Daredevil series 2: spoiler thread

[DaveSumm]

It's weird, other than everyone's expectation that there must be a villain and must be a climactic fight at the end, it almost feels like it didn't need a villain. The Punisher, Elektra, then Kingpin's machinations, then Punisher's escape.....that felt like enough. Even before Fisk showed up, it didn't feel like it as missing a villain. Agreed that it would've tied things up much more neatly if Stick was the blacksmith, then just leave him and Matt on bad terms. There gonna need a far better leader for the Hand if they are planning to carry it over to Defenders.

[GallowKnight]

I don't get why they didn't tie the Blacksmith stuff to the Yakuza and brough in Punisher on the whole Hand plot.

[briantw]

13 minutes ago, Ran said:

 

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I do agree that Elektra dying now does mean that the iconic death at the hands of Bullseye -- who I _have_ to think is coming with S3 -- will lose a lot of its punch, to the point where they may go and do something completely different. But Bullseye... yeah, we need to see him. That'd be cool.

 

Spoiler

Well, they could always have him kill Karen instead.  That would prompt roughly the same reaction in Matt.

 

[Ran]

1 minute ago, briantw said:

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Well, they could always have him kill Karen instead.  That would prompt roughly the same reaction in Matt.

 

Spoiler

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[polishgenius]

 

Spoiler

Bullseye is definitely going to kill Karen. Unless they hold off for several seasons and until after the Hand are crushed to have him kill Elektra so they can't bring her back, but even then, a lot of the effect will be lost - and I can't see them being that patient anyway. 

 

Eta: what the fuck is with the spoiler box cutting off halfway through? Has anyone else had that?

[Jon AS]

40 minutes ago, Ran said:

Fan wikis are calling the Netflix universe 'Earth-1999999' for some reason, but in any case, not a comic thing.

I always assumed that was Marvel's official designation for the MCU.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Just saw that bit in episode 4, Berenthal's monologue about coming home from war and seeing his daughter. Holy cow that was heartbreaking and incredible. He's managed to elevate the story and show far above where it really should be. I can't tell if the writing is any good, because his perfomance is so excellent that he could be saying the most poor quality lines and it would be oscar worthy! Hes so good as Punisher.

Having said that, I'm not sure I'd want to watch a whole Punisher series, I think it would get a little bit one note.

[The Anti-Targ]

I'm only half way through the season. Liking it a lot so far, but I think it's crazy that they had Matt keep Elektra a secret from Foggy, since he knew about her from before. The whole break up before they make up thing between Matt and Foggy is going to be very tiresome if it happens every season, especially with Matt doing the whole secrets and lies thing. There's plenty of tension to be built between Matt and Foggy simply with the Daredevil stuff, and Foggy could have gotten just as incensed at Matt along the lines of "Elektra is screwing with your life again! and You're in denial about it." as opposed to you've been lying to me again.

I'm going to assume that Elektra is going to be outed to Karen and Matt will choose to keep Daredevil a secret and thereby the romantic relationship with Karen will be over, as of the end of the season. Perhaps in season 3 he'll bring Karen into team daredevil. This is all speculation since, as I've said I'm only half way through.

John Berenthal is a brilliant Punisher. great casting catch for the show. I think Elektra is a good character, but they haven't gone into much depth with her character yet.

[Mladen]

On episode 8... God, I am slow this year Usually, it takes me 2,3 days, but damn work and life and obligations...

That last scene was phenomenal. I missed Fisk so much... I am not the greatest fan of Matt being MIA during the trial because the TV show always operated on that dualism, which is gone this season. As for Elektra v Karen, it is story old as time. Dangerous, sexy, deadly foreigner v girl next door your mum would be thrilled to meet. I think that in these 8 episodes, Matt as the character is somewhat missing.

The acting in this show is superb. Like, Charlie Cox is amazing, absolutely owning every single scene. The more I watch him, the better he is. There is something rather natural in his approach to blindness, religion and even chemistry with the women.

I will say it. Of all the MC(TV)U villains, DD has the best. First Fisk, now Punisher. Absolutely amazing...

[Winterfell is Burning]

Finished it. It has some problems, specially too many plotlines, but it was still pretty good. I have to agree that having

Nobu kill Elektra

was just stupid, though.

