode at all until Season 2, which is pretty ludicrous given that Perrineau was one of the highest-profile people in the cast.

That's not really true.  Season 1 Episode 14 "Special" is both a Michael and Walt episode.

[Nictarion]

3 hours ago, Ramsay B. said:

Although I’m kinda torn on whether Melora Walter’s performance as Claudia was genius or just awkward.

I think she was great in it. Her little smile at John C. Reilly at the end always hits me right in the feels. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

27 minutes ago, DMC said:

Just saw this Lost thing skimming over the thread.  Haven't read the article, and I respect Mo Ryan and used to read her habitually, but as others have mentioned, my understanding with Rodriguez and Watros being fired was because of their drinking which led to legal troubles.  That's, ya know, verifiable. 

Her Wiki page is quiet the read. I thought she was in a lot more stuff, but as mentioned, she's had her issues. Idk how you get expelled from school five times. 

[DMC]

TBC, I've seen a handful of interviews with Michelle Rodriguez.  She seems like an incredibly awesome person and someone I totally would love to hangout and/or drink with.  And if I was in charge, I absolutely wouldn't have fired her.  But, to be fair, that's also part and parcel why I don't think any studio in their right mind would ever give me responsibility for running a major television show.

[RumHam]

This is not exactly an original complaint, but I always thought Magnolia was an overlong overrated version of Short Cuts. 

Parts of it are unquestionably great, but others don't land and it's so long. I'd call it an interesting failure. 

[VigoTheCarpathian]

On 5/30/2023 at 3:52 PM, RumHam said:

I know it's not for everyone, but the new season of I Think You Should Leave is out. The computer game with the eggs 

We should be able to watch a little porn at work

Edited June 1, 2023 by VigoTheCarpathian

[RumHam]

4 minutes ago, VigoTheCarpathian said:

We should be to watch a little porn at work

I'm not really a .gif / meme guy. but I desperatly need one of that egg dude. 

I cannot recall the last time so few frames of animation made me laugh so hard. AOL days. and I loved that his interface was a weird version of like macs from the 90's.

YES

 

[Heartofice]

I think you should leave is probably one of the few shows that gives me hope that comedy is not dead! I fucking love it even if it’s often a painful watch.

I always think about the girls posting on Instagram sketch:

“Eating crap with these sacks of shit, if they died tomorrow nobody would shed a tear”

 

[Raja]

11 hours ago, Werthead said:

Javier Grillo-Marxuach has an interesting addendum here.

Yeah, I read some of that but haven't finished it yet.

It's quite disappointing to see the overt racist and sexist comments made behind the scenes and it has certainly had an effect on my viewing of the show, especially as Lost was the first proper show I watched quite consistently. That bit about ABC chasing Perrineau for a retraction is quite gross too.

As an aside, I don't really think you can use Hugo's ending as much evidence for anything really given it's like 1 scene at the end and it's stuff said as opposed to shown on camera.

It's a shame really as I've really been enjoying the show, but Ryan's piece really puts a stain on it for me. If you take Lindelof at face value for his words, at least it seems that he's realized that the kind of showrunner/ manager he was was wrong ( though of course, he could just be saying that to save his career) but Cuse's response is just so bad. 

I know Lindelof responded in the piece, but I really hope he says *something* or it would just really suck.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Raja

[ithanos]

Just got back from Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse. It was simply amazing and spectacular - puns intended but fully warranted. Recommended.

The plethora of animation styles can be daunting to the senses, it does run 2hrs 20min, and you end up welcoming passages spent in any verse just to catch your breath and rest your eyes. I won't delve into the plot here, will save that for the old Spider-Verse thread if I can find it. Before I forget, the soundtrack is lit, see it in a cinema with a good audio system.  

My viewing enjoyment, and that of many sitting near me, was spoiled by a trio of kids seated in the centre who were restless throughout - taking phone calls from their moms and using the torch on their phones to search for items dropped. Thankfully the cinema sound system was loud and the movie made use of it so I managed to filter them out for the most part, but I'll have to plan a second viewing to get a better experience.

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

As an aside, I don't really think you can use Hugo's ending as much evidence for anything really given it's like 1 scene at the end and it's stuff said as opposed to shown on camera.

That's really not the point.  You could definitely say Sayid is marginalized in the final season (almost literally).  And even Jin and Sun.  But Hugo is not - indeed he's deliberately elevated throughout the final season from a secondary character to one of the "A-team."  Really you could say this started in the back half of Season 5, but that's why I used it as an example.

Anyway, read Ryan's piece.  I agree that atmosphere clearly sounds very disappointing, but the piece/chapter is also obviously slanted.  Couldn't believe by the end of reading it Lindelof gave her quotes and she doesn't even bother to put them in until the last few paragraphs.  That's just bad writing. 

Always shared Perrineau's disappointment in how Micheal/Walt was resolved.  Definitely wish that ended differently.  Always thought it was interesting they really make the mother (Tamara Taylor) out to be the clear bad guy there.  It's hard not to hate her.

[Raja]

10 minutes ago, DMC said:

But Hugo is not -

I'll have to watch the final season again to see if I'm misremembering as to me his end seemed more of a throwaway thing as opposed to something that was built up, but again it's been a long time since I've seen the last two seasons so I'll have to get back to you on that.

12 minutes ago, DMC said:

That's just bad writing.

This I disagree with. In pieces like this, quotes from the person whom the piece is about usually come towards the end/ latter half of the piece and I think that's pretty much what happens here

As for slanted - sure, that's what her book is about, but I don't think it changes anything in terms of the comments made & the behaviour of Lindelof & Cuse.

And I say this as someone who is a big fan of a lot of Lindelof's work, pretty much made everyonoe I know what The Leftovers so it sucks.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Raja said:

I'll have to watch the final season again to see if I'm misremembering as to me his end seemed more of a throwaway thing as opposed to something that was built up, but again it's been a long time since I've seen the last two seasons so I'll have to get back to you on that.

I'll spoiler tag it since you're rewatching in case you want to come back to this later (which is fine).  But Hugo is arguably the main character of the final season, or at least the main driver of the plot..

Spoiler

Based on directions from Jacob, he's the one that decides they need to go to the temple.  When they get there, he's the one that saves them from being summarily executed.  Shortly thereafter, he's the one (again on Jacob's instructions) that takes Jack to the lighthouse.  When they all meet up back at the original camp, he's the one that convinces Richard to come back -- and gives Richard his motivation for the remainder of the season.  After Ilana blows up, he's the one that destroys the remaining explosives in the Black Rock.  Then, he's the one who decides they should meet/confront Locke.

That's..most of the season up until the final three/four episodes (not counting Across the Sea).  There are jokes/apprehension about Hugo taking on such a leadership role - Miles literally says as much in I think the third episode of the season - but it doesn't change the fact Hugo has a larger role among any of the heroes other than Jack in the final season.  Certainly a larger role than Kate and Sawyer - as well as Ben's redemption (which is one of my favorite parts of the final season).  Hell, regarding Ben's redemption, Hugo is the one that insists they need to save him when he's trapped by a falling tree in the finale and then, ya know, employs him.  Even in the flash-sideways, it's Hugo who Desmond employs to help corral the entire group.

 

13 minutes ago, Raja said:

This I disagree with. In pieces like this, quotes from the person whom the piece is about usually come towards the end/ latter half of the piece and I think that's pretty much what happens here

It's clearly burying the lede.  I don't care if you're writing about Charles Manson, the House GOP, or just a child custody battle.  If the main subject of your piece gives you quotes, you don't leave them out until the last 5% of the chapter.  If she was a journalist that'd be the equivalent of malpractice.