Police - a thin blue line, a wad of cash and scary guns

[Pebble thats Stubby]

36 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Police don't want, nor need guns. 

if only our US cousins felt the same way.

[A True Kaniggit]

1 hour ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

if only our US cousins felt the same way.

My older brother recently got a job in the local sheriff’s department.

I love my brother, but I know him. And as he is now, he panics in stressful situations. 

I really hope an emergency doesn’t happen when he is on the spot anytime soon. Because he is just an accident waiting to happen.

They’re even giving him a gun. He’s never fired a gun in his life. 

[felice]

4 hours ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

if only our US cousins felt the same way.

And if only other countries didn't see the US as a role model for their own cops rather than a cautionary tale

2 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

They’re even giving him a gun. He’s never fired a gun in his life. 

They will at least be giving him some kind of training before he's allowed to carry the gun, I hope?

[karaddin]

10 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Police don't want, nor need guns. 

I assume you also think your role as a policeman is to serve the public and keep the peace? That's pretty demonstrably not the priority of some entire departments that we are talking about here, let alone individuals, so it's not surprising they disagree with you.

It would be nice if they at least started working on deescalation and subduing without using the gun. But I guess as soon as you have that gun on you, you introduce the fear of having it turned on you if you actually engage physically with the person which is all the justification they seem to need.

As for above - yes do look at crime statistics, they don't actually paint a picture of the runway general crime that justifies ever increasing police states (looking at my home country on this one) and shootings

[A True Kaniggit]

21 hours ago, felice said:

They will at least be giving him some kind of training before he's allowed to carry the gun, I hope?

Yeah, don’t worry. He at least has to go through some sort of academy before he’s actually issued the weapon. 

[Werthead]

This incident has been picking up a lot of coverage. An armed criminal took a hostage and drove off down the freeway, was intercepted by armed police and then a pitched gun battle took place during which the criminal, the hostage and a civilian bystander were killed. The police are shown using occupied civilian vehicles for cover.

[polishgenius]

There'll never be a clearer example of a police force thinking they're an army. Not only human shields, but with traffic on both side of the van every shot they took was also at risk of hitting a civilian. They just didn't give a shit. It was guys getting their policing cues from video games. No morality and no training or thinking involved.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

There'll never be a clearer example of a police force thinking they're an army. Not only human shields, but with traffic on both side of the van every shot they took was also at risk of hitting a civilian. They just didn't give a shit. It was guys getting their policing cues from video games. No morality and no training or thinking involved.

You are correct.  This episode is emblematic of everything that is wrong with American police training.  They use the public to serve themselves and brag “No LEOs harmed” as though the public does not matter.

[Which Tyler]

6 hours ago, polishgenius said:

There'll never be a clearer example of a police force thinking they're an army. Not only human shields, but with traffic on both side of the van every shot they took was also at risk of hitting a civilian. They just didn't give a shit. It was guys getting their policing cues from video games. No morality and no training or thinking involved.

It's almost like the combination of a "Them vs Us" attitude, gun/violence fetishisation, rampant machismo and a denial that the word "de-escalation" exists is a generally bad combination for a police force to adopt.

[Larry of the Lawn]

So now we have that video of someone encouraging police violence against a black guy for asking her to leash her dog.  Just straight up trying to use the police to commit violence on her behalf, because she found getting called out on breaking a rule inconvenient.  Haven't heard any of our elected officials comment on this yet. 

 

[lessthanluke]

11 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

So now we have that video of someone encouraging police violence against a black guy for asking her to leash her dog.  Just straight up trying to use the police to commit violence on her behalf, because she found getting called out on breaking a rule inconvenient.  Haven't heard any of our elected officials comment on this yet. 

 

At least her employer fired her. 

[DanteGabriel]

9 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

So now we have that video of someone encouraging police violence against a black guy for asking her to leash her dog.  Just straight up trying to use the police to commit violence on her behalf, because she found getting called out on breaking a rule inconvenient.  Haven't heard any of our elected officials comment on this yet. 

 

Between this and the piece of shit Minneapolis cop who suffocated an unarmed black man during a traffic stop, it was quite a weekend for the "just follow the rules and you don't have to be afraid of cops" crowd.

[Larry of the Lawn]

12 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Between this and the piece of shit Minneapolis cop who suffocated an unarmed black man during a traffic stop, it was quite a weekend for the "just follow the rules and you don't have to be afraid of cops" crowd.

It really was.  

 

14 minutes ago, lessthanluke said:

At least her employer fired her. 

Yeah, I doubt the Minneapolis cops will be fired.  Who knows though.  

Zero optimism anything will change from this but who knows, maybe these videos will be more convincing than all the other examples of this we've seen over the years.

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

It really was.  

 

Yeah, I doubt the Minneapolis cops will be fired.  Who knows though.  

Zero optimism anything will change from this but who knows, maybe these videos will be more convincing than all the other examples of this we've seen over the years.

 

They already have been.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

And given the nature of this city and how we were all so outraged over the last incident, I think at least two of the guys are going to spend a very long time in jail. People are fucking angry. A lot of people I know who don't want to touch anything political or racial are sickened and enraged. The cop is like literally flexing as he kills the guy in cold blood as he spends minutes begging for his life as people scream.

