Gerwig's Barbie

[Heartofice]

Watched it.

I'll start by saying that there are a lot of very positive well done things about this movie, and it deserves to do well I think for the sheer amount of effort that went into it, the fact that it is different and somewhat unique. Robbie and Gosling especially are incredible and really bring the movie to life. The dance numbers are really well put together and most of all I think the set design and visuals in general deserve special mention because they are great.

But then is the movie good? I have no idea. 

What I will say is that the marketing for this movie does in no way represent the actual substance of the movie, which maybe is another piece of genius from the marketing side. You would be forgiven going into this movie thinking that you are going to get a fluffy, fun lighthearted take on Barbie, it will make you laugh and cheer. 

That is not what the movie is. It's a bit like that in places. In reality this is a lecture, a pink plastic lecture. 

I knew that conservatives are frothing at the mouth at the politics of this movie, but I've also seen some commentary that suggests they are missing the point and that the movie is in fact far cleverer than the surface level appears. It's hard to say for sure, so much of the messaging is incredibly straightforward and on the nose that there can be no doubt what it wants to say, but as a whole there are so many bits and pieces in there that seem confused and don't gel. So I can't tell whether there is a broader, clever message in there, or there was just a fuckup in the writing and the message is all messed up.

 

Spoiler

From one angle, the movie seems to just be a lazy list of feminist complaints, at least one scene has a character rant about everything wrong with being a woman for a good 5 minutes. The solution to all those problems just seems to complain about them some more.. nothing deeper than that. No true introspection or insight.. just keep moaning about how shit everything is. 

Most of the feminist talking points feel like they are coming from the mind of a 15 year old school girl. They must say 'The patriarchy' 100 times at least. The movie is concerned about how many women are running major corporations, but doesn't have any more depth about it than that. 

It's also really unclear whether the movie really hates men or not. Every single man in the movie is awful, stupid, vain, shallow, patronising, violent, sexist and sexually charged. Kens in Barbieland are pathetic individuals who live only to serve Barbie, when they get power they are even more pathetic just more like apes, and when they lose it again they go back to being original pathetic. 

But then at the same time the movie has mixed messaging. In the real world the system is apparently set up for men.. but Ken still has to do the work to get any kind of job.. so it isn't totally set up for men, it's a meritocracy. Ken brings Patriarchy back to Barbie land and all the barbies accept it immediately, as well as giving Ken some sort of validation that he had been missing given his terrible treatment by the barbies.. making patriarchy look like quite a good idea!

Original Barbie land is really set up to be this feminist utopia, everyone is beautiful, women can have whatever job they want and the men are there only to adore them in a non threatening non sexual way. Except it's the real world that Barbie wants to be a part of, and that original barbie ideal just made women unhappy because it created too much expectation, but it basically goes back to normal by the end.. with some added self validation.

So the message of the movie seems to be... Patriarchy = Bad, but so are men, but women are a mess too and have shit lives, and there isn't really much we can ever really do about it, you people are never going to be happy so just get on with your life.. and get a vagina. 

But since this is Gerwig, does she know she is doing these things, is this a satire of feminism? Barbie world goes back to this feminist caricature, is that on purpose? Is it a statement on feminism or is she actually suggesting that world is good now?

It's hard to know.

I think you could cut out half an hour of the movie and go for the laughs a bit more and you would have a good movie in there, there is a lot to like about it, but also a lot that is just not so great.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Heartofice

[Zorral]

6 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

Well now that you DID Ken you have no excuse anymore. 

Still not going.  Hurrumph! 

[Heartofice]

1 minute ago, Zorral said:

Still not going.  Hurrumph! 

Honestly I think you’d really like this movie.

[RhaenysBee]

6 hours ago, Heartofice said:

knew that conservatives are frothing at the mouth at the politics of this movie, but I've also seen some commentary that suggests they are missing the point and that the movie is in fact far cleverer than the surface level appears. It's hard to say for sure, so much of the messaging is incredibly straightforward and on the nose that there can be no doubt what it wants to say, but as a whole there are so many bits and pieces in there that seem confused and don't gel. So I can't tell whether there is a broader, clever message in there, or there was just a fuckup in the writing and the message is all messed up.

this is an interesting one because lately we (well really just the media) like to hang on to this misguided and absurd notion that the reception of a movie is entirely dependent on political alignment. No, it’s not, let’s not underestimate the intelligence of the audience like that. I’m sure there’s a correlation because movies are more and more compulsively political. But sadly for the studios, it’s far from that simple. If you fail to build a clear and congruent narrative to get across your clear and congruent message in an adequately subtle and intelligent manner like Barbie failed to do so, your movie is lacking and people will notice it and that has nothing to do with anybody’s political alignment. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by RhaenysBee

[Heartofice]

8 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

this is an interesting one because lately we (well really just the media) like to hang on to this misguided and absurd notion that the reception of a movie is entirely dependent on political alignment. No, it’s not, let’s not underestimate the intelligence of the audience like that. I’m sure there’s a correlation because movies are more and more compulsively political. But sadly for the studios, it’s far from that simple. If you fail to build a clear and congruent narrative to get across your clear and congruent message in an adequately subtle and intelligent manner like Barbie failed to do so, your movie is lacking and people will notice it and that has nothing to do with anybody’s political alignment. 

Well I think the message is that people are not really very interested in these political talking points. Studios hid that from all the marketing and I doubt most people had any idea what the movie really was before going on.

Talking to people who saw it already i think the poltics washed over them and they barely thought about it, they were there for the fun stuff 

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

Well I think the message is that people are not really very interested in these political talking points. Studios hid that from all the marketing and I doubt most people had any idea what the movie really was before going on.

