Werthead Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 I haven't read the short story, but descriptions seem to say that free will is a big part of the concept, whilst in the movie it's glossed over. Has anyone read the story noticed any differences on that side of things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 18 minutes ago, Werthead said: I haven't read the short story, but descriptions seem to say that free will is a big part of the concept, whilst in the movie it's glossed over. Has anyone read the story noticed any differences on that side of things? Spoilers for Story of Your Life It's elaborated in lot more details in the story, but the core concept is pretty much the same. Once you learn the language of the aliens in depth, you can't change the future you have learned thanks to knowing the alien's language. No more free will in regards to the future events a person who knows that language "remembers". In the story there is no Chinese general plotline at all (thankfully so because that plotline is really dumb IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felice Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 8 hours ago, DaveSumm said: I'd have to watch again, but I thought "the good times are worth it" was referring to having the child at all, and that there were scenes with the whole family that replaced scenes with just her and the girl before. I think those are all just scenes from slightly different moments in time than seen earlier in the film; certainly they had some time together as a family before she tells him about the illness, and it's even possible they get back together later on (I don't recall if there were any flashes of Ian and Louise together later in life). They couldn't show the father at all before without giving away the twist. 8 hours ago, DaveSumm said: I'm not really a fan of fixed-future time travel, cos it's so easy to poke holes in. What if she did remember the conversation with the ambassador and decided to shout "BUMHOLES" right in the middle of his sentence? How do the laws of physics contort to stop that happening? I don't really like the idea of your memory just coincidentally tailing off at the perfect time for you to stop being able to change anything. There's no actual time travel, just bi-directional memory. If she was going to interrupt the ambassador, she'd never have met him in the first place. And it wasn't actually necessary for her to forget what the ambassador was going to tell her, just dramatically convenient; all that's needed is that she does hear the ambassador say the words at some point. It seems likely that accepting the future is fixed is an essential part of grasping the Heptapods' way of thinking, and intending to change the future is putting your brain in a state where it can't remember the future; no coincidence required. How would you go about proving the future could be changed if you could remember the future? 8 hours ago, DaveSumm said: My favourite example is Red Dwarf, when Lister's trying to convince Rimmer that he saw a vision of the exact conversation but he keeps inadvertently triggering the responses he's already heard. Yes, that's a great scene 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 49 minutes ago, felice said: It seems likely that accepting the future is fixed is an essential part of grasping the Heptapods' way of thinking, and intending to change the future is putting your brain in a state where it can't remember the future; no coincidence required. How would you go about proving the future could be changed if you could remember the future? Well from the previous posters synopsis of the short story, it sounds like it covers exactly how this works in a lot more detail. But it just seems a convenient way of avoiding the issues that come with multiple futures to simply say that the brain rewires itself precisely as the situation requires. So the second she saw the ambassador, she then forgot the conversation to the perfect degree that nothing changed? (I actually suspect they filmed it this way, with her seeming to partially recall, intentionally to avoid this issue.) You're right, if she had interrupted the ambassador she wouldn't have got the number and wouldn't have met him ...... but what's she thinking when she meets him? 'Oh, I'd better not do anything different just in case'? What if she did something innocuous like scratch her face? Or does the heptapod language gut you of your free will and leave you a walking automaton, forever forced to live precisely as you once saw it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felice Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 1 hour ago, DaveSumm said: So the second she saw the ambassador, she then forgot the conversation to the perfect degree that nothing changed? No, the conversation occurs with whatever degree of memory she has. If she'd remembered it more clearly, then it would have been slightly different. She could just as easily have said "Hello Ambassador, you're going to tell me your wife's last words now so I'll remember them in the past", in which case that's what she would have remembered when she was making the phone call; a more ambiguous version of events just suited the filmmaker better. 1 hour ago, DaveSumm said: but what's she thinking when she meets him? 