The Mandalorian Season 3 - Season Two Spoilers

[Heartofice]

Surely it’s a matter of expectations. If GoT had started as the type of show displayed in seasons 7 & 8 maybe it’s flaws could be dismissed and the show seen as mindless fun. However the early show was much better than that and descended into a much stupider version of itself. That’s the real problem.

As has been mentioned many times, Mandalorian knows what kind of show it’s trying to be, and it doesn’t warrant over thinking. The sort of person who moans about plot holes and stupid decisions really shouldn’t be watching.

At one point I found myself saying ‘put your helmet back on Bill Burr!’ But then I was able to let such a silly thought wash over me and disappear 

[Jaxom 1974]

Fun new hot take: The First Order soldiers will be born out of the philosophy of the Children of the Watch...that's why Phasma is so obsessed with Finn having his helmet off...

(No, really, I hope and pray they're going to stay far away from trying to connect to the ST...)

[Rhom]

33 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

I didn’t even know who Filoni was, and Favreau was “that guy who was Monica’s boyfriend in Friends” as far as I knew. I was so impressed with Mandalorian it triggered me to go back and check out Clone Wars / Rebels. They’ve become the golden boys now because of the success of Mandalorian but did they mean much to anyone outside of Clone Wars fans before that?

Favreau?  Him?  I dunno... he might have done a movie or two recently...

[DaveSumm]

3 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Favreau?  Him?  I dunno... he might have done a movie or two recently...

To be fair I forgot about Iron Man.  Although I stand by the premise; I wasn’t so bowled over by anything he’d done that it’d make me assume The Mandalorian would be great.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

38 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

I didn’t even know who Filoni was, and Favreau was “that guy who was Monica’s boyfriend in Friends” as far as I knew. I was so impressed with Mandalorian it triggered me to go back and check out Clone Wars / Rebels. They’ve become the golden boys now because of the success of Mandalorian but did they mean much to anyone outside of Clone Wars fans before that?

Feloni did Clone Wars and Rebels. Favreau voiced Pre Vizsla on Clone Wars and Rio Durant in Solo. He's also the director that delivered the film that kicked off the MCU: Iron Man. On top of directing that film, he's the one who pushed really hard for Robert Downey Jr. to get that part. All of this gives him considerably more credibility than an "outsider".

Casual fans might not be aware of all this but I guarantee the die hard fans and the access media types that covers stuff definitely do. You wouldn't have to look very hard to find, "Just give it to Feloni" type commentary related to the criticisms of the sequel trilogy.

20 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Surely it’s a matter of expectations...

That gets tricky. Where to begin?

[Soylent Brown]

Never mind stupid Iron Man, Elf! Elf!

[Veltigar]

19 hours ago, Toth said:

Really, I don't think they need to kill any redshirts, in my opinion it would be enough to have actually competent villains. This whole stormtroopers are a joke concept has gone far enough and you can do this whole "good guy waltzes into a room guns blazing, effortlessly gunning everybody down" thing only so often until it runs stale. Those are simply not very good action scenes all things considered. And the show's problems with maintaining tension during combat scenes become dramatically clear when you have your group of six heroes discuss taking over a ship with a crew of at least a hundred as if that's no big deal whatsoever (and then it turns out it isn't). Kinda makes you wonder why they bothered infiltrating that Imperial base last episode, they could have just walked in and murdered everybody instead, given how worthless their enemies are.

When I look at this part of The Mandalorian, I keep thinking of the Astartes fanfilm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7hgjuFfn3A

Yes, it's Warhammer 40k, but the basic premise of the fight scene is fairly similar to how every single fight scene against Imperials in The Mandalorian is thought up. You have a bunch of invincible super soldiers boarding an enemy ship and killing everyone in there. It's to make them look badass, but it still is dramatic because the enemies are actually doing the best within their abilities to stop the space marines. They use snipers, heavy weapon emplacements, sneak attacks and psykers. The space marines power through similarly to how a Beskar clad Mandalorian does against stormtroopers, but there is still a dynamic that makes the enemy look clever, even if horrifically outgunned.

Similarly I think The Mandalorian would gain a lot if they approached fight scenes less like a power fantasy (and a boring chore, truth be told) and more like a puzzle. Case in point, the mountain defense during the episode before this one could have been so much better if they did that. What if the stormtroopers landed on both sides of the mountain? Mando, Boba and Fennec would have to split to defend as much of the mountain paths as possible while the stormtroopers had the option to pin their single opponents down, giving each other cover as they systematically advanced. I also previously said that I would have liked for them to have one of the Dark Troopers on the ground. That one would have kept Mando busy so that he can't just run around killing everybody while being impervious to their return fire. In the end it would have been the stormtroopers who secure the kid and make a run for it after having successfully divided everybody's attention. See? Would that have been so hard?

