The Witcher S3: Bye Bye Henry

[Zorral]

25 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

not a fan of the action sequences

This is the same of the settings/sets, whether a village, town, tavern, ship, castle, city, whatever in fantasy (generally true of print as well as screen, and most certainly in Games).  They are some generic pile, without sense of being Somewhere.  The tavern is filled with generically dressed people, sometimes of generically mixed classes such as generic peasants, merchants, killers, whores, barkeeps, with generic tankards, generic heaped barrels, and so on.  The equivalent of the castle/palace. The same of the market places.   But the watcher/reader doesn't feel Anywhere Particular.  This is true about all of them, not just the Witcher.

However when it comes to dressing witches, rich people, the Witcher is really nowhere at all, even in time, other than seemingly a contemporary TikTok/Instagram idea of really sexy and rich, but there's no actual style of time or place or material -- particularly as this is a medieval-ish (as opposed to actual medieval level culture, and as 'medieval' as we know it in the general western and eastern European sense is at least 9 centuries, so lots of variety) period, so, you know, all those sequins that keep turning up?  At least the costumers do seem to be enjoying themselves! Which makes it tolerable.

This is what makes the show, something as simple-minded as it is, baffling; one has no anchors, no place-holders for anything, so it's all free floating.  That is what seems to be at the bottom of so many's disappointment with it -- there aren't even chron-geo anchors which we can hang on to.

O, I dunno. But evidently something about The Witcher has, after three seasons and that Origins thing, gotten under my skin, so I keep thinking about it.

[RhaenysBee]

i watched one episode and I hate it and I’m not surprised Henry doesn’t want to be on board with this nonsense. It’s not funny, it’s not adventurous, it’s not dramatic, it’s not interesting, it’s not anything at all other than a waste of money. The only thing that comes to mind so far is the look how they butchered my boy meme and I wasn’t even particularly into the books. Ugh it’s painful to watch. 

[IheartIheartTesla]

Episode 5 was such a mess where they told the same story three times. Have to wonder if this is where Cavill lost steam and they had to dilute the porridge into gruel to make it last 10 episodes.

[Zorral]

17 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

they told the same story three times

When there was no point to not have told the whole thing in sequence in the first place.  Why in the world did they think they were being clever here? Just as there was no point in separating Geralt from Ciri and Yennefer, just to have him race right back to be with them in whatever the name of that place is.  Was that the only way they could figure out Geralt finding the fake Ciri, while providing opportunity for another monster fight? But his reason for leaving them in the first place was obscure at best, and -- o heck, I dunno.

None of this has anything to do with faith or infidelity to the books -- it has to do with decent plotting and structure, i.e. just even competent writing -- not even brilliant writing.  

Edited July 9, 2023 by Zorral

[mormont]

Finished the first five episodes last night, and honestly I can't understand a number of the reactions here. It's pretty good, folks. There are flaws: I don't think episode 5 worked in the end, but I appreciate that they tried it. Nothing wrong with taking a swing. And it meant we got multiple chances to appreciate the pretty costumes and sets from different angles if nothing else.

I think there is a tendency on this board to over-value clear backstory and setting and under-value aesthetics and atmosphere in TV series. Mileage can vary but TV is a visual medium, after all. Fight scenes are a good example. Folks, no fight scene you've ever watched is 'realistic'. They're choreographed all the way. There's no real difference between Ciri fighting on the boat and Geralt dancing at Aretuza. (Geralt doesn't even know the dance but does it perfectly!) These are storytelling tools. The 'power pose' is part of the story being told in the maze scene: Ciri is confident despite the peril. We can't get inside her head as we can in a book, so it's necessary to tell us that through the fight choreography. Just go with it and have fun.

And these five episodes were fun. Forget the details of the travel and coincidental meetings. I love the dynamic of Geralt, Ciri and Yennefe. (Even if I still wish they'd picked a slightly older actor for Yen, Anya Chalotra is doing fine.) I enjoy seeing these characters on screen. The fights are fun, the adaptation is competent (it's not by any means an easy story to adapt), the actors seem to be enjoying themselves. I think this series still has steam, and in fact these five episodes are an improvement on the second season. Looking forward to the rest.

[sifth]

Episode 5 hurt my brain. It might literally be my least favorite episode of the show.

[Spockydog]

Season 3 of The Witcher. I have no idea what the fuck is going on. It's been the same since episode 1.

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Spockydog

[Zorral]

7 hours ago, mormont said:

these five episodes are an improvement on the second season.

Like I posted in my reaction, I have watched it all, and will continue to do so, though I remain baffled as to why so much of it is amusing.  

[Heartofice]

4 hours ago, Spockydog said:

Season 3 of The Witcher. I have no idea what the fuck is going on. It's been the same since episode 1.

 

Isn’t that basically how all Witcher seasons are written?

[Spockydog]

The plot is paper thin. I have no idea what the point is, other than everyone wants to get their mitts on the chosen one.

 

[RhaenysBee]

I watched episode 2. I have alllllllll kinds of issues but was asked to give the benefit of the doubt to this season, so I’m trying to. The funny thing is, I pick my YA action novel over Witcher season 3 every single evening because I just don’t care.

My top issue is that the show reimagined the personality of a few characters without much establishing, it sucks the spice out of the story which becomes too sterile. The dialogue doesn’t flow, the scenes are lackluster, not inventive and spark no emotion in the viewer.  The other is the show’s lack of respect for its characters and story. How am I supposed to be invested in something if it doesn’t take itself seriously? The third is world building through mostly character, I simply have no idea who this random person is on the screen that we spent a total of 5 minutes with in previous seasons and so I couldn’t give half a shit about them if I tried. The fourth is costume design, especially makeup and hair. 

