Watch, Watched, Watching: It's Award Season

[Heartofice]

6 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Yes, bigotry and naked jingoism is exactly as abhorrent as feminism

Definitely, I just overlooked it while it was displayed in Barbie. Sometimes you have to just to go with the flow. 

Edited January 28 by Heartofice

[polishgenius]

I can't deny that I've sat and enjoyed some films that are ideologically pretty yikes. I was entertained by 300, I think the wuxia Hero is a visual delight, I didn't hate Zootopia. 





But at least I'm not one of the many who love Forrest Gump. 

Edited January 28 by polishgenius

[IlyaP]

33 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

But at least I'm not one of the many who love Forrest Gump.

Alan Silvestri's score for Forrest Gump is the only thing I like about that movie. I otherwise bounced off it so hard.

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

Forest Gump is a great movie ! Not sure why the backlash is there 

[Conflicting Thought]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Definitely, I just overlooked it while it was displayed in Barbie. Sometimes you have to just to go with the flow. 

how was bigotry displayed in barbie?

[polishgenius]

6 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

Forest Gump is a great movie ! Not sure why the backlash is there 

 

 

Well I hated it long before I understood anything about politics coz it's a vomit-worthingly saccharine, nakedly manipulative piece of junk

but it also has backlash because it's a film in which the good old boy who ultimately does mostly what he's told and comports to traditional 'American' values gets great success and happiness, whereas his love interest who gets into countercultural movements and wants to be independent dies of AIDS 'a virus'. 

[Ran]

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

I can't deny that I've sat and enjoyed some films that are ideologically pretty yikes. I was entertained by 300, I think the wuxia Hero is a visual delight, I didn't hate Zootopia. 

But at least I'm not one of the many who love Forrest Gump. 

Of the four listed, I liked 300 the least. Hero's amazing, but that's in large part because Zhang Yi-mou is a fantastic director. (In fact, I prefer Hero to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and that's a great film in its own right.) 

[polishgenius]

Just now, Ran said:

Of the four listed, I liked 300 the least. Hero's amazing, but that's in large part because Zhang Yi-mou is a fantastic director. (In fact, I prefer Hero to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and that's a great film in its own right.) 

 

Crouching Tiger is great, yeah. I prefer it to Hero myself, but I can see why someone might go the other way. 

I feel like Shadow might be Zhang's best Wuxia film, although I've only seen it once, I'd have to see it again to be sure (I don't think a great deal of House of Flying Daggers). 

 

 

Anyway, 300 is definitely the most flimsy film on my list, but honestly for all the criticism of it it might be the least objectionable morally. Like it's pretty easy to read it as glorifying Spartans in the same way fascists do and therefore potentially pro-fascist, but it's not actually a message movie in any way. Hero is literally a pro-authoritarianism morality play. Zootopia doesn't intend for its message to be racist, but it does intend a message so when it fucks it up it goes way wrong. 

[IlyaP]

49 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Well I hated it long before I understood anything about politics coz it's a vomit-worthingly saccharine, nakedly manipulative piece of junk

but it also has backlash because it's a film in which the good old boy who ultimately does mostly what he's told and comports to traditional 'American' values gets great success and happiness, whereas his love interest who gets into countercultural movements and wants to be independent dies of AIDS 'a virus'. 

My reading of it also found that it seemed to valorise simple-mindedness and took umbrage with, criticised, or punished anyone who dared to question the systemic problems that plagued their world, as mentioned above. And certainly, there's room to read it as a plea for kindness, but that always got lost to me in the noise of anti-intellectualism.

It's a fine enough film, competently filmed, well-acted, reasonably edited, superbly scored, but there's a lot of material under the hood that frustrated some viewers. 

[Zorral]

I do understand appreciating technological/structural/cinemagraphic qualities of a film or television.  But that changes nothing in terms of the message, which one cannot enjoy.

We aren't seeing Riefensthal film festivals -- just try putting one of those even in a college film series these days, or festival honoring lifetime achievement of Griffith. But they are great cinema, right?

When RRR blindsided me with its Hindu Nationalist message, I could never watch it again, or will watch any of the sequels.  Audiences thinking these sorts of messages don't matter to the international audience only encourages those who foster hate and murder and plunder those who aren't 'right'.

As antithesis to doing it actually right, I'd suggest something like this:

This is what it was like in 1968  -- here as much as the UK.  Who wants to go back to this?

George Gently, Series 5, First Episode, "Northern Soul" (2012) shows how awful all that was, and, alas, still in so many places, but supposedly it is no longer unpunished, and / or non-criminal.

Quote

This episode sees the racial unrest that is sweeping the United States reach British shores as Enoch Powell launches his tirade against immigration. But racial harmony can be found at the 'all-nighters' that take place in 1968, where disillusioned young people, black and white, escape the boredom of factory life to dance the night away to imported soul music. In Newcastle, the haven of equality found at the Carlton Ballroom all-nighter is destroyed when a young black girl, Dolores Kenny, is murdered, leading Gently to uncover a disturbing and racialist undercurrent growing within the local community.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2326126/

One of the site reviews says --

Quote

The best episode so far
I can't remember the last time a tv series episode made me cry. Having come of age during the late 60s, it was heartbreaking to experience again the most painful parts of my high school years. I'm white, raised to love everyone regardless of origin or orientation. Most of my classmates loved soul music; every weekend we danced to live soul tracks played by a mixed-race band of our friends. The atmosphere was energetic and peaceful, uplifting, everyone got along. It really was much like this superb episode beautifully depicted. We all wanted the world - our future - to be like that. Naive, but until Dr King was assassinated, we had hope. Every detail of this story was an accurate representation of the era. I cried at the end, knowing that such senseless hatred still persists fifty-odd years later, as the planet dies.

