GrimTuesday Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, House Balstroko said: I think Israel needs to offer the Palestinians an off-ramp in order to move forward. In exchange for Hamas leadership renouncing power, it dismantles all settlements in the West Bank. Merely trying to destroy Hamas is ultimately going to make the lives of Gaza’s citizens more miserable. That will just open the door for another organisation like Hamas to fill in the vacuum. If Israel dismantles the West Bank settlements, there will be a blood bath, this time perpetrated by the half a million Jewish settlers who inhabit those settlements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conflicting Thought Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 1 hour ago, karaddin said: just the whim of a fucked Israeli leader. just wanted to pick up on this to say that its not just one fucked political leader, its state policy since the begining to make life impossible for the palestinians. netanyahu is a product of israeli politics and history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Balstroko Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 4 hours ago, GrimTuesday said: If Israel dismantles the West Bank settlements, there will be a blood bath, this time perpetrated by the half a million Jewish settlers who inhabit those settlements. It’s going to have to happen at some point. Best to start ASAP. Logically, it can’t happen overnight, due to the sheer scale. Israel should work on a timetable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 (edited) ICRC reports an attack targeted its aid convoy. Also, Khan Younis, in the south where people were told to evacuate, was bombed again. So was Rafah. I still can find no evidence that the ambulance convoy targeted was being used by Hamas. Human Rights Watch says it should be investigated as a war crime. Edited November 8, 2023 by Craving Peaches Accuracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 7 hours ago, kissdbyfire said: I also read/heard somewhere that Biden and Netanyahu hate each other personally, though I have no idea if that’s true. I’d like to think so. 7 hours ago, Altherion said: I think Israel simply does not trust the UN The un keeps being mean to Israel just for a bit of colonialism and war crimes>:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 20 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: ICRC reports an Israeli attack targeted its aid convoy. Given the aid is inspected prior to entry to make sure it doesn't go to Hamas, what exactly is the justification for targeting it? How do you know it wasn’t Hamas in disguise? Checkmate atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 29 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: The un keeps being mean to Israel just for a bit of colonialism and war crimes>:( How dare the UN criticise a member state for failing to uphold international law and human rights! For a 75 year period! Directed at a specific group of people! Outrageous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron the Daring Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 1 hour ago, House Balstroko said: It’s going to have to happen at some point. Best to start ASAP. Logically, it can’t happen overnight, due to the sheer scale. Israel should work on a timetable. Not necesarilly. Israel is way too deep into Gaza. If they wanted to dismantle the settlements they supported and armed there, it would be a blood bath, like someone said before. The existence of the settlements is one of the main reasons behind a one-state solution, which would not require the dismantlement of settlements (because of freedom of movement for everybody). However, it's way too unthinkable for Israeli leadership, because it would mean the absolute emancipation of palestinians, responsibility taken for the citizens of Gaza, as well as the rebuilding of the place, a right to return, and a creation of a (truly) secular multiethnic democratic state without apartheid. The two-state solution, in contrast, is essentially meant to divide the palestinians at this point, as well as creating more violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 Well the UN does seem to singularly focus on Israel, and has almost every year, whilst ignoring other country’s offences. I get why Israel might be a bit dismissive of the UN Daeron the Daring, Ran, Crixus and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: ICRC reports an Israeli attack targeted its aid convoy. No, the ICRC did not assign blame and does not specify who did the firing, so we actually don't really know. Notably, the trucks changed their course and all reached Al-Shifa as intended, which seems mighty odd if Israel meant to target one or more of them. But then the Palestinian Red Crescent retweeted and editorialized by blaming the "IOF", their pejorative term for the IDF. Which may be true, but the Red Crescent in Gaza is the same service that acts as a taxi for Hamas militants in ambulances, so we'll have to wait for more details rather than taking their second-hand spin on what happened. Edited November 8, 2023 by Ran Craving Peaches, Heartofice and Fragile Bird 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Heartofice said: Well the UN does seem to singularly focus on Israel, and has almost every year, whilst ignoring other country’s offences. I get why Israel might be a bit dismissive of the UN Yes, feigned offense at supposed hypocrisy that can be rhetorically effective as a deflection for one own or another party’s misdeeds. Here’s the