MCU: The Amazing Disappearing Daredevil!

[DaveSumm]

6 minutes ago, sifth said:

She had so many chances to kill her villain, but that stupid 13 episode mark, forced the plot to randomly make up reasons why she couldn't, lol

To be fair the main reason there was: she didn’t want to kill because she’s a good person. Once she’d decided it had to be done they cooked up the main last episode plot and did the deed.

Episode 10/11 of that season were a bit weak, but Tennant is still waaaay up the list of Marvel villains. In fact Kingpin, Killgrave and probably Cottonmouth would all be in the top ten.

[briantw]

The Netflix shows were definitely a mixed bag.  Daredevil was the best of the lot.  Punisher was a close second.  Jessica Jones was great in season one and terrible after.  I enjoyed Luke Cage well enough.  It was nothing special, but it was different from the other shows and that helped it stand out a bit.  Iron Fist was straight trash.  Well, outside of Jessica Henwick, at least. 

The Defenders mirrored the rest.  Some good moments, some bad, mostly just meh.

[Corvinus85]

My favorite part about The Defenders was the title music. I rate even a little higher than Daredevil's. Though Daredevil has the better visuals for the title sequence.

[mormont]

Marvel clearly used the experience of the Netflix shows in developing their own series - what worked, what didn't - and I can see quite a bit of that in Moon Knight in particular.

[BigFatCoward]

The netflix shows were fine, other than iron fist. But they were all far too samey. There's only so many times you can watch a low level superhero deal with crime in a similar way. 

[Heartofice]

I haven’t liked all the current crop of Disney marvel shows, but at the very least they mostly are taking risks. We would never have gotten Wandavision on Netflix for instance. 
 

Both have their flaws, created by the systems they are working in. Netflix shows were overly gritty and meandering, and the Disney shows are often too concerned with their big CGI finale or ‘the message’. But I know which one I’d rather have.

[DaveSumm]

Isaac is really great in this role. Obviously the switching between characters, but the way his eyes acted surprised when Khonshu spoke through him while the lower half of his face acted differently, that was quite something.

[Maltaran]

34 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Isaac is really great in this role. Obviously the switching between characters, but the way his eyes acted surprised when Khonshu spoke through him while the lower half of his face acted differently, that was quite something.

I liked how the other gods spoke normally when they were possessing their avatars but Khonshu was always yelling. 

[mormont]

9 hours ago, Maltaran said:

I liked how the other gods spoke normally when they were possessing their avatars but Khonshu was always yelling. 

I think the idea there (that Isaac gets across very well) is that the other gods speak through their avatars harmoniously, but Khonshu just barges in and takes over.

This episode was odd, in that it's a six episode series and still this felt like marking time. Moon Knight and Khonshu try to get the other gods involved, but they fail: it's a side quest and it feels like it fails because the story needs it to. The other avatars don't believe Marc and do believe Harrow because the story would be over otherwise: Harrow doesn't say anything convincing or that should really win them over, he just denies the allegation and says Marc is sick. Yeah, well you run a cult and there's an entire dig site not far from here, go look at that! At least ask Harrow some questions!

Then we get the second side quest of fighting the rich guy for the star map, which again feels like filler. And if the star map was the key the gods left in case they needed to find Ammit, the way it's described, why does the scarab exist? Who created it?

It's fine, don't get me wrong, but a big step down from last week.

[Heartofice]

It wasn't a bad episode, but its what I feared would happen with this show is what has happened. The bits I liked in the first couple of episodes, as in Stephen's blithering ineptness and the skipping of actual fight scenes as he blacks out would slowly be phased out for a more straightforward Marvel-esque 'thrilling' plot. 

I've read that reviewers who got the first 4 episodes to review felt that ep3 was where the show starts to go off the rails a bit. Hopefully the show will pull it back for the ending.

[DaveSumm]

2 hours ago, mormont said:

The other avatars don't believe Marc and do believe Harrow because the story would be over otherwise: Harrow doesn't say anything convincing or that should really win them over, he just denies the allegation and says Marc is sick. Yeah, well you run a cult and there's an entire dig site not far from here, go look at that! At least ask Harrow some questions!

Yea this did bug me. How did he even get summoned to this ‘hearing’? Did an avatar go get him? Where was he, and do you think there might be anything to all these people digging he was with? How can a god have the power to see the night sky thousands of years ago, but not what this guy was doing 10 minutes ago?

Even from Marc’s perspective, why didn’t he just follow Harrow after one of their meetings? Isn’t that easier than finding a tomb and deciphering an ancient puzzle? 

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

It wasn't a bad episode, but its what I feared would happen with this show is what has happened. The bits I liked in the first couple of episodes, as in Stephen's blithering ineptness and the skipping of actual fight scenes as he blacks out would slowly be phased out for a more straightforward Marvel-esque 'thrilling' plot. 

