“Have you ever killed someone off that you later realized you needed?”

[The Duck and the Field]

I saw GRRM quoted as having said this in a conversation with the writer of the "Outlander" series in which he was discussing how he had written himself "into a corner" before Winds. Who do you think is the character that GRRM is now regretting having killed off? Ser Aerys Oakheart? Maester Aemon? Jon Snow?

[sifth]

I'd laugh, if it ended up being Jon Snow.

[Aebram]

At the end of Dance, Jon Snow is wounded but still alive. So it can't be him; he can survive if GRRM needs him.

Are we sure that he was referring to a character who died?  "Written himself into a corner" is very vague.  But assuming that's the case ...

Is there a list somewhere of characters who died during the story? -- significant ones, of course, not every soldier or slave.

For lack of a list, I've been trying to think back ... I suppose it could be Tywin or Kevan.  With both of them gone, there's no one to rein in Cersei's excesses.

Oberyn also comes to mind. He seems like a man who could have been important to the story if he had lived.

[Nevets]

3 hours ago, The Duck and the Field said:

I saw GRRM quoted as having said this in a conversation with the writer of the "Outlander" series in which he was discussing how he had written himself "into a corner" before Winds. Who do you think is the character that GRRM is now regretting having killed off? Ser Aerys Oakheart? Maester Aemon? Jon Snow?

Most dead characters fall into one of two categories.  The first is those who had to die for the story to work.  Their death had a major effect on the story or a character, or created a hole that needed filled.  The second is those characters who it is difficult to imagine playing a useful part now.

My candidates for the character he regrets killing off are:

Janos Slynt; Oberyn Martell; Quentyn Martell; Kevan Lannister; Pycelle.

Janos - Every hero needs a formidable antagonist.  Janos was essentially the leader of the opposition.  He was popular, and didn't agree with Jon on much of anything.  No one left has that gravitas.  Martin may be wishing he had someone able to give Jon a hard time.

Quentyn - Quentyn could be useful as an ally and source of information.  Maybe even try to get married after leaving Meereen.

Oberyn - He was a useful source of chaos.  It may be that Martin is finding the Sand Snakes aren't as useful for this as Oberyn was.

Kevan and Pycelle - Their absence has yet to play out.  It may be that their departure leaves too big a hole in KL and Martin is having trouble filling it.  It may also be that he wants someone powerful in the Westlands, and with Kevan gone, there isn't one.

[SerDuncan]

Ned

[The Sleeper]

I can’t imagine anyone. The series has so many characters it would be easy to find someone to pick up the slack and doing what the plot needs them to. 

2 hours ago, Nevets said:

Most dead characters fall into one of two categories.  The first is those who had to die for the story to work.  Their death had a major effect on the story or a character, or created a hole that needed filled.  The second is those characters who it is difficult to imagine playing a useful part now.

My candidates for the character he regrets killing off are:

Janos Slynt; Oberyn Martell; Quentyn Martell; Kevan Lannister; Pycelle.

Janos - Every hero needs a formidable antagonist.  Janos was essentially the leader of the opposition.  He was popular, and didn't agree with Jon on much of anything.  No one left has that gravitas.  Martin may be wishing he had someone able to give Jon a hard time.

Quentyn - Quentyn could be useful as an ally and source of information.  Maybe even try to get married after leaving Meereen.

Oberyn - He was a useful source of chaos.  It may be that Martin is finding the Sand Snakes aren't as useful for this as Oberyn was.

Kevan and Pycelle - Their absence has yet to play out.  It may be that their departure leaves too big a hole in KL and Martin is having trouble filling it.  It may also be that he wants someone powerful in the Westlands, and with Kevan gone, there isn't one.

There's Alliser Thorne and it's not like the rest of the Watch are all in line.

Quentyn had his companions to serve as links and sources of information. As for being a suitor, how many people is Dany supposed to marry?

The Sand Snakes and Arianne are following on Oberyn's footsteps and they are in multiple places.