Ah logical consequence of the Stormtroopers using proper tactics would be the death of a minor character though. At this point, I think that's pretty much the only way to reestablish the dread of Stormtroopers (plus, it would be convenient to get rid of some of the bad actors in this :p)

4 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

My feeling is that if I'm watching a show live (or whatever live means in this day of streaming apps), and I more often come to a forum like this to complain about episodes rather than praise it, it means I should just stop watching the show. There's so much amazing TV out there these days; if a show is mainly not working for me, why keep at it? But it is especially painful for a show like the Mandalorian. I think you and I have been on the same page for this season- everything has so much potential, and you want to tune in next week because what if it finally lives up to it?

Good point, although it does help that I'm already invested in the universe. If this was an original property, I'd probably walk away, but watching this with one of my best mate is just a nice piece of nostalgia. I wish it was more, but still it fills the time in lockdown.

13 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Fun new hot take: The First Order soldiers will be born out of the philosophy of the Children of the Watch...that's why Phasma is so obsessed with Finn having his helmet off...

(No, really, I hope and pray they're going to stay far away from trying to connect to the ST...)

This is actually also a strong reason why I'm still invested. I really, really want to be there when this retcons the ST (probably not going to happen, but I can hope)

[Kalbear]

I'm still amused by the fact that the people who shit on Kathleen Kennedy for ruining Star Wars also appear to be the ones who think that the Mandalorian saved Star Wars...which was greenlit entirely by Kathleen Kennedy. 

[TrueMetis]

Kathleen Kennedy is responsible for nothing good about Star Wars but responsible for everything bad. That is the way for fanboys.

[Jace, Extat]

3 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Maybe I'm just getting contrarian in my old age. I liked Game of Thrones season 8!

 

2 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

 

For all its faults, So did I. Talk about being in a minority.

 

 

Soooooooooooooo many things became clear to me now. A few of my friends and I have been hypothesizing how, exactly, so many people on this thread can manage to watch a TV program aimed at all ages incorrectly, we now have a very simple answer.

2 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

 

If the last two seasons of the Mandalorian were exactly the same, but it had  "Produced by Rian Johnson and Zack Snyder" instead of "Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau", would the reaction to it be the same? Somehow I don't think so. So screw it; I'm going to call it as I see it.

 

So I'm gonna explain to you right quick why us "herd mentality" types sneer down our noses at you while you eat paint chips. 

The Mandalorian wouldn't be the same as it is if Zack Snyder produced it. I don't know if you know this, but guys like Snyder have a style. An aesthetic, if you will. If Snyder made this show it would have all the corpses and Bill Burrs getting raped in space prison that you could want, because that's what Zack Snyder likes. It would also look like desaturated nightmare garbage.

Thing is, most people don't want that. Most people don't want to see characters they like getting offed. Some stories are about the heroes winning, and aren't trying to be the Sopranos. 

I mean, My god, a team of badass mercenaries we met and built up over 15 episodes assault an Imperial Remnant light cruiser, fight a Dark Trooper, then a maybe dark side user who has a black lightsaber. It all looked fucking amazing, the action was frenetic and triumphant. And you people only thought it was "saved" when something you recognized showed up to do something familiar in a hallway. Get the fuck over yourselves and your cirque du soleil nitpickery.

90 percent of people who watch a thing never have a second thought about the battle tactics or strategic decision making. 9 percent joke about such things with their friends because they love movies/books/stories so much that they can recognize silly deficiencies on the part of the creators. But apparently there's that 1 percent who think they're smarter than the showrunners and all the rest of the sheeple who don't disassociate from a story because there's not a high enough body count. 

Your assertion is revealing in its lack of nuance.

[Martell Spy]

So, when does Thrawn show up? I don't know about you, but I came for and stayed for the fanservice.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

42 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Soooooooooooooo many things became clear to me now. A few of my friends and I have been hypothesizing how, exactly, so many people on this thread can manage to watch a TV program aimed at all ages incorrectly, we now have a very simple answer.

You have friends? Watching incorrectly? By all means, tell your friends they can eat my ass.

42 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

So I'm gonna explain to you right quick why us "herd mentality" types sneer down our noses at you while you eat paint chips. 

