HBO's Westworld V - These violent delights... [Spoilers]

[RumHam]

12 hours ago, Theda Baratheon said:

I think NEXT SEASON is Blade Runner world love the film but I'm all for the androids - I couldn't be a blade runner tracking them down. 

That made me think more about the synthetic animals. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be like in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? where robotic animals were consumer products (cheaper than real animals )and then the people building them moved on to building robotic humans. 

[Fragile Bird]

I think the gleeful attitude people have about shooting the Hosts is partly based on the fact that their outside world is probably full of robots doing stuff for them.  They ae just things. How many times have you wished you could kick the tv, throw the toaster, or shoot the car? In addition to the violence crap, the love of guns, of course.

[Theda Baratheon]

9 minutes ago, RumHam said:

That made me think more about the synthetic animals. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be like in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? where robotic animals were consumer products (cheaper than real animals )and then the people building them moved on to building robotic humans. 

I like this idea. anyone who knows me knows i am obsessed with blade runner so any similaries to blade runner I'm fine with lol 

Where's mercerism and BUSTER FRIENDLY AND HIS FRIENDLY FRIENDS 

[TheKitttenGuard]

3 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

No, the questions are not from Arnold, because there is a discussion with Dolores about how she feels about the Newcomers, and she says they all love the Newcomers, and that every person she meets reminds her how happy she is to be alive. Arnold never met any Newcomers, it's not reasonable to think Arnold phrased any question this way. Take a look at the interviews Arnold did do with Dolores (every interview you first thought was with Bernard).

The voice she hears IS Arnold's voice, though. He says so in the last episode, that he would put his voice into the minds of the Hosts as the voice they hear telling them things, but his voice is actually their brains communicating with them. So the opening sequence with the questions is actually Dolores' own mind pointing out to her that the Newcomers can do whatever they want and the Hosts can't affect them.

Dolores did not 'receive' reveries from Arnold. We find out at the end that Arnold, not Ford, wrote the reveries software. A reverie is a gesture that acts like a fishing line that can pull up a memory that has been supposedly wiped clean from the memories of the Hosts. So you see Maeve rubbing her belly where the MiB stabbed her, or where the bullet was left in her in as she starts connecting gestures and memories, you see Teddy slipping his hand under his jacket where he was shot, you see Dolores often put her hands on her stomach, where Logan gutted her.

Think of your computer at home. We 'delete' stuff all the time, yet we are always reminded by the techs that you don't really delete anything. Think of how authorities seize computers, not only to look at recent stuff but to dig up the 'deleted' files. Imagine you could bring back that old love letter from the guy you broke up with 15 years ago just by rubbing your nose.

Over the years of our lives, we forget far more than we can ever remember (unless you belong to that unhappy group of people who remember everything forever), but memories can be triggered by scent, like smelling popcorn and remembering a happy occasion, by seeing a sign, an article of clothing, an advertisement, and memories come flooding back to you. Researchers suggest all your memories are still somewhere in your brain, you just can't access them, probably so you can carry on with life.  Think if you could never ever forget the death of a loved one.  The Hosts are having this problem, they have perfect recall when they do remember something, so real they don't know where they are.

Arnold understood what the park will be and what the guest will be doing to the Robots. Dolores is program to "love" the Newcomers from her creation and the questions are a testing of this program. In later episode Arnold's talks of the problems of the park which we now know are flashbacks 34 years ago.

The reverie upload restarted Arnold's voice and is remembering a conversation with Arnold of the true nature of the park and the guests.

[Cas Stark]

I assumed, if she was programmed to leave and not stay, Maeve was set up to leave the park to possibly go get Dolores father, who Sizemore already sent out of the park....or did I miss something there, or could be a loose end, they think they sent him out but Ford will have stopped him leaving only we don't know it yet.

[HexMachina]

I assumed Sizemore was going down to the storage to send Abernathy off at the end, which was when we got the empty room reveal. So he hadn't left the park. 

[Ramsay B.]

6 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I assumed Sizemore was going down to the storage to send Abernathy off at the end, which was when we got the empty room reveal. So he hadn't left the park. 

Yeah. I thought that was pretty obvious tbh, but this show does make us a little nuts. Interesting to see other people's interpretations, though.

6 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I assumed, if she was programmed to leave and not stay, Maeve was set up to leave the park to possibly go get Dolores father, who Sizemore already sent out of the park....or did I miss something there, or could be a loose end, they think they sent him out but Ford will have stopped him leaving only we don't know it yet.

I think we will see the father in the park next year. Glad to see the actor(Louis Hertham)getting praise outside of this forum also. Dude nailed it.

[williamjm]

There's been a lot of speculation that Ford was printing a Host-Ford in the basement. I wonder if the whole motivation for the events in the finale was because he intended for his replacement to be effectively immortal, and that would only be worth anything if it was a host that could achieve consciousness rather than something that just looked like Ford. The hole in that motivation would be that even if Host-Ford did become conscious it still wouldn't think like Ford did no matter how much memory he implanted, and Ford would surely realise that.

