Jump to content
kissdbyfire

Who is the 3EC?

Recommended Posts

Bloodraven is NOT the Three-Eyed Crow. It may be his body, but not his soul.

Brynden Rivers died in that cave a while ago and the Others resurrected him. Cmon! He has tree branches growing out of his eye, he is a zombie!

If the Others can resurrect corpses to wield swords and fight, the Others can resurrect corpses to operate their vocal cords to talk...and possibly cook too!

The Others found Bloodraven's rotting corpse in the cave, resurrected him, unlock his memories and unlock hidden potential abilities in his DNA.

The CotF are zombies too. The only ones that are not resurrected are the skeletons in the boneyard.

Coldhands is a zombie too.

All the zombies have something in common: their lack of soul = no humor in their personalities.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am going Bloodraven, but with deep reservations. GRRM is very good at giving his creations "voices" and the 3EC just sounds like a different person than the tree (who is undoubtedly Bloodraven), in my opinion. We know for a fact that Bloodraven isn't the only character in the story communicating with people in their dreams or even when awake (i.e. Quaithe). There is still the voice that Varys heard from the fire and I don't think that voice was either Bloodraven or Quaithe. I know there are a lot of people who think that whole story is a lie, but I am sure it is real and will factor into the story. 

There is an alternative character who I think might be the 3EC, but I haven't done a reread of the complete series in a number of years. I'm thinking of doing just that and seeing if that character feels right. However, I don't think it is outside the realm of possibility that Bran was being contacted by two different characters.

Also, the idea that it would need a whole lot of extra story to introduce someone else as the 3EC doesn't make sense in that all it takes at this point to reveal the 3EC is to have someone show up and say, "I'm the 3EC".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bloodraven is the 3eC, I will say I'm much less confident on this one than on literally any other poll I've taken part in recently however, I could definitely be convinced otherwise on this, my favorite other theory is that is Bran from the future, but I'm really not sure how deep into the timey wimey stuff the series is going to go

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Bran.

Bloodraven doesn't know wtf they are talking about when they say the 3EC.

I think the implication is this. There is the very good theory that Bloodraven thought Euron was the powerful greenseer he was looking for, that is he thought Euron was what Bran is. And accordingly Bloodraven contacted Euron as he did Bran and tried to steer him but things went wrong.

So if the 3EC that contacted Bran in his dreams is future Bran and not Bloodraven, then the person who contacted Euron must be future Bran too.

The narrative demands Bran make a mistake with his new found powers. GRRM isn't just going to hand over all this power and not have Bran fuck it up somehow. He's got to make a mistake and learn from it.

Coldhands says he is Bran's monster. I think what that little hint might be for is Euron. I suggest Euron is Bran's fuck up, that future Bran awakened some magical abilities within past Euron, showed him the supernatural possibilities out there and so motivated Euron to become what he has.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bloodraven.

But he's disoriented and doesn't look like he's running the show. Strikes me as more like a prisoner. So BR is the vehicle, but I can't shake the impression that he's not really the one driving, at least not completely. 

Hard turn into crackpotdom: 

Noticed that the Lannister history/plots follow fairly closely the Labors of Hercules (help from @Seams). The Apples of Hesperides which is the next to the last one sounds very Northy/BR/Bran. I'm currently chewing on BR and Bran being Prometheus types somehow - paying a price for bringing fire to the world.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/Herakles/apples.html

.

Edited by Lollygag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

an entity who moves from body to another. in present events probably Brynden now Brann.

Possibly a descendat of 13th lord commander and the pale woman or The Night Queen herself (probably a rebel Other or Last hero who transfered into a girl body).

we already know WW accept offers from Craster sons, probably new bodies for The Others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 "There's the wolf dreams, those aren't so bad as the others. I run and hunt and kill squirrels.  And there's dreams where the crow comes and tells me to fly. Sometimes the tree is in those dreams too, calling my name. That frightens me. But the worst dreams are when I fall."

"Bran ate with Summer and his pack, as a wolf. As a raven he flew with the murder, circling the hill at sunset, watching for foes, feeling the icy touch of the air. As Hodor he explored the caves. 

