Darryk Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said: Do you think all the civilian deaths happening in the meantime will generate any pain or rage? Well I was talking specifically about how Israelis felt as that's where my relative was but obviously the same question applies in Gaza. Edited December 31, 2023 by Darryk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 More on "applies or valid only when in our interest". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Per NYT Hamas is reporting a senior leader and two deputies were assassinated in Lebanon. Free link here for CNN: https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-01-02-24/h_b25890648ee0494a0264aa14b07cc570 Quote Hamas has announced that one of the victims of an attack in southern Beirut in Lebanon on Tuesday night was a senior official, Saleh Al Arouri. Hamas media outlet Al Aqsa TV said that the “Deputy Head of the Political Bureau of Hamas, the martyr leader Saleh Al Arouri, was martyred in a treacherous Zionist airstrike in Beirut.” Al Arouri was considered one of the founding members of the group's military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, and was based in Beirut. The Israeli army demolished Al Arouri’s house in the occupied West Bank town of Aroura in October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 I was wondering why Hamas would advertise the death of senior leadership so actively. Normally they don't say this sort of thing. The reason is that they're trying to use it to bring Lebanon and more importantly Iran into the war. https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-01-02-24/h_984020e4402e49c3660d1c39c10a8e7a Quote It would mark the biggest Israeli strike on the Lebanese capital since the 2006 war between the two countries. The apparent strike hit a popular neighborhood in Beirut’s southern suburbs, which are also a stronghold of Iran-backed Hezbollah. It reportedly struck a Hamas office, killing Arouri — one of the founders of the group’s military wing — during a meeting. Lebanese Prime Minister Najib Mikati called it a “new Israeli crime that aims to drag Lebanon into a new phrase in confrontations,” referring to the ongoing, months-long tit-for-tat conflict between Hezbollah and Israeli forces in the Lebanon-Israel border region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 3 hours ago, Kalbear said: I was wondering why Hamas would advertise the death of senior leadership so actively. Normally they don't say this sort of thing. The reason is that they're trying to use it to bring Lebanon and more importantly Iran into the war. https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-01-02-24/h_984020e4402e49c3660d1c39c10a8e7a I'd pay a pretty penny to have the Iranian versions of all the news alerts I'm getting about Houthi attacks at sea on U.S. assets and civillian shipping. I'm sure the state department is all over it but I worry that current leadership is doing nothing as we slide into more conflicts. And what's worse, the potential alternative leadership we might get is fucking insane and shouldn't be in charge of a bake sale, let alone a possible east european war, a west-asian war, and an east-asian war all at the same time. Tears of Lys 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Balstroko Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, Jace, Extat said: I'd pay a pretty penny to have the Iranian versions of all the news alerts I'm getting about Houthi attacks at sea on U.S. assets and civillian shipping. I'm sure the state department is all over it but I worry that current leadership is doing nothing as we slide into more conflicts. And what's worse, the potential alternative leadership we might get is fucking insane and shouldn't be in charge of a bake sale, let alone a possible east european war, a west-asian war, and an east-asian war all at the same time. I’d be surprised if Iran were to try something so overtly. I think they are happy with keeping it a proxy war as their leadership is already under intense scrutiny back at home. If the US were to get directly involved, you might be looking at an Operation Praying Mantis 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 16 hours ago, Kalbear said: I was wondering why Hamas would advertise the death of senior leadership so actively. Normally they don't say this sort of thing. The reason is that they're trying to use it to bring Lebanon and more importantly Iran into the war. https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-01-02-24/h_984020e4402e49c3660d1c39c10a8e7a Yeah, that seems obvious. It's also likely that Netanyahu authorised the strike with a similar objective, to heighten tensions if not draw either country in. Netanyahu has consistently acted as if his priority is to prolong and intensify the conflict, IMO, and that would work for him politically. kissdbyfire and dbergkvist 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) Now this is an escalation: Quote At least 73 people were killed Wednesday and 170 injured in the Iranian city of Kerman after twin blasts near the burial site of slain military commander Qasem Soleimani, in what officials called a terror attack, according to state media. The first explosion was 700 meters away from Soleimani’s grave, and the second was a kilometer (0.6 miles) away as pilgrims visited the site, IRNA added. https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/03/middleeast/iran-explosions-soleimani-ceremony-intl/index.html Edited January 3 by Tywin et al. DireWolfSpirit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Yesterday with again the ethnic cleansing: Quote ... in response to calls from Israeli cabinet members for the resettlement of Palestinians outside Gaza, the U.S. State Department issued a “rejection” of both the language and the idea. “We have been clear, consistent, and unequivocal that Gaza is Palestinian land and will remain Palestinian land, with Hamas no longer in control of its future and with no terror groups able to threaten Israel. That is the future we seek, in the interests of Israelis and Palestinians, the surrounding region, and the world.” .... The future? Quote .... On December 22, in the Christian Science Monitor, Arab political journalist Taylor Luck and correspondent Fatima AbdulKarim reported that Arab Gulf states, Egypt, Jordan, the U.S., and the European Union have created “[a] massive postwar reconstruction plan…for the besieged Gaza Strip.” The plan is to “rebuild the coastal strip, unite and overhaul Palestinian governance, and create a Palestinian security force in Gaza to ensure Palestinian and Israeli security.” Arab diplomats insist the reconstruction of southern Gaza, including alleviating suffering, rebuilding housing and infrastructure, and restoring jobs, must be “rapid”; Gulf states have set $3 billion a year for ten years as the first budget. The plan calls for a “revamped and revitalized” Palestinian Authority to govern Gaza and the West Bank with current president Mahmoud Abbas as a figurehead and an apolitical unity government running affairs. The plan is still developing, but already the main obstacles are Israel’s governing coalition, led by Netanyahu, who refuses the ideas of a two-state solution and of a Palestinian Authority in charge of Gaza, and Hamas, which Gulf states as well as the U.S. reject as a participant in the future governance of Gaza. Other Iran-backed militias also oppose such a solution. .... https://www.state.gov/rejection-of-irresponsible-statements-on-resettlement-of-palestinians-outside-of-gaza/ https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2023/1222/A-plan-for-Gaza-s-future-is-taking-shape.