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Platypus Rex

Poll: Is Jon Snow the son of a Dayne?

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This is a poll.  Please answer "Yes" or "No" to the following question:

Does Jon Snow have one Dayne parent (such as, for instance, Ashara, or Arthur)?

For context, the above question subsumes at least 3 different possible theories: (1) that Jon is the son of Eddard and Ashara ("E+A=J"); (2) that Jon is the son of Brandon and Ashara ("B+A=J"); (3) that Jon is the son of Arthur and Lyanna ("A+L=J").  

The first ("E+A=J") is of course directly supported in the text itself.  It is, for instance, the theory of Jon's parentage believed or suspected by Cersei, as she hints in her confrontation with Ned in Book 1.  Most theorists (including supporters of "R+L=J") believe these clues are in fact red herrings.

One point that could be raised in defense of the various Dayne heritage theories is that the Dawn sword and the title "Sword of the Morning" have been dropped like Chevov's Guns, arguably waiting for some kind of resolution; and one might arguably anticipate that they are going to be important in the second war for the dawn.  But we don't have too many prominent characters who would be capable of wielding a greatsword, Jon Snow is one of them; and moreover is the only one that is hinted to have any Dayne heritage.  According to tradition, the Sword of the Morning has been a knight of House Dayne.  Another point that could be raised is that the standard version of the most popular alternative ("R+L=J") has an arguable timeline problem, as it seems to requires Eddard Stark to accomplish a lot of things, across many hundreds of miles, in a month or less, in order to arrive at the Tower of Joy on time to see Lyanna dying in childbirth with Jon Snow.  But that's enough context for now.

Feel free to give reasons for your answers, or otherwise elaborate.  However, I ask that you not argue with the reasons or elaborations given by other posters at least until we reach page 3 of the thread.  After that, have at it.

Thanks in advance to all voters.

9 for, to 43 against, so far.

For:  Sly Wren, Enuma Elish, Vaedys Targaryen, JS97, SophiaWilson17, kleevedge, Luddagain, Maelerys, Morrigan's Raven.

Against:  kissdbyfire, Alexis-something-Rose, Nevets, The Fattest Leech, Euron III Greyjoy, The Ned's Little Girl, OtherFromAnotherMother, Curled Finger, Back door hodor, Makk, Missing Benjen, Dorian Martell's son, acwill07, Lollygag, SFDanny, Lynesse, Ralphis Baratheon, Bael's Bastard, Megavora, LyrnaSnowBunnyAvenger, Samyaza, Legitimate_Bastard, Morte, Marcelowww, Daemon the Black Dragon, the Other Wolf, bent branch, Aurane, The Bastard of Walton, Impbread, Gertrude, White Ravens, Crona, Amris, Moiraine Sedai, Sire de Maletroit, Wight_wolf, Lord Marek, Sea Dragon, TheThreeEyedCrow, tmhk, Lyanna<3Rhaegar, Syl of Syl and (not counted) Platypus Rex.

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Previous "Unpopular Theory" Polls (in order of popularity):

"Did Jojen Die Off-Page in DANCE?":  15 for to 29 against (34.1%).  Supported by  Gertrude, chrisdaw, WyldFyre, Penny's Got a Gun, Megavora, Back door hodor, Lost Melnibonean, Tucu, acwill07, Ibbison from Ibben, Son of Man, Remiem, OtherFromAnotherMother, Lynesse, Jo Maltese.  

"Is the House with the Red Door in Dorne?":  8 in favor to 29 against (21.6%).  Supported by  TPTWP Timett, Sly Wren, Nezza86, Impbread, Sophia Wilson17, Sigella., Lollygag, Sweet Desire. 

"Did Summer See a Dragon?":  8 for to 35 against (16.3%).  Supported by:  Legitimate_Bastard, rustythesmith, TPTWP Timett, Remirem, kleevedge, Gertrude, Wolfkin, sweetsunray. 

"Is Daario actually Euron?":  1 in favor to 40 against (2.4%).  Supported by: Adam Targaryen. 

To save space, I have only listed the names of the brave souls who supported each prior Unpopular Theory.  No disrespect to the Victorious Winners of the poll is intended.  The full tally of names of all voters can be found in the original threads.

Edited by Platypus Rex

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The only possibility is Arthur, simply because he had access.  Even so, I doubt it.  So,

NO

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0 in favor to 4 against, so far.

Thank you for your votes.

Come on, B=A=J fans.  I know you're out there.  Are you really going to let this be as unpopular as "Daario = Euron"?

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3 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

Does Jon Snow have one Dayne parent (such as, for instance, Ashara, or Arthur)?

Most likely yes.

Quote

For context, the above question subsumes at least 3 different possible theories: (1) that Jon is the son of Eddard and Ashara ("E+A=J"); (2) that Jon is the son of Brandon and Ashara ("B+A=J"); (3) that Jon is the son of Arthur and Lyanna ("A+L=J").  

Much as I'd love it to be Ned and Ashara, I just don't think that will work out.

Arthur Dayne and Lyanna? Yes--symbolism, narrative patterns of Stark Maids, Jon's own behavior, and Ned's memories: it's not set in stone, but Martin's laid lots of groundwork.

Quote

One point that could be raised in defense of the various Dayne heritage theories is that the Dawn sword and the title "Sword of the Morning" have been dropped like Chevov's Guns, arguably waiting for some kind of resolution; and one might arguably anticipate that they are going to be important in the second war for the dawn. 

Yup. Plus Martin says himself we will hear a lot more about the Daynes in later books (if he ever gives them to us). They matter. The Daynes--Day's King--Sword of the Morning. Starks--Night's King--Sword of the Evening. That seems like an opposition made for the fight between the Long Night and whoever will end it.

Quote

But we don't have too many prominent characters who would be capable of wielding a greatsword, Jon Snow is one of them; and moreover is the only one that is hinted to have any Dayne heritage.  According to tradition, the Sword of the Morning has been a knight of House Dayne.

Yup--and Jon has been longing since he was a boy to earn his father's "true greatsword" via worthiness, thus earning his family name. He even thinks that as amazing as Longclaw (the bastard sword) is, it's not the one he wants. He doesn't want the in-between sword, between long and great. He want the true greatsword of his father. 

There is exactly one sword in Martinlandia that is earned that way: Dawn. 

Seems like there may very well be a reason why Martin had this be one of Jon's oldest running dreams.

ETA: Longclaw, with its pommel of "pale stone," is only an in between, a hand-and-a-half, to the true greatsword, Dawn. A greatsword also associated with pale stone: The Palestone Sword of Starfall.

Edited by Sly Wren
I can't spell.

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Jon's father could be Dayne.  There are other good candidates among the suspects though.  Rhaegar, Mance, and ofcourse, Eddard Stark.  Brandon makes this list as well.

Some of the reasons given for Dayne have to do with earning the ancestral sword.  There is a Dayne among the leading characters.  Otherwise that sword will sit this one out.  Jon is the leading choice to be a Dayne.  I think it is fact who his mother is, Lyanna.  The only question is where the sperm came from.  Arthur Dayne is one of the best, if not the best, choice among the possibilities.  So I will say "YES." 

If you had ask me who I want to have fathered Snowman?  Brandon Stark.  More drama and more problems for Jon is what I hope for.  

Edited by Enuma Elish

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7 minutes ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

Nah, everyone knows it was Whent. Where do you think Jon gets his dark sassy humor from? 

Sorry Man, was just a timely Pixar Toy Story nod.   

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