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[Spoilers] Episode 806 Discussion


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3 minutes ago, Danelle said:

Well Targaryens can be killed by dragons, just ask Queen Rhaenyra.

On the other hand, it is quite ironic, the killing of a Targaryen monarch yet again but by a Stark this time. Jon became a kinslayer and a queenslayer. 

Yes, but they weren’t supposed tu be unburn neither, but as dragons came back with the red magic so does magic, and the magic in their blood? 

Any way I think it was more of a Brad thing, and that’s the reason of the weird line about he finding drogon at the end; to remind the viewer that he can even warg into a dragon

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2 hours ago, robasp2 said:

Like you, many will now skip GRRMs books because of the show.

Didn't he realize that? Couldn't he have overseen the scripts?

In all honesty I will more than likely still read the books. There will be enough time for me to get over this by the time they come (if they come out) I doubt it will hurt his book sales too much. If Twow is announced tomorrow I wouldn't be in a rush to buy it though

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I feel sick to my stomach, particularly over the fate of Dany, and Jon, (all of it really). To see this sweet girl at the start of her journey, all the heroic resilience she displayed after suffering tragedy after tragedy only to be made Darth Dragon-Lady at the end, and then knifed in the gut. And Jon...all of his journey from being a Bastard, to a Lord Commander, to being risen from the dead, to King in the North, to a Dragon-Riding Targaryen, heir to the Iron throne, and theeeeennnn.............to a Queen-slayer, a Kin-slayer, and then back to the wall as a lowly Nights Watchman and exile? This is what I invested all that time and emotional connection for?? (Oh gawd, and don't get me started on Saint Tyrion and his sanctimonious speeches!)

If this is where GRRM is really going with them too, then f--k this. F--k the rest of the book series, f--k all the spin-offs, and f--k all the side books. I've been reading Fire and Blood lately, but I'm so put off by all of this, that it's going back to the Library tomorrow. F--k this. I know GRRM loves subverting tropes, but again, if this is really where he's going, then he's an emotional ghoul who loves f--king people over. 

I don't buy there being enough signs with Dany's character to show where they were going. If this was supposed to be some kind of Shakespearean tragedy, then boy did they ever blow it! I realize that GRRM showed his hand early too with the Red Wedding, but even so, building characters up to just so catastrophically tear them down in the end...that is just wrong. Yes, this is D&D's work, but at this rate I don't think it matters if it's written better by GRRM. I don't need to read a more detailed evisceration of these characters I made the mistake of caring about.


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Just a few quick considerations about this episode (one taken from my comment to ep.5)

About Dany: her vision in the House of the Undying was a huge spoiler: the half destroyed throne room covered in ashes, even if it might look like snow (probably a reference to Jon) where she is so close to the Iron Throne, but she can't touch it (we see the tips and especially the pummels of some of the swords)...that is, you won't get it, Dany ^^
Then she walks outside the gate of Castle Black through the Wall and reaches a tent where Khal Drogo and her son Rhaego are waiting for her (hint: the "North", that is a Northener, will kill her).
About Drogon: in the books it's clearly said that dragons are much more intelligent than an ordinary beast (in the TV show it's hinted).
Drogon doesn't kill Jon because he understands that Dany has been killed by her obsession for the Iron Throne, so he melts it, closing the circle (as Balerion the Black Dread had forged it).
I think he's flying to Valyria now, homeland of the dragons and House Targaryen...BUT (I think it will never happen ofc) if someone would, one day, go on with the TV series, all Drogon has to do is to fly over Essos, get the attention of a red priest and have Dany resurrected (in the end, dragons are the source of magic...and the spell should be even easier if casted while being close to a dragon...ehm ^^).
About the enemy? Who knows what Arya will find in the unknown lands, West of Westeros... (I repeat...I'm just fantasizing a bit :) )
Finally, Bran (who says that he will probably be able to find Drogon... ^^ ) sends Jon to the Wall because he knows about his "farewell dialogue" with Tormund: Jon will be happy with the Free Folk (and with Ghost), so...
P.S. Many of us thought Brienne would fill in Jaime’s Kingsguard page, but it's been very nice anyway to actually see it happen :)
Edited by alinoris
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Some vlogger I saw recently called Arya's ending spot on. I never considered one little question from way back would come back around.

But it was clear they were making Sansa queen of the north. At least they didn't deter from that.

I'm still digesting the rest. I suppose Sam doesn't get to marry since he is archmaester?

There is logic in it but it doesn't tie together 7 seasons of build up to Jon's true identity. The was just tossed aside to neaten this up. 

Jon quits cheating on Ghost with dragons. Glad we cleared that up.

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Sansa as queen is great and Ghost is back. The rest was incoherent garbage fan service after Jon killed Dany. Either he bonds with Drogon and is the new king or Greyworm kills him on the spot. In no world is he thrown in jail. They basically made R+L=J on show pointless. His heritage was for nothing. He gathers forces to fight the Others but he didn't need to be a Targaryen to do that. It only served to create conflict with Dany and according to D&D was a huge part of what turned her mad. They never gave a reason why the two of them didn't just get married as they were supposed to be in love. Even if he was just Jon Snow that was the obvious solution from the start.

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Given the givens the ending was not too bad - but what they had to do to Dany, and by extension Varys and Tyrion to get there remains unforgivable. Just to forestall the critics who think that the controversy over Dany is because her fans wanted her to have some kind of Disney arc are fighting a straw man. There might be some people who wanted that but all of the criticism that I have seen fully accepts that Dany was going to be a tragic hero, but fault what happened as completely breaking with the character and incidentally burning much pf the rest of cast in the process. And the attempt in this episode to have Tyrion ventriloquise the writers ret-conned justification with the idiocy about how the Mereenese crucifixions  or bonfire of the Khals logically leads to methodically burning a city and it's inhabitants after it had surrendered just reinforces the sour taste this season leaves. 

A triumphant Dany, backed by fanatics, with limitless power and filled with a mission that requires the revolutionary remaking of society was always going to take a dark turn. But it should have played as tragedy - and needed time - at least half a season - to properly play out in a way that was true to character. Instead we got this bombastic nonsense, where Dany is preternaturally aware and figures out exactly what happened at the beginning of episode 5 and has turned into a gibbering madwoman barely connected to reality in the course of maybe a day or so. This is Morning cartoon stuff. 

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6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:


Elective kingship. A Stark king giving the North independence! I pissed myself.

And how the hell does Grey Worm know that Dany got a dagger in the heart? Didn't the dragon fly away with her? And how likely is it that anyone would allow Jon to live after what he pulled if they knew?

What is a more sane scenario:

Living under Dany who actually has freed people and gone only very far when pushed, or FUCKING BRONN as Master of Coin?

Why shouldnt Grey Worm know? .. Jon surrendered and told them. Grey Worm not killing Jon was a smart move... but unexpected. Looks like he lost his will to fight when he lost the queen(commander). Bronn being the Master of Coin? Why not? He loves money, he is smart  and he is the lord of Highgarden.

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2 minutes ago, VladLXXXI said:

Bronn being the Master of Coin? Why not? He loves money, he is smart  and he is the lord of Highgarden.

That actually makes him the richest person in the kingdom. He's Master of Coin because he's expected to bankroll the monarchy. Mad, but funny.

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