 

8 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

What exactly is the timeline with these shows? I assumed they were set roughly when they aired, but I noticed Fisk said they met in the art museum 'a few months ago', as if if S2 came hot on the heels of S1. Obviously JJ had to fit in there somewhere, doesn't seem like there's enough time.

There's no reason why JJ and DD couldn't have run simultaneously.

 

[HexMachina]

2 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Finished it. It has some problems, specially too many plotlines, but it was still pretty good. I have to agree that having

Hidden Content

was just stupid, though.

 

There's no reason why JJ and DD couldn't have run simultaneously.

 

They couldn't. Claire mentions having worked on Luke in episode 3(?) so DD season 2 is after JJ season 1

eta; actually rereading your post it looks like you mean DD season 1, so nevermind

[Dr. Pepper]

That started out really good though it felt like it fizzled out there at the end.  Some things felt like they came from nowhere.  Like the Blacksmith, it's like he was tossed in just for reasons.  It also made zero sense that the Colonel would go on that shooting rampage, setting up Frank after he escaped prison.  No one was even looking for the Colonel, so that shooting rampage basically only resulted in outing himself.  Elektra as the Black Sky also felt like it came out of nowhere, though that particular story isn't very interesting to me so I barely pay attention to it.

The very first comic book thing I ever saw was The Punisher.  It must have been at least a decade ago, but it was the thing that got me interested in comic book stuff, at least watching it.  I had no clue that character would be in Daredevil so it was a lovely surprise.  Jon Bernthal's blew it out of the water.  He acted the shit out of so many scenes that it's hard to choose a favorite, though that five minute monologue in the cemetery was pretty amazing, if only for the fact that a tv show had a secondary character giving such a long monologue.  

On a superficial note, I have to say that I appreciate what this show does with hair.  One of my biggest pet peeve's is how overdone and perfect hair is on tv and in film, especially on women.  It drives me nuts to see perfectly styled hair, especially when it doesn't match the action, dialogue or scene.  Daisy and May on Agents of SHIELD drive me nuts with no hair ever getting out of place even after an intense fight scene.  But here, the hair worked.  When Karen was running late because she didn't wake up in time, her hair reflected that.  When Foggy was hot and sweaty, his hair reflected that.  Elektra had her hair tied back when fighting (except for that last scene, which annoyed me).  Yeah, I have this thing about hair.  Glad this show gets it mostly right.  

[briantw]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

That started out really good though it felt like it fizzled out there at the end.  Some things felt like they came from nowhere.  Like the Blacksmith, it's like he was tossed in just for reasons.  It also made zero sense that the Colonel would go on that shooting rampage, setting up Frank after he escaped prison.  No one was even looking for the Colonel, so that shooting rampage basically only resulted in outing himself.  

I thought he was just tying up loose ends, with the added benefit of having a patsy to blame for all the deaths.

[Sci-2]

Finished the series yesterday, tho I was in & out by the time the last ep played. Will have to rewatch that one to make sure I got everything.

Unlike many I liked the Hand stuff, the idea of the Black Sky - even the reveal of Elektra made sense to me. Though now I'm wondering - did Stick kill the other Black Sky in Season 1 or not? 

We still don't even know what the blood draining of those kids-turned-cultists was, so hopefully that ends up making sense and fleshing out exactly what the Black Sky is supposed to be. Just the guiding power of the Hand? Or vessel for some dark power? Will Elektra be a sort of Eva Green in Penny Dreadful character?

I think the Blacksmith thing was definitely a bit of a let down though there was some hinting at the identity given the heroin was coming from the Middle East and Reyes make a point of asking, "How do we know what really happened?" with regards to the oddly classified mission.

Foggy & Karen were good, and I'm glad both got away from Matt for at least a little while. It was good to see him learn his lesson at the end and not keep this secret from Karen. Karen as a journalist was nice, though I do think giving her Ben's office felt a bit unrealistic. And I hope Foggy didn't actually make partner immediately...pretty sure he didn't but after Star Trek remake you never know.

[RumHam]

17 hours ago, Morpheus said:

I think they are setting The Hand up to be the threat for The Defenders. I think Season 3 could be about the Kingpin again and his long game. I wonder if it would be too soon to do the Born Again story.

