US Politics: A democratic election Prospect Theory and practice

[Zorral]

24 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Interesting article about the decline in religious beliefs and participation in the US.   The link goes to an Washington Post article saved at archive.today.com

Americans who’ve given up religion often point to anti-LGBTQ+ teachings - The Washington Post (archive.is)

I was about to link to this too -- 

Regarding the discussion here regarding religious affiliations or not --

Shared/gift link -- lots of graphs, etc.

https://wapo.st/49tTGaZ

The conclusion of the piece:

Quote

 

That said, the decline in Christian religious identity, the drop that sits at the heart of so much of Trump’s rhetoric, is real and heavily centered among White Christians. But while Trump uses this decline to advocate for right-wing policies, hostility to LGBTQ+ relationships — an element of right-wing and particularly conservative Christian politics — is one of the reasons for that decline in the first place.

In other words, attempting to restore the sort of Christian power that Trump embraces would probably have the effect of pushing more people away from Christianity.

 

 

[Zorral]

1 minute ago, Larry of the Lawn said:

That's not so simple either.  Some sects do recognize a bunch of deities.  

More than that -- many religions are ecumenical, i.e. one can authentically be part of more than one religious community -- this is particularly so in many African communities, and quite a few Asian ones too.

This is something that traditional Jewish, Christian and Muslim faith holders cannot wrap their brains around, much less US based pollsters -- more than one idea at a time!

[Darzin]

49 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

What people mean by "God" and even "believe" often go undefined in these arguments. And they're a lot harder to unpack than people often think. Once you wave away the authoritarian fundie nonsense, at least.

Yeah most people get very squishy on this topic and put it in a separate box. That's probably a good thing but I understand unhinged zealots way more than lukewarm believers if this stuff is real it REALLY matters. 

40 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Interesting article about the decline in religious beliefs and participation in the US.   The link goes to an Washington Post article saved at archive.today.com

Americans who’ve given up religion often point to anti-LGBTQ+ teachings - The Washington Post (archive.is)

Despite that it's the LGBT accepting denominations that are hemorrhaging members the most. Most people who leave more conservatives denominations myself included don't then hop over to the Episcopal Church. Liberal Christianity is pretty moribund and I don't see it getting revived. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

27 minutes ago, Zorral said:

I was about to link to this too -- 

Regarding the discussion here regarding religious affiliations or not --

Shared/gift link -- lots of graphs, etc.

https://wapo.st/49tTGaZ

The conclusion of the piece:

 

I got blocked by an Evangelical Trump supporter last night who refused to believe I was Christian because I stand firmly behind the idea that the “Free Exercise” clause necessarily protects the right of people to be free from compelled religious beliefs.  

He seems to believe it means he should be free to force people to worship as he does because that is his “belief”.  The idea that it protects all beliefs went right over his head and really pissed him off.

Edited March 28 by Ser Scot A Ellison

[Phylum of Alexandria]

Speaking of supernatural phenomena, I keep getting asked by the site if I am a human being. Is anyone else getting this?

I did the whole clearing cache thing, but still get this for pretty much any clink on a link. 

For the record, I am not a fairy, a spirit, or one of Cyberdyne's machines. I am in fact a human being. Can we move on from the pestering?

[kissdbyfire]

Just now, Phylum of Alexandria said:

Speaking of supernatural phenomena, I keep getting asked by the site if I am a human being. Is anyone else getting this?

 

I am, but only on Safari.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

12 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I am, but only on Safari.

I closed the site and then came back.  Haven’t seen it sence doing that.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

38 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said:

That's not so simple either.  Some sects do recognize a bunch of deities.  

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is more that some people practice both Buddhism and then another religion that does as there's no conflict in doing so. I think what makes Life of Pi fascinating is that Pi believes in several religions that can have very conflicting viewpoints while also finding atheism to be an interesting concept.  

[kissdbyfire]

3 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I closed the site and then came back.  Haven’t seen it sence doing that.

I tried that, but still get the same thing when I refresh the page. And on Android phone it doesn’t happen but then it’s the annoying “431” over and over again. I’ll try smoke signals next. 

[Darzin]

20 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

Speaking of supernatural phenomena, I keep getting asked by the site if I am a human being. Is anyone else getting this?

I did the whole clearing cache thing, but still get this for pretty much any clink on a link. 