'Oh, I'd better not do anything different just in case'? What if she did something innocuous like scratch her face? Or does the heptapod language gut you of your free will and leave you a walking automaton, forever forced to live precisely as you once saw it? It doesn't matter what she thinks; maybe she's worrying about getting it right, but probably not given her understanding of time. What she remembers is what comes naturally to her, she doesn't have to try to match her memory, which I think we can assume is less specific than the film footage we're shown to represent her memories. Do you remember whether or not you scratched your face in a conversation two years ago? Whether free will exists or not is a complicated question, but she'll only remember making the choices she'll want to make at the time; choosing differently from how she remembers would require choosing against what she actually wants, and she's got no reason to do that. She could in theory decide to shoot herself in the head if she remembers not shooting herself in the head, but the sort of obsession with proving free will required to actually go ahead with that is probably incompatible with the Heptapod mindset needed to remember the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskeyjack Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Saw this over the weekend. Thought it was amazing, beautiful, and extremely depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Add me to the chorus who thought the flick was really good. First hour was a little slow but I was never bored. When Louise said "who's the little girl, I don't understand" my mind was blown a bit, great scene. Villenueve hasn't disappointed me yet. With Sicario last year and now this he's made a top 3 movie of each year for me. Think he missed Deakins on this one though, glad he will be back for Blade Runner. Score was brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckwheat Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 It is a beautiful movie. I thought that the way how different nations were presented was a bit stereotypical, but that was my only minor complaint. I was not bored for even a moment during it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ashes Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Other than Jeremy Renner 's character's cornball line to Louise close to the end (of the film) there, it's the best film I've seen it quite a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedGhost Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 On 11/28/2016 at 11:28 AM, Whiskeyjack said: Saw this over the weekend. Thought it was amazing, beautiful, and extremely depressing. My heart broke when Hannah told Louise that daddy was looking at her differently because of something he had learned from mommy (or however she said it). On 12/3/2016 at 3:59 PM, Knight of Ashes said: Other than Jeremy Renner 's character's cornball line to Louise close to the end (of the film) there, it's the best film I've seen it quite a while. Want to make a baby? Several people laughed in the theater this morning at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ashes Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 1 hour ago, RedEyedGhost said: Want to make a baby? Several people laughed in the theater this morning at that. It was that one that went something like he thought the most wondrous thing he'd find were beings from another star but no, it turned out to be Louise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 yeah that was some corny dialogue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetyrPunkinhead Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 On 11/20/2016 at 0:05 AM, ants said: I'd rate it 10/10. I thought it was a fantastic film, and enjoyed all of it. On the director, I liked Prisoners and thought Sicario was rubbish. So mixed on him. Okay, so I'm not the only person who was unimpressed with Siccario. I thought it had a few good moments, but mostly it was poorly paced and kinda boring. Prisoners was great though. And while I wouldn't call it a perfect 10/10, (8.5/9 out of 10 for me) Arrival was probably the best surprise I got at the theater all year. Totally not what I was expecting in the best possible way. I thought I'd get something between Interstellar and Independence Day, but I got something pretty unique and surprisingly emotional. Headlines read: WOMAN SAVES WORLD THROUGH LANGUAGE, NOT BOMBS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 11 hours ago, Mark Antony said: yeah that was some corny dialogue I think it fit his character. He clearly wasn't the most socially smooth or capable person, and dropping lines he probably thought were romantic or sweet but were actually pretty corny was fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemon Stark Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Plus Jeremy Renner is a goof, so it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I'm just saying, she totally should have discussed it with him before having the baby. Good film though. Very smart, despite the one explosion it pulled very little lowest-common-denominatorisation. Going way back in the topic: Quote It hued slightly too closely to Interstellar at times, I'd say it's less hewing too closely to Interstellar than both of them live in the shadow of 2001 (this one a little less so, but there were some shots, clearly deliberate, that made some influence obvious). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckwheat Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 12 hours ago, polishgenius said: I'm just saying, she totally should have discussed it with him before having the baby. Maybe, but would it have changed anything? They might have decided to try to avoid having the baby, but it could still have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 On 10/12/2016 at 0:09 PM, Buckwheat said: Maybe, but would it have changed anything? They might have decided to try to avoid having the baby, but it could still have happened. It could, but it's not even that she never tried to change it but that she knowingly chucked Renner's character into the situation. I understand that she was scared he'd say they should not have a baby but she doesn't know that. She just knows his angry reaction after he hid it from her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Saw this last weekend absolutely loved it. Very atmospheric. Will have to watch it again at some point (in English ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 On 11/13/2016 at 4:33 AM, Isis said: Just saw a comment on a review of this film, 'men beware, this is a chick flick dressed up as a guy sci fi flick'. Asshole. I just saw it. That is a beautiful and well made film. I've not read the Novellete but would like to. I can see why people thought this was unfilmable. If someone had told me the plot (the whole plot) going in I'd never have believed they could pull this off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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