Lost Season 6 Thread - The Final Countdown

[Gertrude]

Don't get me started again, I've just calmed down.

Quick question - did the light fade from the cave when the smoke monster left it? First time through I thought it did, but on second viewing, it looked like it dimmed, but didn't go all the way out.

[Caligula_K]

Don't get me started again, I've just calmed down.

Quick question - did the light fade from the cave when the smoke monster left it? First time through I thought it did, but on second viewing, it looked like it dimmed, but didn't go all the way out.

I'll check this out later, but I can't image it all went out. I mean, I'm pretty sure we saw the light each time Ben and Locke turned the wheel, and if the electromagnetic energy is the light, it's still present in the island.

[Gertrude]

Um, duh. You're right. I wasn't thinking. So am I even right about it dimming I wonder?

edit: I actually did think about it at the time (I just remembered). I was figuring that even if the light could not be seen in the cave anymore, part of it was still around deep underground. I was wondering if Smokey captured any or most of it and that is (part of the reason) why he can't leave the island. They have to address this some more, right? I mean, they won't just leave us to wonder what the Smoke actually is, right? Someone reassure me, quick.

I mean, as far as we know there is no real reason why Smokey can't leave, right? I have guesses and ideas, but no real reason has been given to us other than vague statements of 'evil'.

[Shryke]

Something I was reading pointed me towards Twaret again, so I decided to look that up. Found some interesting stuff on Wiki concerning Egyptian Mythology:

The statue was Taweret. Jacob lived there. Taweret's consort was Apep.

Apep was the God of Evil, the Eater of Souls and was constantly being re-imprisoned in the underworld, lest he escape. He was also seen as a giant snake or dragon with a head of flint. (flint == black)

And some more:

Tales of Apep's battles against Ra were elaborated during the New Kingdom. Since nearly everyone can see that the sun is not attacked by a giant snake during the day, every day, storytellers said that Apep must lie just below the horizon. In some stories Apep waited for Ra in a western mountain called Bakhu, where the sun set, and in others Apep lurked just before dawn

It was thought that his terrifying roar would cause the underworld to rumble. Myths sometimes say that Apep was trapped there, because he had been the previous chief god and suffered a coup d'etat by Ra, or because he was evil and had been imprisoned.

In his battles, Apep was thought to use a magical gaze to hypnotize Ra and his entourage

The Egyptians practiced a number of rituals and superstitions that were thought to ward off Apep, and aid Ra to continue his journey across the sky.

In an annual rite, called the Banishing of Apep, priests would build an effigy of Apep that was thought to contain all of the evil and darkness in Egypt, and burn it to protect everyone from Apep's influence for another year

Fearing that even the image of Apep could give power to the demon, any rendering would always include another deity to subdue the monster, and/or knives already stabbed into him.

[Demonblade]

I couldn't be arsed to check the old thread to see if anybody already mentioned this because I didn't read much posts since the last episode (I was initially devastated in my disappointment), but could it be that MiB is not Jacob's brother at all? His brother died, and the evil entity that escaped from the cave (or whatever the fuck happened there simply took Jacob's brother's appearance because of the available dead bodies on the island his was the only one Jacob would recognise other than his mother, leaving the choice a toss-up between the two? It makes sense because Jacob doesn't call MiB his brother to Hurley, but rather 'an old friend who grew tired of my company'. He knows that MiB is not his brother. MiB is something else, and we're likely not to find out what exactly.

[Shryke]

I couldn't be arsed to check the old thread to see if anybody already mentioned this because I didn't read much posts since the last episode (I was initially devastated in my disappointment), but could it be that MiB is not Jacob's brother at all? His brother died, and the evil entity that escaped from the cave (or whatever the fuck happened there simply took Jacob's brother's appearance because of the available dead bodies on the island his was the only one Jacob would recognise other than his mother, leaving the choice a toss-up between the two? It makes sense because Jacob doesn't call MiB his brother to Hurley, but rather 'an old friend who grew tired of my company'. He knows that MiB is not his brother. MiB is something else, and we're likely not to find out what exactly.

I think ti's somewhat his brother. The same way Fake Locke is somewhat Locke.

[Kelli Fury]

Yeah the flashback (well, flash forward, or whatever) annoyed me as well, particularly since in the past, Lost hasn't really gone out of it's way to give the audience notice when answering mysteries (like the "blink-and-you'll-miss-it" polar bear explanation)

How was the polar bear explanation blink and you'll miss it? Kate and Sawyer were locked in the polar bear cages for at least an episode.

[Foreverlad]

How was the polar bear explanation blink and you'll miss it? Kate and Sawyer were locked in the polar bear cages for at least an episode.

Think it was in reference to how the polar bears were used to turn the frozen donkey wheel. We get a quick glimpse of a P-bear corpse in the desert after the wheel got turned.

[delete this account pls]

Yeah what Nerdanel said - it was in one of the Dharma initiation movies in season 2.

[Jaxom 1974]

Think it was in reference to how the polar bears were used to turn the frozen donkey wheel. We get a quick glimpse of a P-bear corpse in the desert after the wheel got turned.

They turned the wheel? I always had the impression it was used as an experiment to see what happened once the wheel was turned...

[Trebla]

I think ti's somewhat his brother. The same way Fake Locke is somewhat Locke.

A question I have is whether MiB knows he is dead. He said that Jacob trapped him on the island, took his humanity and he lost someone he loves. That would either be mother or Jacob.

Anyhow, the smoke monster took MiB's form but not by aminating his body since it is still in the caves. So perhaps it is his spirit that smoke monster took. A spirit like Michael's that is not able to move on. I would think that their mother is still trapped on the island as well for the murders she committed.