Or if you wish: as a wolf, as a raven, as someone tied with to the weirwood net.

It's Bran.

But the hints are scattared...

 

Edited by lalt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ha! Like our friend @The Fattest Leech, I had never participated in forum discussions.    I ended up here via the Wiki because I confused Cersei's friend Melora with the Mad Maid, Malora or whatever.   As I was listening (and I was told to pay attention), I made this awesome connection which turned out to be so wrong.   But I did find this place and despite the frustration with a few things it's a very good place.  There is so much I was unable to nuance myself but learned with much reading and participation in the conversations here.   I would have never put Brynden Rivers together as 3EC.   How could I?   He is barely mentioned in the main series.   It made much more sense when I read the D&E novellas, which are delightful even now after multiple listens.   Still, I would not have made the connections without the many many arguments and discussions between finer detectives than myself.   I'm good with BR = 3EC.   I'm good with Bran = 3EC.   It only seems to really matter here.   Though I loathed the the thought of ASOIAF being a frickin sci fi time travel reality flipped story even that became palatable after exposure to the reasons why concepts works.   This story demands a community to figure it out.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps GRRM has already given us the answer about the 3EC :

The crow opened its beak and cawed at him, a shrill scream of fear, and the grey mists shuddered and swirled around him and ripped away like a veil, and he saw that the crow was really a woman, a serving woman with long black hair, and he knew her from somewhere, from Winterfell, yes, that was it, he remembered her now, and then he realized that he was in Winterfell, in a bed high in some chilly tower room, and the black-haired woman dropped a basin of water to shatter on the floor and ran down the steps, shouting, "He's awake, he's awake, he's awake."

(Bran III, AGOT)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

@Megorova, I know we have talked about this before, but... you just make assumptions upon assumptions and run w/ them as if they’re fact. They’re not. And for the most part, not only all of them require copious amounts of mental gymnastics, but it’s diffcult to even understand why you thought of that in the first place

Either you will be the only person on the planet to get things right, or you will be way, way off for the most part. As of right now, I lean towards the latter. :cheers:

Look at the post above, by GloubieBoulga.

In the first place I figured out, that the 3EC is not Bloodraven, based on what was written in the book (that the crow was a woman, thus it can't be Bloodraven), and I'm not the only one who has noticed that Big Reveal. :rolleyes: It's writen in plain text -> "the crow was really a woman".

Edited by Megorova

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Look at the post above, by GloubieBoulga.

In the first place I figured out, that the 3EC is not Bloodraven, based on what was written in the book (that the crow was a woman, thus it can't be Bloodraven), and I'm not the only one who has noticed that Big Reveal. :rolleyes: It's writen in plain text -> "the crow was really a woman".

I love how proponents of the 3EC = Shiera Seastar like to use the "the crow was really a woman" line from Bran's awakening to support their theory, yet completely ignore the "serving woman with long black hair" part. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

I love how proponents of the 3EC = Shiera Seastar like to use the "the crow was really a woman" line from Bran's awakening to support their theory, yet completely ignore the "serving woman with long black hair" part. :rolleyes:

I don't ignore that second part. I think, that that second part could be a red herring. I repeat - could be. Or could not be a red herring. Both options are possible. If later it will be revealed, that the 3EC is really a woman (Shiera Seastar), then, for everyone it will finally become obvious, that that first part was the Big Reveal about 3EC's real identity, while the second part was an intentional mislead to hide it. But if in later books there won't be any additional information about the 3EC, or it will be confirmed, that it is Bloodraven, then I will acknowledge, that my assumption about first part being a clue, was wrong, and that actually it was a red herring, while the second part, that I thought to be the red herring, was actually not a red herring, and thus I was wrong, and my theory was a total tinfoil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Megorova said:

Look at the post above, by GloubieBoulga.

In the first place I figured out, that the 3EC is not Bloodraven, based on what was written in the book (that the crow was a woman, thus it can't be Bloodraven), and I'm not the only one who has noticed that Big Reveal. :rolleyes: It's writen in plain text -> "the crow was really a woman".