I was thinking about who would be the villain for The Defenders. It could be The Hand but I'm leaning more towards IGH. They already have connections to Jessica Jones and Luke Cage and could easily be revealed as the owners of the chemicals that blinded Daredevil. That'd just leave some reason for Iron Fist to hate them. 

[protar]

Finished it today. It was great, both the Punisher and Elektra where very compelling and ambiguous characters. And personally I love all the mystical stuff with The Hand so no real complaints there. The whole blood draining scene - one of the creepiest things I've seen on TV. I guess that The Hand will lie low for DD S3 (which will focus on Fisk's escape from prison, and Bullseye, maybe a third villain like Typhoid Mary) and then they'll return for the Defenders. So knowing that I didn't overly mind that not a lot about them was explained. All in good time.

I think the season had two main weaknesses. Firstly the lack of a central villain. Charismatic as Frank and Ellie where, they weren't villains, so there was just something missing without a Fisk like figure. Nobu in the last couple episodes just didn't cut it (anyone else think his death was a reference to

Garret in Season 1 of Agents of SHIELD?

Second weakness was that in the end the Punisher plot line got left behind. I was sure that they'd tie the Blacksmith into the Hand so that the Punisher would team up with DD and Elektra against them. The Colonel reveal didn't even register for me, I finished the season thinking the blacksmith stuff was unresolved. Feel kinda stupid, but in my defence, it was a very poor reveal and not explicitly said. 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Ok I'm still going through it slowly, I don't want to rush the whole thing, which I did with season 1. Finished episode 5, but again, another incredibly moving scene with Frank Castle, just trying to remember the details about his family, he's getting me every time!

I also want to say that I was initally skeptical of Electra, I mean.. I've seen the movie! I also didn't like what I saw from the trailer and was thinking that the last thing the show needed was another love story. However, the actress is great! Like really good. She really does have that annoying level of arrogance and aloofness for someone who has everything. I do like that spark between her and Matt as well, they play off each other really well, theres an interesting dynamic there.

[The BlackBear]

On 19/03/2016 at 4:01 PM, Kindly Old Man said:

The violence in this season was out of control. The scene with Stick having reeds shoved under his fingernails actually made me squirm, and I'm not particularly squeamish.

God yes, but in a good way right? Been a while since I've actually believed in a torture scene, and stuff under my fingernails is one of my squeamish things. But in general I feel you need that violence with punisher and a ninja death cult around.

 

On 20/03/2016 at 3:47 AM, The King In Black said:

Now, the big debate i believe is which was better.

 

Not the seasons, the fight scenes. Hallway or staircase ?

Castle in prison. My favourite thing was the way he just shanked people, no messing about just a big knife in the guts seven or eight times.

 

On 19/03/2016 at 9:21 PM, HelenaExMachina said:

I'm probably in a minority here but I actually quite like Karen-Matt relationship/attraction...

That scene in the rain... Damn.

 

Did  they explain what the Hand dug that hole for?

Liked the way he got a new mask early on, clearly listened to the criticism about the jaw on the old one.

Kingpin was great, but also Carrie Anne Moss nicely tied it into JJ.

How much weight was Kingpin meant to be pressing? There's ten plates on that fucking bar, that's like 200kg.

Castle's ending made me really sad. I never quite got the pain he must feel in the comics, no matter what he does it doesn't fix anything. His conversation with Karen in the diner was nice, you see the man he used to be and believe how he became who he is. Then of course like all good rogues: always shoot first.

It was pointed out on Imgur one of the headlines Karen looks through reads: Ebola patient goes out 'ebowling'

Been looking through some Easter egg things, as usual interesting stuff. Not seen where the SL cameo is yet though, is he a police picture again like in DD1 and JJ?

Is the ginger woman meant to be Typhoid Mary or someone else?

Wasn't buying all that nonsense about Matt not being able to see the Hand, how exactly does one mask their heartbeat and still run around? You're telling me Matt can pretty much hear everything in Hell's Kitchen but can't hear a ninja move until they breathe out? And if they can mask their clothes and sheathe's noises, why can't they mask their swords?

