Israel Hamas War XI -- Foggier and Foggier

[Zorral]

4 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

The truth is we all live in countries where children are considered unimportant until they come of age,

The truth is that I happen to live in a country with multitudes of supposedly xtians who only value fetuses. These ilks see no value in women as persons and human beings, any more than They do for actually born infants and children, and vast numbers of Others.

[JoannaL]

33 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

Some of the people are getting released, some finally get to go home after being treated terribly, and that's great. But if you really do want to talk about the differences between the two? Here's a thought for you, only some of the hostages being released will get to go home and be without the constant spectre that the people who kidnapped them will be able to imprison them again whenever the hell they want.

and the other go home with the feeling they can be attacked and slaugthered without mercy at any moment like on october 7th

[TrueMetis]

4 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I’m all for checking who and what we link here, and I have been especially careful since I posted a tweet that was obvious misinformation. 
That said, if the person posting is fairly satisfied w/ the content they’re posting, I don’t think they have to be subjected to an interrogation about their post. Anyone w/ any doubts about what has been posted is free to go look it up themselves. 

Same here, there's a lot I could post, but I can't actually verify the claims I've seen about the IDF harrassing the families of the hostages they're releasing so I don't.

But it's not like the mainstream sources are themselves that great, I've complained about them just straight up ignoring things in the past. And that doesn't even get into the accusations of them just being straight up wrong on some stuff, like here's an accusation of the BBC getting a translation just like, completely wrong. In a way that could not possibly be accidental. I don't speak Arabic, so I have no idea how I'm supposed to handle something like this.

 

[Craving Peaches]

20 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

I don't speak Arabic, so I have no idea how I'm supposed to handle something like this.

Wouldn't one still hear '~Hamas' even if it was Arabic anyway? I don't think Hamas sounds that different in English (according to Wikipedia).

[Altherion]

According to CNN, Hamas says it wants to extend the 4 day truce. The agreement to trade hostages for prisoners, food and fuel and a pause in the fighting provided for such an extension... but only if Hamas continues to release at least 10 hostages every day. It would be good if the truce was extended and more hostages were released.

[kissdbyfire]

 

ETA: apparently this post was total misinformation and now I know reliability checkers aren’t that reliable either. Great. Taking it down as fake news. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by kissdbyfire

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

 

https://consortiumnews.com/2023/11/23/idf-knew-real-hamas-hq-while-lying-about-al-shifa/

While telling the world that Hamas HQ was under al-Shifa Hospital, the IDF had already found the actual command center 8.5km away, reports Gareth Porter.

This dude's wiki page is wild. Not exactly someone I'd want to trust. 

[Tears of Lys]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

This dude's wiki page is wild. Not exactly someone I'd want to trust. 

Wow.  From just a quick reading of his Wiki page, I see that he's a defender of the Khmer Rouge.   That's a position I have never dreamed existed.  

[Mudguard]

3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

 

https://consortiumnews.com/2023/11/23/idf-knew-real-hamas-hq-while-lying-about-al-shifa/

While telling the world that Hamas HQ was under al-Shifa Hospital, the IDF had already found the actual command center 8.5km away, reports Gareth Porter.

Link to article on Jerusalem Post they mention in the piece above:

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-773237#google_vignette

I don't think this news is real, since I can't find any independent corroboration of the Jerusalem Post story.  I would think the story would have been reported elsewhere if true.  The original Jerusalem Post article also uses a pic of a tunnel taken from at least as far back as 2014.  The caption doesn't claim that the photo is recent, but I would say that it is misleading at best to use an old photo.

The old photo from 2014.

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/report-material-for-gaza-reconstruction-diverted-to-hamas-for-tunnel-reparations-385178

I would need to see the story reported on a reputable news source like CNN, BBC, etc. before I believe it.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Tears of Lys said:

Wow.  From just a quick reading of his Wiki page, I see that he's a defender of the Khmer Rouge.   That's a position I have never dreamed existed.  

Yeah, that was obviously the thing that jumped out first, but there's a lot of other weird tidbits in there as well. 

[Heartofice]

2 hours ago, Tears of Lys said:

Wow.  From just a quick reading of his Wiki page, I see that he's a defender of the Khmer Rouge.   That's a position I have never dreamed existed.  

He is a probably a big Chomsky fan

[kissdbyfire]

8 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

This dude's wiki page is wild. Not exactly someone I'd want to trust. 

Is it? I didn’t see that but I did check consortium news reliability and all 3 checkers rated it reliable, factual, mostly factual. I suppose it’s getting harder and harder to rely on stuff outside the msm which isn’t reliable either. Thanks for the heads up. 

