Zorral Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 As religion is the subject of the nonce, and it is Good Friday, and numero uno jerkwaddie is flogging fake Bibles -- here is an interesting read which is religiously adjacent at the very least by Marilynne Robinson. The meaning of Hagar The Bible’s human authors put characters in play for a reason. What were they trying to tell us with the servant girl cast in the wilderness? https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/03/29/marilynne-robinson-reading-genesis-meaning-hagar-excerpt/. As a kid, the story of Hagar was the most interesting story in the Bible. The older I got the more interesting -- and more mysterious it got, combining as it does the perpetual family drama when there is slavery in the family. And, of course divine and angelic meddling, and the foundation of two peoples, the Hebrews and the Arabs -- by the same father -- and so with God The Father -- by divine intercession -- and this was long before Jesus, who was supposed to be for all people. The similarities were obvious to me long before I learned enough about the history of Islam, the biography of Muhammed, and the Quran, to remark on all the similarities in all three of the Books, not only to each other but their mutual borrowings from so many other peoples' tales, mythologies and sacred texts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 39 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said: He lacks basic critical thinking skills from what you described. He’s allowing his beliefs to override his critical thinking skills… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 3 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: This fellow is more thoughtful than most and we’ve had these discussions over the phone from time to time. He’s sincere in his beliefs and sincere in how he interacts. I'm sure he is. And my statement holds. A very sincere evangelical sincerely believes that if you don't believe like he does, you will go to hell. You will live in damnation and torture for eternity. Based on that sincere belief, there is virtually nothing that should be not considered when thinking about how to save someone's soul. Having a theocratic government that is repressive and restricts non-evangelical freedoms is not remotely the worst thing you can do. Prince of the North and Durckad 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: He’s allowing his beliefs to override his critical thinking skills… As do so many .... Ser Scot A Ellison and DireWolfSpirit 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) Yep im seeing lots of articles over Christians taking great umbrage over Trump hawking thier book like a greasy carni barker out for your pocket change. Reminds me of the Martin Sheen lines in Wall Street to his son about not waking up with regrets because he didnt get in bed with a foul being in the first place. Ah here it is- Edited March 29 by DireWolfSpirit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 18 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said: Yep im seeing lots of articles over Christians taking great umbrage over Trump hawking thier book like a greasy carni barker out for your pocket change. Reminds me of the Martin Sheen lines in Wall Street to his son about not waking up with regrets because he didnt get in bed with a foul being in the first place. Ah here it is- I’m a Christian I’ve never been “in bed” with Trump. I know lots and lots of Church goers who have objected to Trump from the start. Ormond and Zorral 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 25 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I’m a Christian I’ve never been “in bed” with Trump. I know lots and lots of Church goers who have objected to Trump from the start. And yet a good number of them probably also voted for him and will so again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 15 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said: And yet a good number of them probably also voted for him and will so again. Hey! A whole 24% of white evangelicals voted for Biden in 2020! LongRider 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 18 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said: And yet a good number of them probably also voted for him and will so again. But not enough to claim that all Christians, by virtue of being Christian, are jointly responsible for Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conflicting Thought Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 4 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: But not enough to claim that all Christians, by virtue of being Christian, are jointly responsible for Trump. maybe, but christians should question why so many of them go for someone like trump, i think that there is a correlation there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 9 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said: maybe, but christians should question why so many of them go for someone like trump, i think that there is a correlation there To be fair, Catholics actually slightly favored Biden in 2020 (52-47). Even 44% of white Catholics voted for Biden. The religious right isn't really a "Christian" problem, it's primarily a white evangelical problem. Ormond, Durckad, Mr. Chatywin et al. and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said: maybe, but christians should question why so many of them go for someone like trump, i think that there is a correlation there I’m always very leery of this type of generalisation... I think the issue is that any sample of humanity you look at you’ll find all sorts, the good, the bad, the ugly, as it were. It’s no different for Christians or evangelicals, left wing, right wing, whatever. Point is, nasty bigots will flock to politicians like Trump b/c he gives them the go ahead to be their worst selves, and these folks come from all sorts of social, religious, economic, etc backgrounds. There might be a high incidence of certain strains of deeply religious people who fall for a con man like Trump b/c some tend to blindly follow what their bad pastors tell them; the pastors who abuse their flocks’ faith for personal gain and who are, of course, very similar to Trump. Edited March 29 by kissdbyfire Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 16 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said: maybe, but christians should question why so many of them go for someone like trump, i think that there is a correlation there I do. It’s shameful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 11 minutes ago, DMC said: To be fair, Catholics actually slightly favored Biden in 2020 (52-47). Even 44% of white Catholics voted for Biden. The religious right isn't really a "Christian" problem, it's primarily a white evangelical problem. Depending on where the decimal points are, that 52-47 may mean that Catholics voted slightly to the left of the country as a whole. Certainly better than 2016, when they went 52-44 for Trump. But that's the only time they were pretty out-of-sync with the overall vote this century. In 2012, they went 50-48 for Obama, 2008 was 54-45 Obama, 2004 was 52-47 Bush, and 2000 was 50-47 Gore. While white evangelicals are the biggest problem, it's really all Protestants that are an issue. Even in 2008, McCain won them 54-45. If the Reformation never happened, Democrats would probably never lose another election. (Hi everyone!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 30 minutes ago, Fez said: Depending on where the decimal points are, that 52-47 may mean that Catholics voted slightly to the left of the country as a whole. Certainly better than 2016, when they went 52-44 for Trump. But that's the only time they were pretty out-of-sync with the overall vote this century. In 2012, they went 50-48 for Obama, 2008 was 54-45 Obama, 2004 was 52-47 Bush, and 2000 was 50-47 Gore. While white evangelicals are the biggest problem, it's really all Protestants that are an issue. Even in 2008, McCain won them 54-45. If the Reformation never happened, Democrats would probably never lose another election. (Hi everyone!) Welcome back. So Catholics have been 5/6 this century for presidential picks? Papal polling ftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 34 minutes ago, Fez said: (Hi everyone!) Hi! Good to hear from you! The interesting thing about White Protestants in the 2020 exits is that while they voted for Trump 72 to 27 and accounted for 31% of the electorate, within that population, White Evangelicals voted 76 to 24 for Trump and accounted for 28% of the electorate. So...it would appear that very few White Protestants do not identify as evangelical or born-again. Which is fairly surprising. I suppose many "lapsed" white protestants on the exit poll simply chose no religious affiliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 2 hours ago, DMC said: Hey! A whole 24% of white evangelicals voted for Biden in 2020! Bless their hearts. 2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: But not enough to claim that all Christians, by virtue of being Christian, are jointly responsible for Trump. Not all, just a lot, and it should stand out that he's the type of figure the Bible specifically warns against yet so many love him. Kind of makes sense that people who are atheists/agnostics tend to actually know more about the Bible than people who claim it's the center of their world view. And Trump has only further corrupted the Christians that support him. DireWolfSpirit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A True Kaniggit Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) My niece and I yesterday painted 24 eggs in various colors and designs to spare all of us from the wrath of the Bunny Gods. Are you doing your part? Edited March 29 by A True Kaniggit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 1 hour ago, Fez said: (Hi everyone!) You've failed me for the first time and the last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 55 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said: Welcome back. So Catholics have been 5/6 this century for presidential picks? Papal polling ftw Depending on how you want to define Gorsuch, 6 or 7 of the SC Justices are Catholics. That's pretty stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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