UK Politics: Who Pays the Andyman?

[Derfel Cadarn]

Tweet from Scottish author Chris Brookmyre.

 “I used to have a lot of respect for Robert Peston, but throughout this election he's been so far up Boris Johnson's arse he can see Laura Kuenssberg's feet.”

 I definitely feel there’s a pro-Tory element at the BBC this election, not helped by dodgy editing

[mormont]

One thing the BBC, and other media, can fairly be criticised for in this election is that they have elected to treat the Conservative party as a legitimate source and not to query information coming from them despite ample proof that under Johnston, the Tories are behaving as if there are no standards and no expectations of honesty. They will actually say anything and they don't care if it's true as long as it's effective: but the BBC are content to parrot whatever they are told uncritically until and unless they can prove it's bullshit. 

[Rorshach]

2 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

You keep banging on about that as if it is relevant somehow, if one person who could be considered politically neutral/soft left wing shares a story, that doesn't mean that 'the right wing press' were not the driving force behind the story being pushed.  And we know why it was being pushed - to keep Boris being an unfeeling twat out of the news. 

Why aren't you interested in the fact that Conservative sources clearly lied to 'respected' journalists to further their own political ends? 

It is very relevant to HoI's attempt at having even the remotest hope of having something resembling an argument. 

 

Sort of like the guy who seems to be able to continue being PM. For some reason, I've started thinking of this when I see him.

[Which Tyler]

I must admit that I'm a little dissappointed in HOI today (whilst simultaneously, he's gone up in my estimation) - I was all ready with my rebuttals and CCHQ troll-bots, for the inevitable claims that the 4 year old on the floor was faked.

[Varysblackfyre321]

3 hours ago, mormont said:

I mean, it wasn't the right wing press who created the story lie. It was the Conservative party press office. The right wing press merely jumped on the story lie with delight, and without bothering to check it.

But you see,  some people on the left bought the lie. They should have known better. So, really Mormont. both sides are equally (but more aptly the left), at fault. 

I'm kidding. 

[Derfel Cadarn]

Tory troll-bots all over social media claiming the pictures if the boy in hospital were faked and smearing the family.

The same posts/tweets going around facebook posted by different accounts.

[karaddin]

On 12/10/2019 at 1:58 AM, Spockydog said:

We're all going to die.

Choking on smoke in Sydney while the Australian Labor party (the supposed position) go on a "how good is coal" tour instead of taking the opportunity to kick the government, and the government are using the "distraction" of our largest state being on fire to push "religious freedom" laws... Yeah. That feels about where things are going.

23 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

I think we are all fucked. Only positive is I think Johnson fucks up so badly labour win at least the next 2 elections handily. 

It's a wider problem than just the UK government, and awful right wing outcomes continue to win votes despite blatant corruption and incompetence so....I wouldn't put money on this.

I don't care for Corbyn specifically, and I certainly think he's handled some things ineptly but... There hasn't been anyone left leaning having success in the anglosphere for years, and irrespective of who is behind it the troves of dishonest propaganda continues to proliferate online and older less technologically savvy voters just accept it.

We need a solution but I don't think you can damn Corbyn alone for not having one. At least he hasn't just decided to join the Tories like the shitty Australian Labor.

ETA: BFC - only the first paragraph was directed at you, the rest was just generally to the discussion of Corbyn.

[Heartofice]

4 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

The right consider them left wing biased

The lef consider them right wing biased

They generally do a good job of being politically neutral... up to a point.

Ha, yeah "the BBC are generally doing a good job.. except when they don't agree with me" . Seems to be the general case it seems. 

For instance the BBC has drawn record numbers of complaints over its election coverage, but its almost an even split as to whether they are anti Tory or anti Labour.  

https://www.cityam.com/bbc-inundated-with-bias-complaints-as-election-campaign-heats-up/
 

[Jen'ari]

21 hours ago, polishgenius said:

I mean that is the point? That the NHS can't cope with its load because of cuts and that that sort of thing is what ends up happening?

I’m in full agreement that the NHS needs substantial extra investment, the bit that seems to be a sticking point is where to find it from, no matter what though how that boy was treated was not on whatsoever.

21 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Nah. It's not cuts. Foreigners caused this shit remember. 

I know full well you are being sarcastic here, what is scary is some people actually do believe that!, without the people from all over the world who come to work in our hospitals and walk in centres the NHS would be in an even more dire state as we just wouldn’t have the staff needed.

7 hours ago, mormont said:

Ed Miliband wasn't any kind of Blairite. It was his whole deal. He was the anti-Blairite candidate, backed by the unions and everything. You can blame Blairites for a lot of things but not Ed Miliband. 

Are you seriously suggesting that the Conservative party now, riddled as it is with defections and expulsions and disunity, led by a man with a -47 approval rating and bereft of any actual talent or even competence on the front bench, is not ripe for an effective leader of the opposition to defeat? 

The polls may be wrong and I'm sure they will narrow by the time of the vote on Thursday. But it speaks volumes that even hardcore Labour supporters I know are, in their most optimistic projections, talking about maybe being able to form a minority government. That's the hard limit of their hopes right now. The likelihood, I'm afraid, is that we are talking about a workable Tory majority, I'd guess around 30-50 seats. If we're lucky, we get a repeat of the last parliament, where the government are unable to do anything but the opposition are too fragmented to do anything but block the government. 