Erhm... no, the 3EC isn’t a woman. I mean, I don’t buy he’s anyone other than Bloodraven, and fully expect to be right about this. That said, I know the possibility exists that I’m wrong about it. It’s even possible that, if not BR, the 3EC is indeed a woman. But definitely not because of that scene, that scene is written the way it is just to put us inside Bran’s head when he wakes up from his coma. It’s supposed to give us a sort of perspective, and let us experience the coma - awake transition from his PoV. 

ETA: and what @OtherFromAnotherMother said. 

Edited by kissdbyfire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

The regular uniformed disinterested in buying extra material readers of the saga (five books published) have no idea that the magical Maynard of the short stories may actually be BR/Brynden Rivers.

There are uniforms for us readers?  Please send me the link for purchasing one!  I'll wear it for my next re-read.   :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Prince of the North said:

Agreed.  There were some of us who strongly suspected Bloodraven being the Three-Eyed Crow fully five years before it was "confirmed" in ADWD.  In this case, I believe Martin gave readers everything they need to come to this conclusion simply in the symbolism of the name "Three-Eyed Crow" and the backstory supplied for Bloodraven in ASoIaF.  That's certainly how it worked for us.
 

All find and dandy.

What is confirmed in DwD is that Bran meets a man named Brynden who has lived beyond his mortal span who has a thousand and one eyes which is relayed to Bran via a CotF.

Is this the backstory you are referencing?

A Feast for Crows - Samwell II      Though Aemon's eyes had dimmed and gone dark, there was nothing wrong with his ears. "I was not born blind," he reminded them. "When last I passed this way, I saw every rock and tree and whitecap, and watched the grey gulls flying in our wake. I was five-and-thirty and had been a maester of the chain for sixteen years. Egg wanted me to help him rule, but I knew my place was here. He sent me north aboard the Golden Dragon, and insisted that his friend Ser Duncan see me safe to Eastwatch. No recruit had arrived at the Wall with so much pomp since Nymeria sent the Watch six kings in golden fetters. Egg emptied out the dungeons too, so I would not need to say my vows alone. My honor guard, he called them. One was no less a man than Brynden Rivers. Later he was chosen lord commander."       "Bloodraven?" said Dareon. "I know a song about him. 'A Thousand Eyes, and One,' it's called. But I thought he lived a hundred years ago."/

I take my hat off to those who put it together from those two skinny references.

Or is the reference related to this?

A Dance with Dragons - The Turncloak    Theon Stark, the Hungry Wolf. My namesake. Lord Beron Stark, who made common cause with Casterly Rock to war against Dagon Greyjoy, Lord of Pyke, in the days when the Seven Kingdoms were ruled in all but name by the bastard sorcerer men called Bloodraven./

Is there reference to Brynden Rivers aka Bloodraven, a Targ bastard or is that a great bastard, being LC of the NW in the five books of the as yet incomplete saga? Did Aemon Targ mention who traveled with him to the Wall?

I can understand why readers and posters question who Bran's 3EC is.  Especially taking into consideration that up until DwD the CotF were thought to have died out.

Where I go rogue is after five books of yapping about Bran's 3EC, Bran and companions arrive at the destination. Martin finally gets the kid to the destination.  To say that the grizzly remains that Bran meets is not Bran's 3EC I dunna get.

I stand by my assertion that a first time reader who has not read the short story's, that there is not enough information in the five books to come to the conclusion that Bran's 3EC is Brynden Rivers who is Bloodraven, who is a Targ bastard that is assumed to be a sorcerer.

 

Edit: Yes, the Samwell quote talks about Brynden and the LC. I merely wanted to see how many posters would pick at the mistake and run with it.

 

 

 

Edited by Clegane'sPup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

There are uniforms for us readers?  Please send me the link for purchasing one!  I'll wear it for my next re-read.   :D

Uniforms, uninformed --- I dunna encourage people to buy non essentials. :grouphug:

yes I came back to correct a misspelled word

:laugh:

it's not the first and it won't be the last :cheers: I make grammar mistakes too. :bawl:

Edited by Clegane'sPup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

All find and dandy.