I've read that reviewers who got the first 4 episodes to review felt that ep3 was where the show starts to go off the rails a bit. Hopefully the show will pull it back for the ending.

This is why I give the edge to the better of the Netflix series; every single Disney+ show has started with an intriguing premise and then bottled it toward the end (except What If I guess).

[DaveSumm]

Oh, and can we assume Khonshu isn’t actually moving the moon? That he has some kind of … visual powers? Or something?

[Heartofice]

1 minute ago, DaveSumm said:

This is why I give the edge to the better of the Netflix series; every single Disney+ show has started with an intriguing premise and then bottled it toward the end (except What If I guess).

It's definitely a feature of Marvel properties, I'd suggest it's not confined to the shows either. Even the best movies tend to descend into the standard Marvel template at some point.

In fact pretty much every Marvel movie or show follows the same formula: Intriguing first act which promises to do things a little differently to set itself apart, followed by convoluted 'chase the mcguffin' second act, rounding out in a 'fight the big bad thing' final act. It's set in stone. Thats a broader problem than just Marvel I guess but it's really obvious with them.

[Maltaran]

3 hours ago, mormont said:

I think the idea there (that Isaac gets across very well) is that the other gods speak through their avatars harmoniously, but Khonshu just barges in and takes over.

 

So Khonshu is a Goa’uld?

[mormont]

20 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Yea this did bug me. How did he even get summoned to this ‘hearing’?

Harrow's an avatar. They all get there through the magic portals that appear. He tells his cultists to keep digging even if he disappears, so he anticipates that he'll have to take that trip. Presumably nobody went to get him, or they'd know what was going on, though they seemingly realise he was in the desert, at least. But then he just says it's not a crime, and they just drop it! Even though him being in the desert at the very moment Khonshu says he's looking for Ammit's tomb must make them at least a little suspicious...

20 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

How can a god have the power to see the night sky thousands of years ago, but not what this guy was doing 10 minutes ago?

I mean, having one power doesn't imply having a different power. And Khonshu remembers that sky, rather than being able to see it. What he does have is the power to bring it back.

But yeah, apparently none of these gods have the power to see what Harrow is doing or where he is. Maybe it's a professional courtesy, you don't spy on another god's avatar?

 

[felice]

3 hours ago, mormont said:

The other avatars don't believe Marc and do believe Harrow because the story would be over otherwise: Harrow doesn't say anything convincing or that should really win them over, he just denies the allegation and says Marc is sick.

But also Khonshu is a raving loony who does a terrible job of making his case, and the gods are disinclined to trust him at the best of times and in this specific matter they really don't want him to be right because then they'd be obliged to do something about it. I liked finding out what was up with the rest of the pantheon.

32 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Oh, and can we assume Khonshu isn’t actually moving the moon? That he has some kind of … visual powers? Or something?

I wouldn't rule out moving the moon, but rewinding the entire galaxy seems a bit much. Rather than strictly visual, my guess is he controls the sky that people believe in, which originates in what they see but isn't the same thing (we know intellectually that stars are other suns, but mostly we don't feel it). It's real enough in some sense to show up on camera.

[sologdin]

but Frank Castle is … something else.

yeah, his show is the only one i forbade my kid from watching on like the whole internet.

[Kalbear]

Khonshu is a good example of the adage that it's better to be convincing than it is to be right. The other gods don't like khonshu. He is a major pain. Why would they expend effort to listen when they can just reasonably dismiss him and his crazy avatar?

Also, thought it was clear that harrow was working with at least one avatar on the side pet that later scene where he confronts khonshu. The fix was already in.

[RumHam]

So are these guys like aliens or something? I don't really need a line explaining that they're not actual "gods" but I was expecting one and don't remember one. 

This show feels pretty far removed from the MCU at the moment. The only real connection is that Steven worked at the same museum as Dane and Sersi. But we could ask the old "wait where were you guys when ______ happened?" question. Though I'm not even sure what the other avatars can do. 

[Jaxom 1974]

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

So are these guys like aliens or something? I don't really need a line explaining that they're not actual "gods" but I was expecting one and don't remember one. 

This show feels pretty far removed from the MCU at the moment. The only real connection is that Steven worked at the same museum as Dane and Sersi. But we could ask the old "wait where were you guys when ______ happened?" question. Though I'm not even sure what the other avatars can do. 

As to connections...apparently some of the book titles on Stephen's desk when he was reading to stay awake reference Asgard and Wakanda.  There is a ad banner for the GRC on a bus in episode 2. One of the main henchmen for the spear throwing, horse riding antiquities thief that Marc and Layla go see in episode 3 drops a Madripoor reference...