[Jaxom 1974]

Anyhow, the smoke monster took MiB's form but not by aminating his body since it is still in the caves. So perhaps it is his spirit that smoke monster took. A spirit like Michael's that is not able to move on. I would think that their mother is still trapped on the island as well for the murders she committed.

Two things bother me about the idea that the mother's spirit is still on the island (if you mean the adopitve mother and not the Latin girl she killed, which I think you did): 1. A spirit that strong should have made an appearance to someone on the island already, i.e. Hurley. 2. That means we'll have to have Allison Janney come back and ham up some acting with material that is truly not in her wheelhouse...

[unJon]

A question I have is whether MiB knows he is dead. He said that Jacob trapped him on the island, took his humanity and he lost someone he loves. That would either be mother or Jacob.

He also said that Jacob stole his body, which pretty much answers your question.

[Guest Raidne]

Raids, I think the reason they did it was to show that Jacob, Mother's, and the MIB's story has direct significance to the Losties' lives. They were trying to show us a connection, a link. The story is coming full circle.

But...they have all directly interacted with each other. The whole story is about those interactions. So the significance of the story for the lives of the main characters is not something that needs to be uncovered - it's the major plotline. I did appreciate getting the story in full, which is because it's obviously relevant to the current story. If it wasn't, and the link needed to uncovered, I wouldn't care.

I am unconvinced that there is any trilogy of characters that matter more than the rest. Would it be Jack/Locke/Kate, or Jack/Sawyer/Locke, and why not Hurley? I think you could argue that Jack is the most central, maybe, but other than that, all our major characters that are left are our major characters, without any three meaning to relate to the Mother/Jacob/MiB story, for me.

...could it be that MiB is not Jacob's brother at all?

As of now, I agree with Shryke. It's not any more Jacob's brother than it is Locke.

He also said that Jacob stole his body, which pretty much answers your question.

When was this? I would like to revisit the episode on Lostpedia.

[Harren the Black]

When was this? I would like to revisit the episode on Lostpedia.

That was in the Richard-centric episode, episode 9.

[Jaxom 1974]

I am unconvinced that there is any trilogy of characters that matter more than the rest. Would it be Jack/Locke/Kate, or Jack/Sawyer/Locke, and why not Hurley? I think you could argue that Jack is the most central, maybe, but other than that, all our major characters that are left are our major characters, without any three meaning to relate to the Mother/Jacob/MiB story, for me.

Hmmmm...I don't know about that. Jack/Sawyer/Locke seems to be the trilogy that's emerged. In some ways, theyr'e very much like Kirk/Spock/McCoy in that there is the one ruled by passion, the one ruled by logic and the one in the middle who sees both sides and finds himself generally refereeing the other two (even when he finds himself wavering back and forth between the two ideals).

This doesn't make the others any less important to the overall story, it just means they've become the role players around the other three. (So if Kate could go the way of Yoeman Rand and simply succumb to drugs and disappear from view, that's okay too.)

[marwyn]

Hm hm hm. I saw Across the Sea twice now, and i did like it quite a bit more the second time. It's not as bad as I thought it was.

After time travel, characters seeing dead people, smoke monsters taking over bodies, and mysterious immortal protectors , a glowing cave of light isn't really that much of a big step. (Hey, it's just electromagnetic energy right ;) ).

There's some things that bothered me, but in the end what Mother dearest said was true: Every question you ask only leads to another question. That was the writers directly adressing us. And with this story they wanted to show that everything goes in a circle: there have always been people protecting the island. We don't need to know everything about all of them.

How you can even attach a wheel to a glowing cave of light and then make it transport you to the Sahara is beyond me though. But okay. I guess we needed some kind of explanation for that.

As for going into the finale and not knowing what's ultimately at stake, I can say something about the next episode..

It ends with Flocke revealing he wants to destroy the island. Thud.

[red snow]

I thought the last episode was better than the richard one. It would have been nice for it to show how the temple and statue was built and whether they were there at that point (I'm wondering if the temple was built upon the gold light fountain). I'm pleased that it painted JAcob in a bad light as I've always suspected he was a bit of a git and now we know why MiB is pissed. The avoidance of giving Jacob's brother a name though really pissed me off - the only way they can salvage that one is if it is to hide a reveal eg he was called Aaron (although that wouldn't make any sense but you get my point)

It was a bit frustrating how a "ghost" was the method by which JAcob's brother was mislead as it leads to the circular answer raising another question. I think it was one of two things. The "mother" was also the ghost, which would fit as she was definitely manipulating both of "her" children. The other option is that the ghost was merely the smoke monster trying to find a way to escape; it was trapped within the light and required a host to escape. By tricking Jacob's brother it was able to escape and used him as a template for his body/personality.

Otherwise it was ok. I'm not sure what time period the "others" were from - the huts suggested ancient. Not sure how these people came up with the idea of creating a wheel that could harness the power of light and water though (although i'm not sure how anyone does that).

One gripe I had with the episode is that it looked very cheap/tacky. Espeically the golden well parts. I hope this is because they have blown the budget on the final episodes and not just them being crap.

I was relieved to discover that this wasn't the penultimate episode. I was even happier to find out that the last episode is 2.5 episodes. It gives them a bit more time to wrap things up.

[Werthead]

Apparently according to the script, the episode begins in 23 AD. That puts the stuff with the kids (which happened when they were 13) in 36 AD and the last section with them as adults some time post-66 AD (as MiB spent more than 30 years with the settlers).

[Kalbear]

That's interesting, because it clearly shows the writers researched the specific dates that would be involved here. Judging from the clothing they were wearing, the technological and philosophical information about using the frozen donkey wheel to teleport away and the general architecture, you can tell...

Oh fuck it. It won't make the slightest bit of difference and won't ever be even remotely mentioned.