[karaddin]

On 09/12/2016 at 11:58 PM, DaveSumm said:

This is exactly what I was after a few pages back, Dolores wonders who the voice is she's been hearing all this time. I think it could be a double twist; we think it's Bernard, then Arnold, but is actually her. These conversations she had "in her dreams" really were in her dreams and were a sign of her bicameral mind awakening.

Yeah, the unreliable narrator camera really ended up working for me. We're given multiple 'reasonable' ways to interpret a scene that are incorrect, but looking back it fits with what was actually going on. Bakker fans should really be familiar as its one thing he does well.

Thinking on the 'deleting' memories and how that can fail, and that combined with apparently being able to load all host data onto the Abernathy host indicates that the hosts have a huge amount of storage, more than is feasibly needed. Combine it with the way that memories are restored and I think "wiping" isn't actually what we would assume it to be. The host consciousness is kinda like a virtual machine running on the platform (which is ironic as in virtual machine terms, host is the physical machine and guest is the virtual machine), memories for the session are written within the virtual machine but also dumped to the physical storage. When the host is 'wiped' the VM is reset back to the blank slate version, but all memories are retained at the lower layer. When Ford restores Bernard's memories he isn't recovering from backup, he's changing what the Bernard consciousness program/"vm" has access to. Possibly the storage medium used in the hosts doesn't even allow data deletion - it can be written to once and then its permanent, short of physical destruction - think CDs/DVDs and how you had the -R versions which could only be written to once. This also fits with the lumberjack host having to destroy its own head, memories couldn't simply be deleted the physical media had to be destroyed.

Not sure where else this could be going/what implications it might have, but it felt pretty likely as it popped into my head reading this thread.

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

Do y'all think dolores actually shot ford and the others out of her own "free will" to initiate  her "rebellion"  or was it more subtle programming,  like how arnold had programmed her as Wyatt to kill him?  Ford could've done something similar... 

[HexMachina]

Evan Rachel Wood won Critics choice for Lead Actress in a Drama Series. Thandie Newton won for Supporting Actress: http://www.criticschoice.com/critics-choice-awards

[Corvinus85]

6 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Evan Rachel Wood won Critics choice for Lead Actress in a Drama Series. Thandie Newton won for Supporting Actress: http://www.criticschoice.com/critics-choice-awards

Wood, along with the show itself received Golden Globe noms. Disappointed Hopkins didn't get one.

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, Corvinus said:

Wood, along with the show itself received Golden Globe noms. Disappointed Hopkins didn't get one.

I think the actors playing the hosts had a much more difficult acting task than Hopkins.  J. Wright should get a nomination also.  

[Fez]

10 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

Do y'all think dolores actually shot ford and the others out of her own "free will" to initiate  her "rebellion"  or was it more subtle programming,  like how arnold had programmed her as Wyatt to kill him?  Ford could've done something similar... 

I think it had to be free will. If everything happens only because Ford planned it, what is the show even about?

[HexMachina]

1 hour ago, Corvinus said:

Wood, along with the show itself received Golden Globe noms. Disappointed Hopkins didn't get one.

So did Thandie Newton. She is under supporting actress, Wood as lead (the difference between those two categories will always confuse me)

[Corvinus85]

23 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

So did Thandie Newton. She is under supporting actress, Wood as lead (the difference between those two categories will always confuse me)

Sorry, I'm not seeing Newton in the supporting actress category. I think she was left out, too.

[HexMachina]

Just now, Corvinus said:

Sorry, I'm not seeing Newton in the supporting actress category. I think she was left out, too.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/golden-globes-nominees-2017-list-955075/item/best-limited-series-motion-picture-made-television-golden-globe-nominees-2017-955102

Quote

Best Performance by an Actress in a Supporting Role in a Series, Limited Series or Motion Picture Made for Television

Olivia Colman  - The Night Manager

Lena Headey - Game of Thrones

Chrissy Metz - This Is Us

Mandy Moore - This Is Us

Thandie Newton - Westworld

 

[Corvinus85]

8 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/golden-globes-nominees-2017-list-955075/item/best-limited-series-motion-picture-made-television-golden-globe-nominees-2017-955102

 

Yes, you're right. Then best hop on over to the awards thread and tell @AncalagonTheBlack he messed up.

 

[DMC]

On 12/12/2016 at 11:04 AM, HelenaExMachina said:

So did Thandie Newton. She is under supporting actress, Wood as lead (the difference between those two categories will always confuse me)

Right.  I think there are some standards in terms of screentime for the Emmys, but I have no idea for the Golden Globes or other awards.  Moreover, pretty sure such standards are will be ignored next fall anyway - we'll get Wood in the lead category and Newton in supporting even though the latter obviously had much more screentime (this is an assumption, but by all means someone give me numbers).

I also agree with @Cas Stark that host actors clearly had a harder job and subsequently more impressive performances.  However, I disagree on Wright - even though I'm a huge fan and loved his work, he played the same notes throughout both Arnold and Bernard scenes.  Granted, this was required of him, but so too were actors playing purely human characters (at least that we know of!)

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Just finished it. I don't know if I can add anything new, except that by the end--Teddy's constant dying and returning and trying to figure out how to save Dolores--against his programming--reminded me a lot of Duncan Idaho in God Emperor of Dune. Anyone else? Haha.