 

[AncalagonTheBlack]

 

[Zorral]

This actually looks good, right?  All though ... well, I can never get over the manicures and nails on Our Ladies in these circumstances.  How many Korean mani-pedi storefronts do they have on the Continent (is Continent what this world is called?)?

Also paves the way for the New! Improved! Witcher!  That is, if it will ever be made, as the strike is going to put an end to more series and projects one thinks than even covid did.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Zorral

[IlyaP]

On 7/11/2023 at 10:40 PM, Spockydog said:

Season 3 of The Witcher. I have no idea what the fuck is going on. It's been the same since episode 1.

 

How much craft beer am I going to need to get through this season?! Is it, like, a "every time something <X> happens", where X=stupid, take a drink kind of season?

[karaddin]

I'm with @mormont - finally got around to watching it and for the most part found it enjoyable. The big exception to that was the disconnect of Ciri running off from Yen and thinking she was still close then next thing she's actually a day or more away and Yen... Just let her go without concern?

The rest of the time they're being so protective that it just doesn't jibe, feels like there were missing scenes or something, I assumed the bit with the wild hunt was a dream or vision at first.

My memory of season 2 isn't great so I couldn't remember if we were actually meant to know who Rience's boss is or not, which had me second guessing everything because I wasn't sure if it was meant to be a hint or we were already supposed to know lol.

Cavill is such a huge part of why I enjoy it though, his grumpy snark is just perfect for making him entertaining and I'm really not confident Liam Hemsworth can bring that energy.

[SeanF]

42 minutes ago, karaddin said:

I'm with @mormont - finally got around to watching it and for the most part found it enjoyable. The big exception to that was the disconnect of Ciri running off from Yen and thinking she was still close then next thing she's actually a day or more away and Yen... Just let her go without concern?

The rest of the time they're being so protective that it just doesn't jibe, feels like there were missing scenes or something, I assumed the bit with the wild hunt was a dream or vision at first.

My memory of season 2 isn't great so I couldn't remember if we were actually meant to know who Rience's boss is or not, which had me second guessing everything because I wasn't sure if it was meant to be a hint or we were already supposed to know lol.

Cavill is such a huge part of why I enjoy it though, his grumpy snark is just perfect for making him entertaining and I'm really not confident Liam Hemsworth can bring that energy.

I agree.  I like it.  I don't think it's great, the way I thought parts of the earlier seasons of Game of Thrones were, but I still enjoy it overall.

That said, I think I'd find it confusing, had I not read the books.

[karaddin]

I haven't read them, but I have played TW3 and gotten some broad strokes of the story from there/related discussions. I'm not sure I'd understand "spheres" are just their name for planets or anything about the wild hunt without that.

[RhaenysBee]

I watched another episode. No idea whatsoever what happened. Somehow Ciri is super annoying even though she got that balance of annoying young brat and messiah complex protagonist right in previous seasons. The dialogue is an actual brain sucking monster that needs a Witcher to slaughter it. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by RhaenysBee

[horangi]

I did a rewatch of the first two seasons followed by, just now, wrapping up Episode five S3.  I think I enjoyed it more this time around just by leaning into the 'fun' and not expecting something that will go down as a top 5 fantasy series of all time.  Which, at least the English version, kinda fits where the source material is in my mind having read the series through.  The stand alone monster a day episodes from the Anthology are all fun.  And once they got through the Season 1 time skipping mess of the child surprise introduction (which at least they have the good humor to make fun of in Season 2), the longer arcs in S2 and S3 are enjoyable and the added 'monster of the day' that weren't a part of the original text were mostly fun adds that addresses some of the complaints that others mentioned here about a lack of actual Witchering in the later books.  I also liked some of the 'relatively' subtle hints and foreshadowing such as the Episode 4 clue on who the big bad is (which sadly in Episode 5 they feel they need to reveal Sherlock Holmes style instead of just leaving it out there as a reward to those that caught it).  I will admit it helps that I read the series, the expansive list of names and countries etc would be a bit hard to keep up with just on the show alone, but it did seem fairly faithful in broad strokes with the books in that most of the plot points I was able to remember what was going to happen next and be right. 

A few changes from the books I havent liked include making Nilfguard in S1/S2 into maniacal Chaos cultists from Warhammer rather than 'just' a giant strategic threat lead by a cult-of-personality dude on a mission.  It really weakened Fringilla's and to a lesser extent Cahir's characters, and it was nice that S3 showed both the empire and those two acting like the more human relatable awfulness of historical zealots and despots.  I also didnt like that they had to kill off so many Witchers including some of the 'known' characters just to feed the monster-of-the day plots.  It almost felt like they were fridged so that Geralt can move on with his adventure (I also thought Vesemir's actor was particularly wooden).  I also wished that, like with WoT, they gave the plot more episodes to breath and prevent so much skipping from location to location.  But then, I grew up when fantasy/Sci-fi series had 20+ episodes a season and could take an entire episode exploring a single element of the world, so mileage may vary. 

Overall though, it was just good, low mental investment fun.  I am looking forward to some of the future events, where I hope the party expands to include one of the later books' more memorable companions. 

[karaddin]

That actually makes me wonder - would the people that are not enjoying a lot of these shows feel the same way if the quality was a little lower, but there were 20 episodes to a season?

On top of not giving a lot of these plots enough room to breathe, the 8-10 episode season could be subconsciously coding the show as "prestige" when that's really not what some of them are going for. If you're expecting prestige and get Supernatural then obviously you're going to be disappointed most of the time, but Supernatural can be perfectly entertaining if that's what you're choosing to watch and just looking to enjoy it.

I don't think this would apply to Rings of Power, or Foundation, or Wheel of Time as I think all of those aspire to more, but I think The Witcher is much better as light entertainment than expecting something profound. A lot of the random Netflix series would be the same.