We've fallen very far since 2011-2012. We know why too.

Edited January 29 by Zorral

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

I do understand appreciating technological/structural/cinemagraphic qualities of a film or television.  But that changes nothing in terms of the message, which one cannot enjoy.

We aren't seeing Riefensthal film festivals -- just try putting one of those even in a college film series these days, or festival honoring lifetime achievement of Griffith. But they are great cinema, right?

When RRR blindsided me with its Hindu Nationalist message, I could never watch it again, or will watch any of the sequels.  Audiences thinking these sorts of messages don't matter to the international audience only encourages those who foster hate and murder and plunder those who aren't 'right'.

That film was crap even without its message. 

[Zorral]

1 minute ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

That film was crap even without its message. 

Well, the dance sequences were terrific.  They really got me.

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

2 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Well, the dance sequences were terrific.  They really got me.

Yikes, allow me to point you to far better Bollywood dances my friend : 

 

 

[Zorral]

I liked the way the dance sequences commented on the narrative -- they were fun -- until I realized what was going on.

But I'll never watch any of these films again.  I may not watch any more Indian films at this point, at all, unless TheLastWolf suggests something!

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

42 minutes ago, Zorral said:

I liked the way the dance sequences commented on the narrative -- they were fun -- until I realized what was going on.

But I'll never watch any of these films again.  I may not watch any more Indian films at this point, at all, unless TheLastWolf suggests something!

Watch Tumbbad, it’s quite atmospheric and awesome. Period horror film, kinda like a gothic. 

[TheLastWolf]

43 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

Yikes, allow me to point you to far better Bollywood dances my friend : 

 

 

Far better dances in the regional woods imo

After all guys up North borrowed everything from AR Rahman, Aishwarya Rai to Prabhu Deva (Mani Ratnam notwithstanding) to stay afloat

42 minutes ago, Zorral said:

I may not watch any more Indian films at this point, at all, unless TheLastWolf suggests something!

Fire away then! What will it be ma'am, the usual horses-and-elephants, or are you willing to try the day's special?

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

3 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Far better dances in the regional woods imo

After all guys up North borrowed everything from AR Rahman, Aishwarya Rai to Prabhu Deva (Mani Ratnam notwithstanding) to stay afloat

Fire away then! What will it be ma'am, the usual horses-and-elephants, or are you willing to try the day's special?

 I know, I deliberately sent him a mass pleaser to show that even in the mainstream dances, there have been far superior ones than the shit in RRR. Oscars always reward the worst Indian movies, slumdog millionaire was another piece of shit movie and no offence to AR Rahman but he’s done way better than Jai Ho.

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

5 hours ago, polishgenius said:

 

 

Well I hated it long before I understood anything about politics coz it's a vomit-worthingly saccharine, nakedly manipulative piece of junk

but it also has backlash because it's a film in which the good old boy who ultimately does mostly what he's told and comports to traditional 'American' values gets great success and happiness, whereas his love interest who gets into countercultural movements and wants to be independent dies of AIDS 'a virus'. 

To be fair his ‘love interest’ uses him the entire movie (taking advantage of his mental deficiency as he can’t understand hes being used), while she’s with other guys who treat her like garbage, and then finally decides to marry him only when it’s confirmed that she’s gonna die of a terminal disease in like a month so she can once again have him nurse her till the end, so not much sympathies there bro….

Also no way that kid is Forrest’s….

 

Edited January 29 by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II

[Zorral]

31 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

What will it be ma'am, the usual horses-and-elephants, or are you willing to try the day's special?

You forgot the ships!  

You know me -- blood and thunder history, intrique, betrayal, gods and goddesses, heroes and heroines, good army stuff.  Or the occasional cops/corrupt politicians/etc. -- but no no no! romance, love, etc.  Nonono!  

Right now I have no time for exploration again -- no watching time at all in about three weeks, none, none, none.  No reading time either.  Not until late March.

Actually, what I meant about not watching Indian film, is I meant the Hindi stuff.

Edited January 29 by Zorral

[DMC]

First, have to say I reject this premise that any film is made based on political ideology.  I don't know too many people in the industry, but those that I do I guarantee you do not give a shit about ideology when they're writing. 

Further, I have a really hard time thinking Bob Zemeckis and Eric Roth of all people had a political agenda with Forrest Gump.  Rather, what they had, and all filmmakers have, is a sociological perspective.  You might think that's a distinction without a difference, but the distinction is - quite literally in certain states* - crucial.

On Forrest Gump, I understand the antipathy to a point.  It is, of course, boomer catnip with not much there there.  But it's also extremely well done, replete with shots that are still used in film classes and iconic scenes/instances/whatever that are very fun satirize, as seen above.

On 300, I just kinda watched it about a month ago simply cuz it came on the TV while I was busy on my laptop.  I suppose this is something for the incels, but all I see is a dumb fun movie trying to entertain people.  What individuals take from things should not be attributed to its creators.

*Here in Florida the Sociology class was just eliminated as a Gen Ed option.  That may sound harmless, but it will cost friends of mine jobs.  And there's absolutely no reason for this other than DeSantis and the Tallahassee legislature have an easier time attacking a field that includes Karl Marx as essential reading.  Fuck that and fuck them, but the distinction between "political" and "sociological" is pretty key.