As for Kevan and Pycelle, it's hard to see how this will play out. I guess the main immediate purpose is to cause a rift between the Faith and the Throne and to set Cersei loose. Still there is someone who is politically savvy enough to tone down things. That is Margaery. 

[sifth]

Kevan and Pycelle, are good contenders. They were both the only hope Tommen and House Lannister as a whole, had left. With both men gone, House Lannister only has idiots and yes men, running the show.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

1 minute ago, sifth said:

Kevan and Pycelle, are good contenders. They were both the only hope Tommen and House Lannister as a whole, had left. With both men gone, House Lannister only has idiots and yes men, running the show.

Which is exactly why Varys got rid of them. Now nothing can stop Cersei from running House Lannister and its regime into the ground.

[James Steller]

35 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Which is exactly why Varys got rid of them. Now nothing can stop Cersei from running House Lannister and its regime into the ground.

Maybe she’s doing it too efficiently even for GRRM, heh.

[Mad King Bolton]

I sincerely doubt Martin regrets killing anyone. Painting yourself into a corner I would say is more likely that he doesn’t have a point of view for something he wants so it’s hard to advance part of a storyline. With Theon out of winterfell there’s nobody POV inside, I think only cersei in kings landing, and some other places of significance. So many in mereen and that may be the issue. The mereneese knot was that he needed more point of view for some elements to play out with good detail, so he has plenty there now, but that leaves some really complex areas light in POV. The battle of blood has Aeron and maybe Sam, not a lot. Battle of ice has Theon and Asha and they’re in the same tent practically. The wall only Mel depending on how Jon goes. So as much as people complain that there are too many POV characters, it’s a rough job.

[James Arryn]

I think he’s said two specific things which are related but not specific to what the OP is discussing. First he’s said he wishes in retrospect that he’d given Robb a POV. Secondly he’s said that he didn’t realize just how great of a character Oberyn was until after he’d killed him off. Neither of those would fit the quote exactly but might shed a little light. I think the quote seems to be a mechanical issue, ie a character is needed to for a specific function/perspective, and both of his ~ expressed regrets had more to do with getting more enjoyment out of the two characters rather than have them fulfill some other function. 

Edited June 8, 2023 by James Arryn

[Castellan]

17 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

I can’t imagine anyone. The series has so many characters it would be easy to find someone to pick up the slack and doing what the plot needs them to.

This was my first thought. I think out of the major characters he must know who lives and who dies, and you would think the minor characters can be substituted.

Plus what with his gardening analogy you would think he can just change things.

A stray thought - Varamyr - because if he needed a skinchanger for some reason, it would be awkward to suddenly bring another on stage. Or Orell the eagle. I muse on these things because I think Jon will lurk in Ghost while his body is in stasis on ice, or perhaps he will even become like Varamyr, a horrible fate and shock to readers akin to Ned getting his head chopped off. The ultimate emo - "I just can't express myself inside this wolf"! Nothing to do but brood.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Castellan

[BlackLightning]

I think the one character that he is talking about is Pycelle.

[1000th Lord Commander]

My bets are either Kevan or Pycelle, or both. By removing both of them he has removed all the teeth from the Lannisters, leaving no one to check the Tyrells.

 

[Angel Eyes]

9 hours ago, 1000th Lord Commander said:

My bets are either Kevan or Pycelle, or both. By removing both of them he has removed all the teeth from the Lannisters, leaving no one to check the Tyrells.

 

Unless Cersei decides to set fire to the whole works...

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

It was Ned, the whole “no one is safe” stuff was purely accidental and George has been rolling with it ever since.

[Hippocras]

Catelyn. Which is why we have Lady Stoneheart. 

Sandor. Which is why we have the Gravedigger.

More seriously though, it is possible he still needs Beric, and his plans for the BwB have become complicated. We have no window on what is going on with the group that split off, in particular Ned, who might be Lord of Starfall by now.