[Rippounet]

4 hours ago, Heartofice said:

He is a probably a big Chomsky fan

Chomsky never defended the Khmer rouge, that was a lie spread by people without the braincells to understand what he actually said.

[Heartofice]

4 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

Chomsky never defended the Khmer rouge, that was a lie spread by people without the braincells to understand what he actually said.

Yeah he was just 'asking questions' with a healthy dose of scepticism. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Is it? I didn’t see that but I did check consortium news reliability and all 3 checkers rated it reliable, factual, mostly factual. I suppose it’s getting harder and harder to rely on stuff outside the msm which isn’t reliable either. Thanks for the heads up. 

People want to support people who write what they want to believe. I tend to trust larger outlets with a fuck ton of lawyers because they don't want to get sued for getting things dead wrong. Doesn't mean there isn't good independent journalism, but I wouldn't run with it quickly. 

2 hours ago, Rippounet said:

Chomsky never defended the Khmer rouge, that was a lie spread by people without the braincells to understand what he actually said.

Is there any question he tried to downplay the situation while also blaming the cause in part if not mostly on the West, specifically the US, because he opposed their foreign policy? That links directly back to this Porter guy, who is quoted basically saying that because he got one thing right about bad Western foreign policy he assumed it was all mostly bad without evidence. 

[kissdbyfire]

21 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

People want to support people who write what they want to believe. I tend to trust larger outlets with a fuck ton of lawyers because they don't want to get sued for getting things dead wrong. Doesn't mean there isn't good independent journalism, but I wouldn't run with it quickly. 

Very fair points and excellent advice. 

[Gorn]

5 hours ago, Rippounet said:

Chomsky never defended the Khmer rouge, that was a lie spread by people without the braincells to understand what he actually said.

Here is the full text of his about his denial of the Cambodian genocide, "Distortions at Fourth Hand": https://chomsky.info/19770625/

Quote

If, indeed, postwar Cambodia is, as he believes, similar to Nazi Germany, then his comment is perhaps just, though we may add that he has produced no evidence to support this judgement. But if postwar Cambodia is more similar to France after liberation, where many thousands of people were massacred within a few months under far less rigorous conditions than those left by the American war, then perhaps a rather different judgement is in order. That the latter conclusion may be more nearly correct is suggested by the analyses mentioned earlier.

We disagree with Lacouture’s judgement on the importance of precision on this question. It seems to us quite important, at this point in our understanding, to distinguish between official government texts and memories of slogans reported by refugees, between the statement that the regime “boasts” of having “killed” 2 million people and the claim by Western sources that something like a million have died — particularly, when the bulk of these deaths are plausibly attributable to the United States. Similarly, it seems to us a very important question whether an “inhuman phrase” was uttered by a Thai reporter or a Khmer Rouge official. As for the numbers, it seems to us quite important to determine whether the number of collaborators massacred in France was on the order of thousands, and whether the French Government ordered and organized the massacre. Exactly such questions arise in the case of Cambodia.

I especially "like" how he puts the word "killed" in quote marks. Or how he compares the victims of Cambodian genocide to Vichy France collaborationists. Or how he states that "the bulk of these deaths are plausibly attributable to the United States". Or how he haughtily dismisses actual evidence and testimonies from refugee eyewitnesses of the genocide elsewhere in the text:

Quote

Refugees are frightened and defenseless, at the mercy of alien forces. They naturally tend to report what they believe their interlocuters wish to hear. While these reports must be considered seriously, care and caution are necessary. Specifically, refugees questioned by Westerners or Thais have a vested interest in reporting atrocities on the part of Cambodian revolutionaries, an obvious fact that no serious reporter will fail to take into account.

Or should we go into his well-documented denial of Bosnian Genocide? Or Chomsky accepting a medal from Tomislav Nikolic, an actual fascist who was the right-hand man of convicted war criminal Seselj, and also a Chetnik voivode? Or do I lack enough brain cells for that?

Fuck Noam Chomsky in his wrinkled fucking genocide-denying ass.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Gorn

[Kalbear]

Just announced per npr that the ceasefire and hostage/prisoner swap has been extended by two more days.

 

Eta: cnn link

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-11-27-23/index.html#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=17011053258490&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com

Edited November 27, 2023 by Kalbear

[Relic]

52 minutes ago, Gorn said:

Here is the full text of his about his denial of the Cambodian genocide, "Distortions at Fourth Hand": https://chomsky.info/19770625/

 

written in 1977 and since elaborated on. 

[Relic]

5 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Just announced per npr that the ceasefire and hostage/prisoner swap has been extended by two more days.

Great news, now lets extend that indefinitely and start figuring out what to do with the hundreds of thousand of displaced people who have no homes to return to.