Talking to people who saw it already i think the poltics washed over them and they barely thought about it, they were there for the fun stuff 

This reminds me a lot of the marketing for Frozen which basically made it seem like it was a fun adventure with Hans and Olaf as the main focus and hid almost everything about the songs and Anna/Elsa - in order to make it more likely that boys would go to see it. And apparently it worked!

[Raja]

I haven't seen it yet but one of the trailers of the movie literally has Robbie saying 'do you guys ever think about death' in the middle of a party, so for me I don't think I'm going into it expecting to something for 'laughs' only ( It's also Gerwig & Baumbach, who were never going to do just that)

Edited July 27, 2023 by Raja

[Zorral]

It's hilarious, how people seem to believe there have to be sides, and that they must come down on one or the other.

“Barbie” Is Brilliant, Beautiful, and Fun as Hell
Greta Gerwig’s giddily stylized vision of a doll coming to life makes a serious case for the art of adapting even the most sanitized I.P.
By Richard Brody

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-front-row/barbie-is-brilliant-beautiful-and-fun-as-hell

In the same issue, written by the same guy:

“Oppenheimer” Is Ultimately a History Channel Movie with Fancy Editing
Christopher Nolan’s bio-pic is so intent on being a morality tale that it misses its protagonist’s complexity.
By Richard Brody

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-front-row/oppenheimer-is-ultimately-a-history-channel-movie-with-fancy-editing

One would think people would mostly be pleased that there were two films at the same time that they could admire and enjoy, two very different films.  Which despite the copy writer's choice of captions, Brody by no means is trashing Oppenheimer.  He liked them both.

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Zorral

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

3 hours ago, Kalnak the Magnificent said:

This reminds me a lot of the marketing for Frozen which basically made it seem like it was a fun adventure with Hans and Olaf as the main focus and hid almost everything about the songs and Anna/Elsa - in order to make it more likely that boys would go to see it. And apparently it worked!

That’s because it was exactly that at one point. That movie is legendary for how all-over-the-place it was in the development process. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

19 minutes ago, Zorral said:

“Oppenheimer” Is Ultimately a History Channel Movie with Fancy Editing
Christopher Nolan’s bio-pic is so intent on being a morality tale that it misses its protagonist’s complexity.
By Richard Brody

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-front-row/oppenheimer-is-ultimately-a-history-channel-movie-with-fancy-editing

One would think people would mostly be pleased that there were two films at the same time that they could admire and enjoy, two very different films.  Which despite the copy writer's choice of captions, Brody by no means is trashing Oppenheimer.  He liked them both.

So, he’s saying it’ll win the Oscar for best film editing?

[IlyaP]

Richard Brody is a mercurial writer. Sometimes he'll offer up some interesting insights into something with good verve and humor and then it seems like he'll hand something in that was basically a Mandatory Clickbait Piece. But at least he covers films we might not otherwise hear about, so while some people obsess over Oppenheimer, he's out there reminding us that a really cool-looking movie about pinball exists, and offers up some commentary on French New Wave, etc. 

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

I miss Siskel and Ebert, the only two critics who I trusted to get it right most of the time. Pauline Kael sucked but even she’d be better than all these jokers writing reviews now. 

[RhaenysBee]

11 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Well I think the message is that people are not really very interested in these political talking points. Studios hid that from all the marketing and I doubt most people had any idea what the movie really was before going on.

Talking to people who saw it already i think the poltics washed over them and they barely thought about it, they were there for the fun stuff 

Yep, that’s why most people don’t understand why they keep pushing it, people watch movies for entertainment and the news/documentaries/etc for politics.  Oh the marketing is the worst kind of clickbait  Not even close to the actual product. 

[Heartofice]

8 hours ago, Raja said:

I haven't seen it yet but one of the trailers of the movie literally has Robbie saying 'do you guys ever think about death' in the middle of a party, so for me I don't think I'm going into it expecting to something for 'laughs' only ( It's also Gerwig & Baumbach, who were never going to do just that)

That scene is also played for laughs.. nothing in the trailers prepares you for the political feminist overload that is the lynchpin of the movie. 

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

Btw is marketing done by film studios in-house ? I’m just wondering if that’s the case, why is their marketing for the DCEU movies usually so poor and bland, because Barbie was legitimately brilliant marketing.

[IlyaP]

Discovered this evening that Ryan Gosling can also bust out a tune like an absolute boss. In the case of Barbie, Matchbox 20's Push. 

And by all accounts, Rob Thomas is absolutely delighted by its existence in the film. 

I am absolutely watching this movie as soon as humanly possible. 

[Zorral]

‘Barbie’ Poised To Cross $700M Global Through 2nd Weekend; ‘Oppenheimer’ Closing In On $400M

https://deadline.com/2023/07/barbie-oppenheimer-barbenheimer-second-weekend-global-international-box-office-1235450844/

 

[IlyaP]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

‘Barbie’ Poised To Cross $700M Global Through 2nd Weekend; ‘Oppenheimer’ Closing In On $400M

https://deadline.com/2023/07/barbie-oppenheimer-barbenheimer-second-weekend-global-international-box-office-1235450844/

 

Do you think Tom Cruise is miffed about all this, given how it's taken attention away from Dead Reckoning?  

[Zorral]

23 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

Do you think Tom Cruise is miffed about all this, given how it's taken attention away from Dead Reckoning?  

Tom who? What's Dead Reckoning?

[TheLastWolf]

3 hours ago, IlyaP said:

Do you think Tom Cruise is miffed about all this, given how it's taken attention away from Dead Reckoning?  

That's why I'm including him in the middle of the triple feature sandwich. As Spielberg said, fella saved cinema's ass.