-Obstacles-loom dbergkvist and Kalbear 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 I want to know whether Netanyahu will manage to drag the US into a broader war in the Middle East or will the US bring him to heel. dbergkvist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Christian Science Monitor is truly excellent. One of the best tips I ever got from a professor in college was a Sociology professor strongly urging us to read it because of its clear, concise reporting without a hint of political bias. I read the article when I was published, and it provides a realistic and appropriate assessment of what seems to be going on. I think of particular note, there has been reporting right about the same time that Saudi Arabia and the UAE have been urging Abbas to resign, suggesting that they see overcoming Netanyahu's issues with Fatah as largely rooted in Abbas's corruption and ineffectual nature. Salam Fayyad would be an excellent leader to go forward with, though I fear the UAE prefers Mohammed Dahlan, who I don't think would be an acceptable replacement for Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Echos .... Israel in talks with Congo and other countries on Gaza ‘voluntary migration’ plan Senior official says Jerusalem working on postwar resettlement of Palestinians from Strip; some ministers tout Saudi Arabia as destination for Gazans seeking construction work https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-in-talks-with-congo-and-other-countries-on-gaza-voluntary-migration-plan/ Quote The “voluntary” resettlement of Palestinians from Gaza is slowly becoming a key official policy of the government, with a senior official saying that Israel has held talks with several countries for their potential absorption. Zman Israel, The Times of Israel’s Hebrew sister site, has learned that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s coalition is conducting secret contacts for accepting thousands of immigrants from Gaza with Congo, in addition to other nations. “Congo will be willing to take in migrants, and we’re in talks with others,” a senior source in the security cabinet said. .... kissdbyfire, fionwe1987 and dbergkvist 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrim Fox Cauthon Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 23 minutes ago, Zorral said: Echos .... Israel in talks with Congo and other countries on Gaza ‘voluntary migration’ plan Senior official says Jerusalem working on postwar resettlement of Palestinians from Strip; some ministers tout Saudi Arabia as destination for Gazans seeking construction work https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-in-talks-with-congo-and-other-countries-on-gaza-voluntary-migration-plan/ If you put the word "voluntary" in the description of the forced resettlement plan, then it gives you a free dodge out of ethnic cleansing accusations. dbergkvist, Kalbear, fionwe1987 and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Almost 22,000 dead, 57,000 wounded in Gaza since the IDF began bombing the densely populated region. Over 60% of the dead are women and children, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry (whom, despite the head-in-sand some of y'all are doing has yet to be proven false.) dbergkvist, JGP and Crixus 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, Ran said: they see overcoming Netanyahu's issues with Fatah as largely rooted in Abbas's corruption To check if this is true, I recommend entering ‘Benjamin Netanyahu corruption’ into Google. This is sure to verify how much he hates corruption. TrueMetis, kissdbyfire, Craving Peaches and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 minutes ago, mormont said: To check if this is true, I recommend entering ‘Benjamin Netanyahu corruption’ into Google. This is sure to verify how much he hates corruption. Feels like a non sequitor. He doesn't have to hate corruption, he only needs to believe that Abbas' corruption is part of why Fatah is a useless partner in insuring the restoraton of Gaza and security for Gazans and Israelis alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Similarly, Netanyahu’s notorious corruption is only one of the numerous reasons why any sane Palestinian, or for that matter American, European or other, would regard his government as a useless partner in insuring the restoration of Gaza and security for Gazans and Israelis alike. fionwe1987, Craving Peaches, kissdbyfire and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 minutes ago, mormont said: Similarly, Netanyahu’s notorious corruption is only one of the numerous reasons why any sane Palestinian, or for that matter American, European or other, would regard his government as a useless partner in insuring the restoration of Gaza and security for Gazans and Israelis alike. Well, yes, but then many people expect Netanyahu's days are numbered on that score, and "post-Gaza" will involve some other government. He will try and delay the reckoning as long as possible, no doubt, but polling suggests that the people of Israel aren't going to wait forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 16 hours ago, House Balstroko said: I’d be surprised if Iran were to try something so overtly. I think they are happy with keeping it a proxy war as their leadership is already under intense scrutiny back at home. If the US were to get directly involved, you might be looking at an Operation Praying Mantis 2. Maybe, but I think the Tom Cruise movie will prove prescient if this is the case. It'd be a strike on their nuclear development facilities, which means home soil. Iran can't roll over and keep playing proxies if that happens, not and keep their status as a regional power. Interesting times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, Ran said: Well, yes, but then many people expect Netanyahu's days are numbered on that score, and "post-Gaza" will involve some other government. He will try and delay the reckoning as long as possible, no doubt, but polling suggests that the people of Israel aren't going to wait forever. That doesn't guarantee anyone else that will be more reasonable. While Netanyahu is largely disliked now his policies on Palestinians appear to be gaining in popularity, and the Israeli viewpoint appears to be somewhere between Netanyahu's previous policies of never letting Palestinians get a country to shipping them out of the area entirely and taking things over by force. I could not find anything online for this - are there any serious contenders to Netanyahu that are proposing a 2-state solution or even Palestinian limited rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts