WandaVision 3: Here Be Magic (Spoilers)

[SpaceChampion]

We should refer to the rebooted Vision as ReVision, not White Vision.  The latter sounds like something you'd find on the Stormfront forum.

 

[DMC]

8 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

We should refer to the rebooted Vision as ReVision, not White Vision.  The latter sounds like something you'd find on the Stormfront forum.

CaucaVision?

[briantw]

15 minutes ago, DMC said:

CaucaVision?

That makes it sound like he's made of poop.

[RumHam]

38 minutes ago, DMC said:

Then at the end he does abdicate, but he thinks he's leaving rule to his father - so I don't see how you could say he was abandoning responsibility when "they needed him most."  Hell, at the beginning of the movie he was finishing up a campaign to pacify the nine realms.

I was actually referring to in Endgame. His people suffer years of misrule when Loki is impersonating Odin and then under Hela. Then they lose their planet (is Asgard a planet?) in Ragnorok Then half of them are killed by Thanos the old fashioned way at the start of Infinity War. Then half of the survivors get dusted as they are setting up their new home. This is when they need their king, and instead he fucks off to pound beers and play fortnite. He doesn't even name Valkyrie queen until five years later. 

For the record I think Thor's great, probably my favorite Avenger too. Obviously he was going through some shit so I'm not unsympathetic. But the Asgardians should be pretty pissed at him at least until the end of Endgame. 

[DMC]

1 minute ago, RumHam said:

I was actually referring to in Endgame.

Ah.  Yeah, fair enough.  Although it seems Valkyrie is already their de facto ruler and I'm not sure what else he could do at that point as "king."  Negotiate for better land/trade with Norway?  I think he knows his limits as a politician.  During the five year gap I think it's safe to say he thought they were better off with Val anyway.  While that may have been due to self-pity, he clearly still thinks it afterwards too.  So..I dunno.

13 minutes ago, briantw said:

That makes it sound like he's made of poop.

Depends on how you pronounce it.

[polishgenius]

14 minutes ago, RumHam said:

For the record I think Thor's great, probably my favorite Avenger too. Obviously he was going through some shit so I'm not unsympathetic. But the Asgardians should be pretty pissed at him at least until the end of Endgame. 

In fairness like he seems to have at least got them set up on Earth before he went to pound beers.

[john]

51 minutes ago, DMC said:

I think I'll defend Thor, as he sneakily became probably my favorite character from Ultron to Endgame.  There is his warmongering at the beginning to set up his redemption/worthiness.  But after that..someone said a while back he unleashed an alien army.  If they're referring to Avengers I don't think that's really fair.  The last he had seen of Loki he had fell into a cosmic abyss. 

That was me, I was thinking of Dark World, wasn’t he responsible for bringing the convergence to Midgard somehow and the Dark Elves followed? Could be wrong about that, I was struggling to think of one for him.

But yeah, you reminded me he was exiled for breaking the peace with the Giants. I guess all the Avengers were on the wrong side of authority, but only for (arguably) good reasons. Except Natasha, she was a bad guy who defected to the “right” side.

[felice]

3 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

If Agnes wasn't under Wanda's control, why would Agnes cared if Wanda created children or not?

I assume Agatha is aware of what the spell wants Agnes to do and plays along with it when she doesn't have better things to do, so it's not clear whether she personally cared about Wanda having kids or not.

3 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

If Wanda wanted children on her own, why did she bother to have the townspeople seemingly urge her on by chanting "for the children"?  Were they acting as her subliminal desire?

Yeah, I think most of what happened in the sitcomverse was driven by her subconscious.

3 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

Why did Agnes decide to screw with Wanda through Fakesilver?

I assume the timing at least was to distract her from her conversation with Vision which was heading in the direction of persuading her to end the Hex before Agatha had finished taking advantage of the situation. And longer term, he provides her with more incentive to keep the Hex going, and a good source of intel.

[DMC]

28 minutes ago, john said:

That was me, I was thinking of Dark World, wasn’t he responsible for bringing the convergence to Midgard somehow and the Dark Elves followed? Could be wrong about that, I was struggling to think of one for him.