For the record, I am not a fairy, a spirit, or one of Cyberdyne's machines. I am in fact a human being. Can we move on from the pestering?

Yeah I thought it was just my VPN and/or the Chinese firewall. Seems Ran may be trying to sus out any Cylons among us. 

[Phylum of Alexandria]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is more that some people practice both Buddhism and then another religion that does as there's no conflict in doing so. I think what makes Life of Pi fascinating is that Pi believes in several religions that can have very conflicting viewpoints while also finding atheism to be an interesting concept.

What I've seen of Chinese and Japanese Buddhism reminded me of Catholicism. Hell, demons, shame, lots of superstitious rites. I think the ascetic philosophy merged with various folk traditions over time and became something quite unique.

[horangi]

44 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

Speaking of supernatural phenomena, I keep getting asked by the site if I am a human being. Is anyone else getting this?

I'm getting it as well.  Just so long as it doesn't start asking me to pick out crosswalks and fire hydrants I am OK. Because I am most definitely not a human according to that test.

Edited March 28 by horangi

[Zorral]

51 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

peaking of supernatural phenomena, I keep getting asked by the site if I am a human being. Is anyone else getting this?

I am too.  On Chrome.  Also, starting yesterday, this site loads very veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery slooooooooooooooowly.

These are happening only on this site.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Both Biden and that jerk are in NYC today.  Biden is doing a two day fund-raising, meet-and-greet, including an event at Radio City Music Hall tonight -- no press.  That jerk is here for tonight's memorial for a cop that got killed.

The point of this post is yet another warning of how much cop forces in the US everywhere are cultivated and coddled by that jerk's ilks, just starting with their vast arsenals of military grade weapons.  No matter how things go here in November, we need to be braced for serious fascist armed violence, one deeply fears.  It's the playbook, after all, and calls for it in one way or another come constantly from that jerk's mouth, and those who are using him as their shadow shield as they plot take-over.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

More fun than the above for NYC -- the opening day of the baseball season.  Sadly, it's raining all day and into the night.  Nevertheless the public radio station continues its tradition of Opening Day to do  a long segment on baseball.  Today, it's around the history of baseball as a NY game, and how that happened, including writing the rule-book.  It's quite interesting as a part of NYC history. 

Edited March 28 by Zorral

[Larry of the Lawn]

1 hour ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is more that some people practice both Buddhism and then another religion that does as there's no conflict in doing so. I think what makes Life of Pi fascinating is that Pi believes in several religions that can have very conflicting viewpoints while also finding atheism to be an interesting concept.  

My girlfriend's temple not only recognizes the bulk of the Hindu pantheon, but also actively has prayers to specific deities.  But from what understand, they refer to themselves as Buddhists and consider these deities to all be aspects of a larger god (I'm almost, but not quite embarrassed to admit that most of my discussion with her about this have been related to seeing how similar it is to Bakker's ontology in Second Apocalypse.).  I think she practices a form of Mahayana Buddhism.  

And a Buddhist temple I visited in college for a religion class had shrines of Shiva and Vishnu and a couple other Hindu gods.  

I'm sure that what you describe is also true, but there are definitely Buddhists who recognize various deities.  Whether or not that makes them theists or their practice of Buddhism theistic vs atheistic I couldn't really say.  I suppose it would depend on a few different things.

 

Edited March 28 by Larry of the Lawn

[horangi]

40 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said:

And a Buddhist temple I visited in college for a religion class had shrines of Shiva and Vishnu and a couple other Hindu gods.  

 

Straying a bit from the primary thread topic, but I visited a temple in Taiwan that had the aforementioned shrines but also one to Jesus... and Pikachu.  I get the impression Buddhism basically accepts whatever it takes to get you in touch with the divine (peacefully) is all good. 

Edited March 28 by horangi

[Kalbear]

Sam Bankman Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison. I thought a comment by Robert Reich was pretty accurate - the rich get punished only when they steal from other rich people. 

[Wilbur]

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I got blocked by an Evangelical Trump supporter last night who refused to believe I was Christian because I stand firmly behind the idea that the “Free Exercise” clause necessarily protects the right of people to be free from compelled religious beliefs.  

He seems to believe it means he should be free to force people to worship as he does because that is his “belief”.  The idea that it protects all beliefs went right over his head and really pissed him off.