The cop that blocked people from helping, he's every bit as guilty of murder as the cop publicly executing the man. He kept telling people to not do drugs. Dude, there's a guy being murdered behind you. What's worse? And then there's telling moment, where he goes and initiates contact with someone and then screams don't touch me. He was trying to get his own free pound of flesh.

I love my city, but this is just disgraceful, and there's no way to defend anything the police did there. I hope all four of them get the book thrown at them. I do trust our young new Mayor, he seems like a good man, and I think he will make sure they don't get to hide behind the blue shield this time. 

[dbergkvist]

On 11/29/2019 at 5:33 PM, A True Kaniggit said:

Yeah, don’t worry. He at least has to go through some sort of academy before he’s actually issued the weapon. 

But it is during that training that US cops learn that they need to always fear for their lives and always handle every encounter with a non-cop as someone whose only goal in life is to kill as many cops as possible before they die. And this is why US cops kill much more often compared to other comparable countries. It would be better for everyone if your brother did NOT receive this training, or if he doesn't pay attention.

[Larry of the Lawn]

10 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

They already have been.

Whoa damn did not realize that

[DMC]

37 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Between this and the piece of shit Minneapolis cop who suffocated an unarmed black man during a traffic stop, it was quite a weekend for the "just follow the rules and you don't have to be afraid of cops" crowd.

To be fair I think the Amy Cooper incident more just emphasizes minorities - and particularly minority men - need to also be afraid of Karens.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

9 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Whoa damn did not realize that

Yeah, things are moving fast. There's been a huge effort to reform everything after what happened with the murder of Philando Castile, which took place in a Twin Cities suburb. Even if you want to give the cops every benefit of the doubt, that looked pretty awful. But this? No this was straight murder. The cop was taking pride in keeping his knee on a dudes neck as he said he'd comply and was clearly dying. The video footage is about as bad as you could imagine. 

Like I said though, we have a young Mayor who wants to reform everything, as well as a newish police Chief who feels the same. I'm sure the two were sickened by what they saw, and they acted quickly. But pressure from the community will not let up anytime soon, that's why I think justice may actually happen here.

17 minutes ago, dbergkvist said:

But it is during that training that US cops learn that they need to always fear for their lives and always handle every encounter with a non-cop as someone whose only goal in life is to kill as many cops as possible before they die. And this is why US cops kill much more often compared to other comparable countries. It would be better for everyone if your brother did NOT receive this training, or if he doesn't pay attention.

This isn't wrong, but it's incomplete. Police forces in America heavily recruit vets, often times combat vets. This has a lot of flaws, because much of their previous training is actually terrible to apply to an officer. 

Police forces also don't exactly recruit the best. Sorry for not providing a link, juggling a few things at the moment, but there was a case a few years, damn maybe as far back as a decade ago, in which a guy sued a police force for not getting hired. He aced the test and was shocked to not get the job. What was revealed at some point in the process is that they actually target average recruits, and that this is nation wide practice. Logic being they were less likely to quit. Typical America to target those just smart enough to do the job while being too dumb to really ever think about why they're doing it.

But another problem, and this is pretty common knowledge, white supremacists groups and been infiltrating police departments for a long time now. What better way to take out their hate? And when you watch that video, and watch that cop's body language, that's exactly what is happening. He was taking joy in doing that.

[Larry of the Lawn]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Yeah, things are moving fast. There's been a huge effort to reform everything after what happened with the murder of Philando Castile, which took place in a Twin Cities suburb. Even if you want to give the cops every benefit of the doubt, that looked pretty awful. But this? No this was straight murder. The cop was taking pride in keeping his knee on a dudes neck as he said he'd comply and was clearly dying. The video footage is about as bad as you could imagine. 

Like I said though, we have a young Mayor who wants to reform everything, as well as a newish police Chief who feels the same. I'm sure the two were sickened by what they saw, and they acted quickly. But pressure from the community will not let up anytime soon, that's why I think justice may actually happen here.

This isn't wrong, but it's incomplete. Police forces in America heavily recruit vets, often times combat vets. This has a lot of flaws, because much of their previous training is actually terrible to apply to an officer. 

Police forces also don't exactly recruit the best. Sorry for not providing a link, juggling a few things at the moment, but there was a case a few years, damn maybe as far back as a decade ago, in which a guy sued a police force for not getting hired. He aced the test and was shocked to not get the job. What was revealed at some point in the process is that they actually target average recruits, and that this is nation wide practice. Logic being they were less likely to quit. Typical America to target those just smart enough to do the job while being too dumb to really ever think about why they're doing it.

But another problem, and this is pretty common knowledge, white supremacists groups and been infiltrating police departments for a long time now. What better way to take out their hate? And when you watch that video, and watch that cop's body language, that's exactly what is happening. He was taking joy in doing that.

Are cops who are also vets more likely to be involved in a violent encounter?  Somehow I doubt it.  It's giving police depts military surplus gear and an us against them mentality in training and in the culture.  

Just an anecdote but I remember this one cop, an Iraq vet, who was fired for not using force when he basically talked a suicidal guy down from suicide and then back up arrived and shot the guy.  

ETA: 100% agree on white supremacy being a thing with US cops