I don't think he "brought" the convergence.  Selvig seems to think it's something that's gonna happen anyway.  He does ultimately bring the fight to Earth, yeah, by deciding to take Jane/the aether off of Asgard.  But I'm not sure, maybe you're right.  The whole convergence thing isn't exactly explained well in the film.

ETA:  Thinking about it, both him and Jane are shocked when she's able to receive a call from the dude she went out on a date with.  So, I think it's rather clear he didn't intend to bring everything to Earth, at least.

[Corvinus85]

4 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

We should refer to the rebooted Vision as ReVision, not White Vision.  The latter sounds like something you'd find on the Stormfront forum.

 

 

4 hours ago, DMC said:

CaucaVision?

AlbinoVision, BabyPowderVision, TPVision, the possibilities are endless.

Didn't Bettany play the albino Silas in the DaVinci Code? So his trolling about the cameo was staring us in the face all this time!!!

[Kalbear]

18 hours ago, DMC said:

...Except when she was finally confronted with how much harm it was doing to the people, she did reverse it.

She stopped the spell, yes. Eventually. And then restarted it. And then stopped it again. 

But she did nothing to deal with the damage she actually caused. She just stopped causing more damage. You don't call it justice when someone stops punching you. 

18 hours ago, Mr Gordo said:

Shown. Shown in Episode 8. You know when she goes to the empty plot and looks at the to grow old together note and uh, explodes? You think that was on purpose? 

Not hugely, no. But by ep 5 she knows it is her doing all of this, and continues to do it. And - here's the important thing - does not help anyone she harmed. Not even a little bit. 

15 hours ago, felice said:

But as of episode 4, she has a husband and kids who are part of the spell, and ending it means killing them. I believe the intention is that they are real, self-aware entities, even if Wanda brought them into being, not just illusions generated by her subconscious. Not wanting to face up to the reality of the situation is pretty understandable given the circumstances.

She had options other than continue to enslave everyone else in a never-ending loop of agony and nightmares. Even if she wanted to keep the spell going to save those creations, she still didn't stop anyone else's misery. 

15 hours ago, felice said:

Her motivation there was saving Vision's life, not just being angry.

Just going with what she said. 

 

13 hours ago, john said:

Mental slavery is certainly very bad but is it worse than killing, or even just injuring, a bunch of people? Wanda’s body count has to be low compared to the collateral damage of the big smashy guys. And she’s got a more convincing miserable origin story.

Maybe? Big difference is that the body count is usually either accidental or killing bad guys; it isn't killing people for its own sake. Wanda inflicted this harm on purpose.

13 hours ago, john said:

Kal’s right though that she’s departing on a darker path than we’d usually see from a hero. But she’s doing it to save her kids, who are at least real to her, normally considered a laudable action. A hero using powers for selfish reasons but with a good motive is exactly what the MCU always does to paint in conflict, whether it’s Cap beating up a SWAT team or Black Panther’s extrajudicial operations on foreign soil.

Again, I don't think that it's a requirement that she tortures an entire town to keep her kids alive. Hell, she had another option - she can shrink the bubble at will by episode 9, so if she wanted to she could just shrink it to encompass her house and live in a small prison for a while. The idea that the only way to save her kids was by giving everyone else nightmares is not particularly heroic, but it's even worse when those kids didn't exist until she magicked them up too. 

[Kalbear]

1 hour ago, Mr Gordo said:

You know I'm not sure if you count Gamora and Nebula as avengers in this discussion but they have done way way way worst things then any of the earth based ones.

I'm 100% on board with Nebula especially realizing all the horrible things she did and going out and trying to make amends. Gamora too. 

Thing is, once you've made amends going back and causing more damage is kind of relapsing, and that sucks. Wanda already had her 'sorry I messed up' phase when she went with, and then turned on Ultron. Going back on that again? Not a great look. 

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Mr Gordo said:

You know I'm not sure if you count Gamora and Nebula as avengers in this discussion but they have done way way way worst things then any of the earth based ones.

I'm sure that's very true in the comics, but the films make sure never to go into too much detail on what Gamora actually did in her past..other than being an inconsiderate sister to Nebula.

1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

Didn't Bettany play the albino Silas in the DaVinci Code? So his trolling about the cameo was staring us in the face all this time!!!

Heh.  The role was even a warm-up for playing a charisma-less robot!