The Mandalorian wouldn't be the same as it is if Zack Snyder produced it. I don't know if you know this, but guys like Snyder have a style. An aesthetic, if you will. If Snyder made this show it would have all the corpses and Bill Burrs getting raped in space prison that you could want, because that's what Zack Snyder likes. It would also look like desaturated nightmare garbage.

Thing is, most people don't want that. Most people don't want to see characters they like getting offed. Some stories are about the heroes winning, and aren't trying to be the Sopranos. 

I mean, My god, a team of badass mercenaries we met and built up over 15 episodes assault an Imperial Remnant light cruiser, fight a Dark Trooper, then a maybe dark side user who has a black lightsaber. It all looked fucking amazing, the action was frenetic and triumphant. And you people only thought it was "saved" when something you recognized showed up to do something familiar in a hallway. Get the fuck over yourselves and your cirque du soleil nitpickery.

90 percent of people who watch a thing never have a second thought about the battle tactics or strategic decision making. 9 percent joke about such things with their friends because they love movies/books/stories so much that they can recognize silly deficiencies on the part of the creators. But apparently there's that 1 percent who think they're smarter than the showrunners and all the rest of the sheeple who don't disassociate from a story because there's not a high enough body count. 

Your assertion is revealing in its lack of nuance.

Yeah, that's whatever you just said for for you.

And yes, I think a lot of the criticism of Snyder is overblown and infantile. You've just provided a textbook example of it.

Also a word of advice, don't criticize the use of the term "herd mentality" (slightly out of context), and the follow it up with "90% of people who...". Just sayin'.

p.s. for "desaturated nightmare garbage" see Mandalorian Chapter 13: The Jedi. Though i wouldn't describe it as "garbage".

[Jace, Extat]

23 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

You have friends? Watching incorrectly? By all means, tell your friends they can eat my ass.

Yeah, that's whatever you just said for for you.

And yes, I think a lot of the criticism of Snyder is overblown and infantile. You've just provided a textbook example of it.

Also a word of advice, don't criticize the use of the term "herd mentality" (slightly out of context), and the follow it up with "90% of people who...". Just sayin'.

p.s. for "desaturated nightmare garbage" see Mandalorian Chapter 13: The Jedi. Though i wouldn't describe it as "garbage".

I am not responding to you, I just want this reply archived.

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, Kalbear Total Landscaping said:

I'm still amused by the fact that the people who shit on Kathleen Kennedy for ruining Star Wars also appear to be the ones who think that the Mandalorian saved Star Wars...which was greenlit entirely by Kathleen Kennedy. 

It's about who she placed in charge of the projects. It's about the fact that she worked with Lucas for many years, and knew what he wanted out of Star Wars, and still the ST happened the way it did.

1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Soooooooooooooo many things became clear to me now.

Indeed.

[Corvinus85]

I can't unsee Gina Carano scrounging her face every time she fires that heavy repeater rifle. She knows she plays a badass. Pew, pew, pew. 

[Heartofice]

Kathleen Kennedy has maybe one of the best CV’s as a producer ive ever seen. She worked on basically everything good in the 80s. Ok partly it’s cos she worked with Spielberg so often but still, it’s crazy what’s she’s done. 
 

I don’t doubt her talent, the problem I think was she was made the public face of Disney Star Wars and so gets a lot of the ire.  I think a large part of the reason the sequels are so bad is really because Disney got too involved , that’s my take. She obviously has to balance Disney’s interests too. I don’t know enough to say what mistakes are directly hers, but there does feel like a conflict somewhere 

[Maltaran]

1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

So, when does Thrawn show up? I don't know about you, but I came for and stayed for the fanservice.

That’ll be in the Ahsoka spin-off show

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

4 hours ago, Kalbear Total Landscaping said:

I'm still amused by the fact that the people who shit on Kathleen Kennedy for ruining Star Wars also appear to be the ones who think that the Mandalorian saved Star Wars...which was greenlit entirely by Kathleen Kennedy. 

There is nothing remotely rational in that camp. Some if it is simple misogyny. I suspect some of the extreme negativity toward her is simply to generate clicks.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

2 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Indeed.

Do tell. DM me if you don't want to burden this thread.

[DMC]

2 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

It's about who she placed in charge of the projects.

This shouldn't be in this thread, but yeah you don't have to be a fanboy to criticize Kennedy for the mismanagement of the trilogy.  Is anyone arguing there wasn't horrible whiplash between the three?  If so, then who are you supposed to blame?  I mean, I guess Abrams, but that seems slightly unfair.  Seems really unfair to blame Johnson.  Last time I checked she's the president, and there's this saying about presidents and bucks and stopping or such.  If the MCU was as incohesive as that trilogy I'd blame Feige.