thing though—even if you and Israel were absolutely right and the UN is more apt to call out Israel’s crimes and immorality than other states, that doesn’t mean the criticism/condemnations are without basis. Edited November 8, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 20 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said: However, it's way too unthinkable for Israeli leadership, because it would mean the absolute emancipation of palestinians, responsibility taken for the citizens of Gaza, as well as the rebuilding of the place, a right to return, and a creation of a (truly) secular multiethnic democratic state without apartheid. Yeah I only see apartheid under a “one state” solution, or ethnic cleansing with the way Israel’s heading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 8 minutes ago, Heartofice said: Well the UN does seem to singularly focus on Israel, and has almost every year, whilst ignoring other country’s offences. I get why Israel might be a bit dismissive of the UN This is true. It's undeniable that Israel has been an extraordinary focus of the general body of the UN, to the exclusion of a lot of other places. Rosa Freedman had a long piece from last year about the occasion a UN independent expert wondered why Israel was even a UN member and suggested that the Jews controlled social media, which digs into the disproportionate focus that has been placed on Israel. Perhaps the disproportionate focus is because Israel as an otherwise liberal democracy seems so outrageous to be caught up in this endless conflict and to do outrageous things in the course of it... or maybe there's more to it, who knows? Heartofice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 6 hours ago, House Balstroko said: I think Israel needs to offer the Palestinians an off-ramp in order to move forward. In exchange for Hamas leadership renouncing power, it dismantles all settlements in the West Bank. Merely trying to destroy Hamas is ultimately going to make the lives of Gaza’s citizens more miserable. That will just open the door for another organisation like Hamas to fill in the vacuum. None of this is realistic, I'm afraid. The current Israeli government have zero interest in establishing a Palestinian state or anything of that kind. Their interest in the Palestinians begins and ends with whether they are a threat. Their aim is peace, but not the sort of peace where Palestinians have no reason to attack Israelis: rather, the sort of peace where Palestinians are not able to attack Israelis. That means a powerless, impoverished, subsistence level population living in a stateless buffer zone where they, Israel, can exert military control at will. Can that be achieved? You might think not. But you assume another solution is possible. Since the current Israeli government don't want or believe in that solution, it's not. Kalbear, kissdbyfire, Larry of the Lawn and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron the Daring Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 5 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Yeah I only see apartheid under a “one state” solution, or ethnic cleansing with the way Israel’s heading. You mean the end of it? I assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, Ran said: This is true. And a complete whataboutism. apartheid South Africa could and on occasion did similar whining of persecution by the international community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 15 minutes ago, Ran said: No, the ICRC did not assign blame and does not specify who did the firing, so we actually don't really know. Notably, the trucks changed their course and all reached Al-Shifa as intended, which seems mighty odd if Israel meant to target one or more of them. But then the Palestinian Red Crescent retweeted and editorialized by blaming the "IOF", their pejorative term for the IDF. Which may be true, but the the Red Crescent in Gaza is the same service that acts as a taxi for Hamas militants in ambulances, so we'll have to wait for more details rather than taking their second-hand spin on what happened. There are reports that the Israeli army is closing in on al-Shifa hosptial though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 Just now, Varysblackfyre321 said: And a complete whataboutism. apartheid South Africa could and on occasion did similar whining of persecution by the international community. Yes, because one of the three commissioners assigned to a committee to examine Israel and Palestine repeating antisemitic nonsense is "whataboutism". I mean, who hasn't seen antisemitism aimed at Iran or China in the halls of the UN? Bael's Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 Quote Israel must not reoccupy Gaza - Blinken Blinken says key elements of a future peace include "no forcible displacement of Palestinians from Gaza". "Not now, not after the war," he says, adding that other conditions include: No use of Gaza as a platform for terrorism or violent attacks No reoccupation of Gaza after the conflict ends No attempt to blockade or besiege Gaza No reduction in the territory of Gaza Ensuring "no terrorist threats can emanate from the West Bank" Source: BBC Do you think Israel will abide by these conditions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 19 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Source: BBC Do you think Israel will abide by these conditions? Do you think Palestinians and Iran will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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