I honestly feel rather deflated about this election to be honest, there is no outcome that I could foresee being happy with.

[Chaircat Meow]

The Focaldata MRP has come out before the YouGov MRP which is expected at 10pm. It predicts Tory majority of 24, at 337 seats. In other words, things have tightened since last time. YouGov's MRP is rumoured to have the Tories on 340 or something, a majority of 30 or so. So, once again, things look to be getting closer. The likelihood is of a Tory majority and national decline but a hung Parliament is still a possibility, and could occur due to a late swing, or it could already be the result and masked by polling errors. 

[SeanF]

25 minutes ago, Chaircat Meow said:

The Focaldata MRP has come out before the YouGov MRP which is expected at 10pm. It predicts Tory majority of 24, at 337 seats. In other words, things have tightened since last time. YouGov's MRP is rumoured to have the Tories on 340 or something, a majority of 30 or so. So, once again, things look to be getting closer. The likelihood is of a Tory majority and national decline but a hung Parliament is still a possibility, and could occur due to a late swing, or it could already be the result and masked by polling errors. 

A lead of 10% or thereabouts, will produce a Conservative majority of at least 80.

[Chaircat Meow]

YouGov has the Tories over the line by about 19 seats. They have detected tightening since the last MRP and can't rule out a hung Parliament.

YouGov MRP

UK #GE2019 MRP seat projection:

CON: 339 (-20)

LAB: 231 (+20)

SNP: 41 (-2)

LDEM: 15 (+2)

PC: 4 (-)

GRN: 1 (-)

BREX: 0 (-)

via @YouGov, Chgs. w/ 26 Nov

From last MRP in late Nov for the changes, obviously. 

UK #GE2019 MRP vote share:

CON: 43% (-)

LAB: 34% (+2)

LDEM: 12% (-2)

BREX: 3% (-)

GRN: 3% (-)

SNP: 3% (-) via @YouGov Chgs. w/ 26 Nov

 

[Chaircat Meow]

YouGov is also reporting a late Labour surge since the weekend. I think most of the increase the current MRP shows in Labour's vote share is very recent (according to YouGov). If this continues tomorrow and on Thursday the Tories might be trouble.  

[The Anti-Targ]

10 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

I must admit that I'm a little dissappointed in HOI today (whilst simultaneously, he's gone up in my estimation) - I was all ready with my rebuttals and CCHQ troll-bots, for the inevitable claims that the 4 year old on the floor was faked.

 

9 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Tory troll-bots all over social media claiming the pictures if the boy in hospital were faked and smearing the family.

The same posts/tweets going around facebook posted by different accounts.

LoL!

But really, in an age where you can't automatically assume a picture or even video is legit troll-bots saying anything is fake will raise suspicions. It all comes back to how much you trust the source of information, and it seems harder and harder for people to trust independnat sources and they tend to gravitate to sources that are overtly aligned with their ideology / party preference.

[Which Tyler]

8 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

But really, in an age where you can't automatically assume a picture or even video is legit troll-bots saying anything is fake will raise suspicions. It all comes back to how much you trust the source of information, and it seems harder and harder for people to trust independnat sources and they tend to gravitate to sources that are overtly aligned with their ideology / party preference.

See also the Matt Hancock assaulted by 100s of protestors shipped in by labour. When he wasn't assaulted, there weren't 100s of protested and they weren't shipped in by labour.

Couple of fairly important articles recently that I haven't noticed being covered.

FirstDraftNews

88% of conservative's paid facebook ad.s have been found to be untruthful or misleading compared to 0% for labour and 16.5% for LibDem.
Whilst facebook (officially) has policies in place to counter such things - Zuckerberg doesn't apply them to political parties - presumably because political parties spend a lot of money on facebook and don't like being called liars.


YorkshirePost

Editor of the Yorkshire Post replies to critics on the 4 year old pneumonia story; basically saying "journalists have a legal duty to fact check - which we did; Sheree on facebook doesn't, and didn't; and oh look, it was the first and last post from an account that has since disappeared and is unavailable for scrutiny".

ByLineTimes

Dissects how these fake stories get out and given legitimacy by mainstream media / journalists; covers Jack on the floor, Johnson's phone "theft", the Matt Hancock "assault"

[Spockydog]

Churchillian courage from Johnson.

 

 

[Which Tyler]

Turns out that (Sheree) the originator of the fake story that the 4 year old was a fake pic; who claimed that her account was hacked and that she'd never posted it - lied about that (she replied to comments on it); and has a son who is friends with Matt Hancock - who would, of course, have no possible reason to try to get this lie out there.

 

 

 

 

And now for something completely different:

 

[BigFatCoward]

I can't find any mention of the above story being carried by an mainstream media. 

[SeanF]

The first two eve of polls are from Opinium, 45/33/12 and Qriously 43/30/13.

Edit:  Matt Singh, at Number Cruncher, has 43/33/12 for Bloomberg.

[john]

2 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

I can't find any mention of the above story being carried by an mainstream media. 

They showed it on Newsnight.  With the proviso that Hancock is only fb friends with this guy and his account will apparently accept all friend requests.

Another element to the story/conspiracy is that the originator of the fake news post is married to a private healthcare doctor and apparently wants the NHS privatised.  That bit hasn’t been reported by the BBC.
 

https://twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1204534050184024064