Varysblackfyre321 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: Hamas says Israel is carrying out “genocide” in Gaza. That is the eventual outcome, that or ethnic cleansing or a south apartheid situation. 9 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: Hamas’ actual founding charter calls for the genocide of all Jewish people True they’re also absolute monsters who’ve brutally cracked down on Palestinians, governed corruptly. They don’t want Israel to stop any sort of oppression because if Israel did it’d be a bit harder to justify all the horrorifc shit they want to do. Edited October 13, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321 dbergkvist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 14 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: So the rest were men, presumably Hamas soldiers. No, I don't believe they're included in the body count. dbergkvist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) Many on the left’s response(not saying it’s a majority) response to Hamas brutality has been disgusting. I do genuinely believe that if they’d been alive during the rise of the Nazis they’d buy the propaganda from the Nazis on how they’re not as much a colonial expansionist empire as the British(not to say the British empire didn’t commit genocide, authoritarianism, etc. Edited October 13, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321 dbergkvist, Jace, Extat and Craving Peaches 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, GrimTuesday said: This is the leader of the former, supposed moderate, government that Bibi and his goons beat in the last election. It is not just Likud and it's far right allies, the rot runs deep in the Israeli government. They do not see the Palestinians as humans and we are backing them to the hilt. Bennett is much further right than Netanyahu and nobody with any understanding of Israeli politics would call him a moderate. The absolute POS Smotrich was previously a member of his party. His party had 6 or 7 seats out of a 60+ broad anti-Netanyahu gov (which also included leftists, centrists, and an actual Islamist party) and never could have actually won an election or won enough seats to form a gov. Edited October 13, 2023 by Bael's Bastard Many-Faced Votary and Craving Peaches 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 32 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: No, I don't believe they're included in the body count. Typically they are, although this time it clearly doesn't include Hamas members who crossed into and were eventually killed in Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: I've literally said it numerous times. I shouldn't have to in every post. Hate to break it to you, but it kind of is. We agree As I've all said several times leadership on both sides needs to change with more openminded people taking over. However, recent events likely ensure that at least in the short term the assholes who don't actually want peace will likely gain more power. Man, if you want to turn this into a competition, Between 2008 and last month, Palestinians have been killed at a rate of 20-1. They are also an oppressed class in their own country and regularly have their homes stolen from them by settlers who are seen as right wing freaks even in Israel. The entire national infrastructure is built in such a way as to isolate Palestinian communities from each other, creating a system where even in the West Bank, which is where Palestinians and Israelis live together, if you wanted to go see family in a neighboring town, you are subject to the humiliation of check points and segregated roads, not to mention the IDF and the Police who are there to protect only the Israelis and will back them up no matter who is in the wrong. Israelis and the Jewish people have suffered, there is no acceptable argument against that, but that does not give them the right to inflict suffering on others. You bring up that Hamas' charter calls for the eradication of Israel, but what you ignore is they have neither the popular support nor the material support to make that happen. Of course, the more you abuse, humiliate, and oppress the Palestinians you only build up their credibility and swell their ranks. The events of this week are the result of the Israeli government's brutality and the innocent Israelis who were murdered, and the population of Gaza, most of whom are also innocent, who are being murdered as I write this are the ones who are paying the price. Many-Faced Votary, Spockydog, Crixus and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conflicting Thought Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said: Hamas says Israel is carrying out “genocide” in Gaza. Hamas’ actual founding charter calls for the genocide of all Jewish people. Why don’t any of your posts ever mention this? i have said numerous times that i think hamas is a disgusting organization, look im jewish i have family that live in israel, but i know the horrible conditions, humilliations, and a long list of horrible horrible shit that the israeli people simply dont have to live with, the apartheid is on the palestinians as is the open jail or internment camp that is gaza. but you wont catch me saying that some part of me wants that the palestinians just kill every israeli on sight as you have expressed, and others here who are minimizing or fucking debating if bombing civilians and blocking food, electricity, fucking water is a war crime or a morally atroutious thing to do. and i will say one more fucking time that i hate what hamas did, i am fully and completely against it. Relic, Craving Peaches, dbergkvist and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 5 hours ago, Ran said: Since Egypt also has a say on blockade of Gaza, But it doesn't! It is Israel who is keeping the border closed by bombing it... Many-Faced Votary and dbergkvist 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/13/israel-hamas-live-iran-says-new-fronts-may-open-if-gaza-bombing-continues Just under half the people in Gaza have been ordered to move to Southern Gaza. UN says it won't end well and I agree. I think this tweet sums it up well. Quote Perspetive - asking all of northern Gaza (1.1 million ppl) to evacuate in 24 hours is like asking all residents of Dallas or Birmingham, England to evacuate in 24 hours. Both have about same population as northern Gaza. This is supposedly in preparation for a ground invasion. Many-Faced Votary and dbergkvist 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many-Faced Votary Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: This is supposedly in preparation for a ground invasion. With no confirmation, nor even a mention, of humanitarian corridors opening up, never mind the literal impossibility of such a large-scale evacuation in such a short period. dbergkvist and Craving Peaches 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 The million children in Gaza did not vote for Hamas, less than half the electorate did, and Hamas' mandate to rule expired in 2014 but they wouldn't hold more elections. Or do people actually believe what that minister was saying about having to get rid of the 'little snakes'? Many-Faced Votary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Just now, Many-Faced Votary said: With no confirmation, nor even a