This is a widespread criticism of many Evangelical Christians, and indeed is the driver for the seminal work, "The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind".  William Gross says that the causes are threefold: cultural, theological, and institutional, and I recommend the first link as a good summary of why so many otherwise seemingly good Christians are fooled by Trump.  If you think that Trump's turn towards Bob Tilton's hawking of trinkets via Prosperity Gospel and supporting appurtenances is just a coincidence, think again.

Anecdote:  I came back to the States for college, and naturally the school assigned an insular kid from Ohio to be my roommate.  He was devoutly Christian and fully patriotic, but could not wrap his head around simple ideas.  For instance, he did not believe that a Russian person could be patriotic toward Russia and also a Christian at the same time (this was during the Cold War).  He felt that the Russian person who was a Christian would need to hate Russia and love America.  I could never convince him that this idea lacked intellectual consistency.

This mental inflexibility seems to be a hallmark of Trump supporters.  Bob Tilton would send you a prayer hanky if you sent him a donation, and Donald Trump will sell you a Bible if you send him a donation.  They both work the same audience / customer base.

Edited March 28 by Wilbur
added links

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

40 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

He felt that the Russian person who was a Christian would need to hate Russia and love America.  I could never convince him that this idea lacked intellectual consistency.

:facepalm:

”Patriotic Churches” always seem contradictory to me.  Christ wasn’t an American.  He didn’t (per our beliefs) come to save only the US and its citizens.  Yet… it seems like many Evangelical Christians think just that.

:facepalm:

(thank you for the link I plan to read)

Edited March 28 by Ser Scot A Ellison

[Ormond]

5 hours ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

But therein lies the rub, you can both be an atheist in the technical sense and buy into a cult that behaves with similar tendencies of religion. And then there is Buddhism, one of the largest religions in the world that doesn't recognize a deity. A Buddhist can both be described as an atheist and religious at the same time. 

 

The idea that most Buddhists are "atheists" seems to be a big misunderstanding to me. Buddhism may not have a "Creator God" concept or an idea that there is a God/Goddess who is omniscient or omnoipotent, but they certainly have a belief in a separate realm of spiritual existence where there are many powerful beings -- often specifically called gods or goddesses -- who can have some influence on humans. Wikipedia has an article on Buddist dieties that explains the variety of such beings that many Buddhists believe in.  There are probably some highly educated and sophisticated Buddhists who would accept "atheist" as a self-definition, but they would be a minority among adherents of that religion. For the most part, people who call Buddhists "atheists" are adherents of Western religions who think if you don't believe in an omnipotent Creator you are an "atheist", which would make all sorts of polytheists "atheists", which seems untenable to me. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_deities

 

[Zorral]

Trump Bibles make a mockery of Christianity — and that's exactly why MAGA will eat them up
Faith without morality or theology, much less that "soyboy" Jesus? Sign MAGA Republicans up!

 The teachings of Jesus Christ were always a poor fit for Republicans. They're just way more into decimating Social Security than they are into loaves and fishes. What Trump offers when it comes to Christianity is what he offers his followers in every other aspect: permission to stop pretending to be good people. His gift to them is his shamelessness. Through Trump, his followers can realize their fantasies of being unapologetic bullies. This is the same schtick as MAGA members who claim to be "patriots" while attacking the rule of law and democracy. Trump tells them what they want to hear: You can be a Christian without compassion.  

https://www.salon.com/2024/03/28/bibles-make-a-mockery-of-christianity--and-thats-exactly-why-maga-will-eat-them-up/

Quote

 

... it's time to consider the strong possibility that Trump's disdain towards the practice and theological beliefs of Christianity is not a surprise to his followers. It's likely a selling point that Trump's version of "Christianity" is void of faith and morality. His pitch to his followers has a certain appeal: They can have the identity "Christian," and all the power that goes with it, minus the parts they don't like. No boring church services or Bible study. No tedious talk about "compassion" and "grace," which only gets in the way of the gay-bashing and racism. And definitely no need to worry about that Jesus guy, with all his notions about "loving thy neighbor" and "welcoming the stranger."

Their new lord is Trump himself. He's a lot more fun for the redhats since his message is "kick thy neighbor" and "build the wall." Frankly, I'm sure most of them find it a huge relief, not having to pretend they ever cared about that peace-and-charity crap. ....