22 minutes ago, Karlbear said:

But she did nothing to deal with the damage she actually caused. She just stopped causing more damage. You don't call it justice when someone stops punching you. 

Yeah.  Again, I think this is more a failure on the show's part.  I know that sounds like a silly distinction when I say it out loud, but it makes sense in my head.

[Kalbear]

15 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yeah.  Again, I think this is more a failure on the show's part.  I know that sounds like a silly distinction when I say it out loud, but it makes sense in my head.

No, I get it. I think that if they want Wanda to be scot-free they messed up their story and the show suffers as a result. If they instead choose to make her an actual villain I think they're doing great. 

[JGP]

Much like the comics, these movies and now shows have been building on what's come before and they're going to continue rolling onward. For a while anyway, cause comics, but live action will inevitably necessitate recasting, which may equal retcons, at some point, but... better stop there because that's headache inducing.

---

 

24 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yeah.  Again, I think this is more a failure on the show's part.  I know that sounds like a silly distinction when I say it out loud, but it makes sense in my head.

A thing to keep present in the background thoughts [if you're not or never really were a comic fan] is these narratives don't really end.

One could say they're not satisfied with how Wanda's arc in Wandavision played out come the finale, and that's fine and good. But. Wanda's [and Vision's] story isn't over. Now say, in Strange's Multiverse of Madness, if Wanda doesn't have some kind of moral awakening and/or reckoning, that would probably only get a pass from me if this particular arc of hers is still clearly moving forward [in Strange II] to a climax in another property. Or something.   

 

[briantw]

42 minutes ago, DMC said:

I'm sure that's very true in the comics, but the films make sure never to go into too much detail on what Gamora actually did in her past..other than being an inconsiderate sister to Nebula.

I mean, in the movies it's implied they've basically been with Thanos since they were children and have been enacting his will, aka helping him crush planets and exterminate half their populations.  We only really meet them toward the end of their time with Thanos when Gamora is already starting to turn on him, but they've surely done some horrible things.

Not that it really matters, though, because these are comic book movies and every single character is a film away from turning heel or deciding to be a hero again.  Hell, sometimes Loki flips back and forth multiple times in the same movie.  

[DMC]

1 minute ago, briantw said:

I mean, in the movies it's implied they've basically been with Thanos since they were children and have been enacting his will, aka helping him crush planets and exterminate half their populations.  We only really meet them toward the end of their time with Thanos when Gamora is already starting to turn on him, but they've surely done some horrible things.

Not that it really matters, though, because these are comic book movies and every single character is a film away from turning heel or deciding to be a hero again.  Hell, sometimes Loki flips back and forth multiple times in the same movie.  

All of this is true, but eliding her troublesome past is almost certainly intentional to ensure Gamora remains likeable to all audiences.

[ithanos]

17 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I figured the most likely outcome would be that she approaches Doctor Strange for help. Or, your option 2 except she breaks open the multiverse and then says “oh shit Stephen could you help me please”. I’m not seeing how they would make her the full antagonist. 

Also I’m guessing the old Marvel proviso that the movie has to be entertaining and comprehensible in its own right will kick in, so I’m still not sure how likely it is we see Agnes in that film. It’ll be interesting to find out though.

That's their challenge. I'm convinced the show runners wanted to exit this season with Wanda at this fork in the road. And I wouldn't count out Agatha just yet. Like in the comic-books, her fate is often tied with Wanda.  

[john]

11 hours ago, Karlbear said:

No, I get it. I think that if they want Wanda to be scot-free they messed up their story and the show suffers as a result. If they instead choose to make her an actual villain I think they're doing great. 

They didn’t do either, they went down the middle.

I think you’re making a lot of assumptions about things we don’t know, because the show doesn’t tell us. But the assumptions to make her non-villainous are easier to make than the assumptions to make her villainous. Wanda doesn’t really think she’s a Villain, Vision doesn’t really think she’s a villain, Monica doesn’t think so, we don’t hear from them but their behaviour indicates Darcy and Jimmy don’t either. So that’s all the good guys.

If you’re arguing she actually is a villain, then yeah, I could buy that. But I don’t think the show wants her to be one at this point.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Anyone think Marvel Studios could be playing rhe long game with Evan Peters as opposed to simply trolling fans?

Why would they troll fans this way?  Who thought that was a good idea and why?