mention, of humanitarian corridors opening up, never mind the literal impossibility of such a large-scale evacuation in such a short period. It is going to reach the point of no return for helping the innocent people trapped in there. Many-Faced Votary and dbergkvist 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) Imagine if England cut off all water, food, medicine and electricity to the Central Belt, because of the actions of a few Scottish extremists who wanted to wipe out the English. Said extremists were last voted for with less than a majority nearly twenty years ago, and had refused to hold an election when their term expired. Would you think it was okay for everyone in Glasgow and Edinburgh to be starved by England? And the Central Belt is far larger than what the Palestinians get, with better farmland and more fresh water. Edited October 13, 2023 by Craving Peaches Spockydog, Many-Faced Votary, Which Tyler and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) It remains to be seen what happens come next election, but polls indicate a massive drop in support for right wing parties after this government's security failures (not to mention judicial overhaul garbage). One poll indicates Likud would win 19 seats (down from 32) while Smotrich and the Kahanist party would win 9 (down from a combined 14). It also shows the religious parties Shas and Torah Judaism down to 14 (from 18). The same poll indicates Gantz's centrist party would win 41 (up from 12), Yesh Atid with 15 (down from 24), and Meretz making it back in with 6. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/poll-shows-backing-for-netanyahu-imploding-gantz-taking-the-rudder/ https://m.maariv.co.il/news/politics/Article-1044603 Edited October 13, 2023 by Bael's Bastard Padraig, Many-Faced Votary, dbergkvist and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) I don't really understand Israel's urgency on all this. They can and should give more time for evacuation, it just gives them more time to plan and prepare their attack. I can only assume the urgency has to do with reports of what's going on with the hostages (dreadful, if that's the case) or that the leadership is attempting to make up for their failure to prevent this in the first place (which is certainly a bad reason). Personally, I think Israel needs to make egress into Israel possible for women, young children, and the elderly, at least. Whether Israel or the UN administers the resulting refugee camps while the operation takes place, I don't know, but it seems to be a minimum step to take if they are in fact planning to go after Hamas hard in northern Gaza. IT would make it easier to evacuate non-combatants if they had more than one direction to go. Axios indicates there had been reports the day before the attack that led to meetings regarding something going on around Gaza, but leadership decided not to put troops in the area on high alert. Sounds bad, but at the same time, how many false alarms do they get? Intelligence is generally murky at best. Edited October 13, 2023 by Ran Many-Faced Votary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) This might seem random but bear with me. I feel a lot of people consider Hamas far more dangerous because they appar do not care at all who they harm. The number of Thais and Nepalis killed during the attacks kind of demonstrates that because nobody can confuse those groups with Jews. Palestinians and their supporters across the globe celebrated the killing and abuse of people from across the globe online and in public. Hamas is perceived as a threat to every person that does not belong to a very select group. They fall in the same category as Al-Qaeda or ISIS for a lot of people. People feel that they would kill far more people and not just Jews if they had the means. Israel is a threat to Palestinians and a number of countries in the middle east. In the eyes of a lot of people Israel has shown a lot of restrained in the recent past because it had the means to kill far more people of the groups it is a threat to for a long time now. Jews and their supporters have celebrated the violence against Gaza. Total number of people harmed is emotionally not very relevant to people that don't belong to a harmed group when it is not completely unreasonable to assume that one side of a conflict would harm you given the chance while the other side is not threat to you at all. Edited October 13, 2023 by Luzifer's right hand Ran 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Just now, Ran said: Personally, I think Israel needs to make egress into Israel possible for women, young children, and the elderly, at least. That will never happen. Instead they want to force everyone already living in a tiny cramped area into an even smaller tiny cramped area. Egyptian politicians are concerned this is a build-up to the forced displacement of Palestinians into Egypt, so while they will let aid through (which they cannot do at the moment because Israel is bombing it), they will not let civilians through. Egypt says Israel seeks to empty Gaza, rejects corridors for civilians | Israel-Palestine conflict News | Al Jazeera Israel-Hamas live: Israel tells 1.1m Palestinians to move to southern Gaza | Israel-Palestine conflict News | Al Jazeera Quote Veteran Egyptian politician Mustafa Bakri has accused Israel of trying to drive Palestinians into Egypt. “It seems that this warning foretells the imminent ground aggression and forced displacement of the people of the Gaza Strip towards the border with Egypt, so that they can eliminate the dream of establishing a Palestinian state,” Bakri said on X. Many-Faced Votary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 4 hours ago, Fragile Bird said: An Aljazeera news story just popped up on my newsfeed. At least 1,537 Palestinians, including 500 children and 276 women, have been killed. So the rest were men, presumably Hamas soldiers. What sort of logic is this? That all Palestinian men are Hamas fighters? That the only "collateral damage" from bombings that matters are women and children? Huh? It is probably more correct to infer that wholesale bombings rarely hit their intended targets, and that MOST of those killed have been civilians. Furthermore, why are we comparing body counts? Will Israel stop bombing once it reaches X number of child deaths? What Hamas did on Saturday was barbaric and disgusting, and fucking evil. Israel had (almost) everyone's deepest sympathies. Until it started indiscriminately bombing Gaza. Larry of the Lawn, Crixus, Craving Peaches and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 5 hours ago, Fragile Bird said: So the rest were men, presumably Hamas soldiers. Have you seen the pictures of Palestinian male civilians fleeing with their children? dbergkvist, Many-Faced Votary, Mindwalker and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: And there's the pivot again, which says everything I need to know. I don't understand. How is it 'pivoting' to say you have sympathy for the innocent people in Gaza too? Are we only allowed to express sympathy for Israelis, and not those innocents trapped in Gaza as well? Edited October 13, 2023 by Craving Peaches Spockydog, Many-Faced Votary, Crixus and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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