Was hoping for more of an Iron Fist tease with Gao.

We now know why Claire Temple ends up in Harlem I guess.

Foggy got a slight haircut, thank god. He absolutely killed it every time he was called on to lawyer up.

You bring the Chaste in but not Stone? Stick was clearly reporting to him last series.

[Martell Spy]

Just finished it. Great season overall. They kept some of the elements that made season 1 so good, and added some new ones. The Punisher really made this season.

Good parts: 1. The real high points of the season for me were various one on one conversations. This is pretty amazing since action is this show's main course. They had a lot of great action, but the very best parts of the season for me were scenes like the Punisher and Daredeveil on the rooftop, Punisher and Karen (Punisher giving love advice, lol), Punisher and the Kingpin, Claire and Daredevil in the hospital, Kingpin and Matt Murdach.

2. The action. More use of guns in the early season really livened things up. Matt losing his powers. It's always cool when they find ways to make him vulnerable like that. The earlier ninja scenes had more of an impact when they were a new thing, because of the comparison to previous opponents. When they were being chased in the car was in particular very cool. 

3. I actually liked the pawn shop scene. I like to see heroes and villains getting equipped, kind of like Breaking Bad gun buying scenes. Love how Daredevil has his own person gadgeteer and the new stick. I like how both his equipment and his powers are developing, such as him learning new ways to use his powers from Stick and Elektra

4. Foggy and the court scenes. 

5. The early law firm banter was awesome just like in season 1. It was sad to see the firm break up and i hope it's not permanent, but it seems like it'll be a while with Foggy and Karen in new jobs.

6. The Kingpin's rise was really well done. I knew something like this was coming, and kind of dreaded it because I thought it'd be lame. They did in a very effective manner, and Punisher in prison and meeting the Kingpin were actually some of the highlights of the season. The Kingpin's threats to Matt were pretty terrifying. Oh and his lawyer was pretty awsome as well.

7. Matt and Elektra. The flashback scenes. Stick, as always was fantastic. Hard to believe he called Matt a badass.

 

Bad parts: 1. The overall main plot was kind of convoluted and I still don't really understand it. It was better actually as a mystery, when there were only hints at what was going on. It looks like they are saving some revelations for later seasons, which may be a good long term strategy for later seasons, but hurt this season's impact some. The back story of the Hand and Chaste was great though.

2. Related to the first, Nobu really wasn't a great season villain. He was fantastic in the season 1 fight scene though. And they were very wise to bring in the Punisher and the Kingpin. It may have been a lackluster season with Just Nobu and the ninjas. The ninjas themselves I thought were pretty cool, although their impact wore off quite a bit as they were used more and towards the end of the season. The guy in the corporation would have probably been a better main villain.

3. Near end of the season was a letdown in general. Lots of the best parts of the story was over, and earlier action scenes were a lot more effective than the last big scene. The ending wasn't very good either, with the exception of Foggy getting the new job. However, most of the season was fantastic, and around eps 8 and 9 was the highpoint.

4. Agreed the gangs were a bit fake and stereotyped. It didn't matter too much though because the biker gang fight was fantastic and what was going on with the Punisher was so cool. A lot of times the goons in the show are kind of background. What really makes the show though is they have so many fantastic characters otherwise. Even a fairly minor character like the Kingpin's snotty lawyer for example is well done. And all the mains and sidekicks are great. 

5. The Blacksmith thing was a huge letdown. Once again something that was better as a mystery than when it was solved. I had trouble following it when it was revealed. Also, I thought it was going to be an Iron Fist tie in or the Hand and was excited about it at that point. And the way it was resolved by crashing the car and killing the guy just added to the overall impression that it was a meaningless side story line. The Farm was fantastic and I thought the Blacksmith thing would be something equally cool or similar, but it was a letdown.

6. No Luke Cage? Damn. And they teased us with that promo, too.

So, is Stick taking Nobu's head really going to stop him from coming back? We're under Highlander rules? Just wondering why he didn't burn or acid the body or something.

 

 

 

 

 

[briantw]

By the way, does anyone know what that big hole was for?  I don't think they ever explained it.

My theory is that it leads to Asia and that's how the Hand were getting into New York.