What is confirmed in DwD is that Bran meets a man named Brynden who has lived beyond his mortal span who has a thousand and one eyes which is relayed to Bran via a CotF.

Is this the backstory you are referencing?

A Feast for Crows - Samwell II      Though Aemon's eyes had dimmed and gone dark, there was nothing wrong with his ears. "I was not born blind," he reminded them. "When last I passed this way, I saw every rock and tree and whitecap, and watched the grey gulls flying in our wake. I was five-and-thirty and had been a maester of the chain for sixteen years. Egg wanted me to help him rule, but I knew my place was here. He sent me north aboard the Golden Dragon, and insisted that his friend Ser Duncan see me safe to Eastwatch. No recruit had arrived at the Wall with so much pomp since Nymeria sent the Watch six kings in golden fetters. Egg emptied out the dungeons too, so I would not need to say my vows alone. My honor guard, he called them. One was no less a man than Brynden Rivers. Later he was chosen lord commander."       "Bloodraven?" said Dareon. "I know a song about him. 'A Thousand Eyes, and One,' it's called. But I thought he lived a hundred years ago."/

I take my hat off to those who put it together from those two skinny references.

Or is the reference related to this?

A Dance with Dragons - The Turncloak    Theon Stark, the Hungry Wolf. My namesake. Lord Beron Stark, who made common cause with Casterly Rock to war against Dagon Greyjoy, Lord of Pyke, in the days when the Seven Kingdoms were ruled in all but name by the bastard sorcerer men called Bloodraven./

Is there reference to Brynden Rivers aka Bloodraven, a Targ bastard or is that a great bastard, being LC of the NW in the five books of the as yet incomplete saga? Did Aemon Targ mention who traveled with him to the Wall?

I can understand why readers and posters question who Bran's 3EC is.  Especially taking into consideration that up until DwD the CotF were thought to have died out.

Where I go rogue is after five books of yapping about Bran's 3EC, Bran and companions arrive at the destination. Martin finally gets the kid to the destination.  To say that the grizzly remains that Bran meets is not Bran's 3EC I dunna get.

I stand by my assertion that a first time reader who has not read the short story's, that there is not enough information in the five books to come to the conclusion that Bran's 3EC is Brynden Rivers who is Bloodraven, who is a Targ bastard that is assumed to be a sorcerer.

 

Edit: Yes, the Samwell quote talks about Brynden and the LC. I merely wanted to see how many posters would pick at the mistake and run with it.

 

 

 

Those of us who "put it together", as you say, did not do so from what you label "two skinny references" at all.  As I said in the post you quoted, we "put it together" simply from the symbolism of the name "Three-Eyed Crow" itself and the background info provided in ASoIaF about Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers and did so years before the release of ADWD.  You, of course, are completely free to doubt that TEC and Bloodraven are one and the same.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

 Though I loathed the the thought of ASOIAF being a frickin sci fi time travel reality flipped story even that became palatable after exposure to the reasons why concepts works.   This story demands a community to figure it out.    

Hey, Ser!

Agreed 100% - GRRM has given us so many potential avenues to go down with the plot that it helps to have a place you where you can drop in and discuss ideas. I like to think of the forum like an Oldtown alehouse, and we are all the frazzled students, helping each other "earn a few extra links to our Maester's chain" :cheers:

 

4 hours ago, GloubieBoulga said:

Perhaps GRRM has already given us the answer about the 3EC :

The crow opened its beak and cawed at him, a shrill scream of fear, and the grey mists shuddered and swirled around him and ripped away like a veil, and he saw that the crow was really a woman, a serving woman with long black hair, and he knew her from somewhere, from Winterfell, yes, that was it, he remembered her now, and then he realized that he was in Winterfell, in a bed high in some chilly tower room, and the black-haired woman dropped a basin of water to shatter on the floor and ran down the steps, shouting, "He's awake, he's awake, he's awake."

(Bran III, AGOT)

Great quote to pull up B) especially considering the topic.

The basin of water shattering reminds me of the Hammer of The Waves, famously caused by the Children, who themselves are often associated with both the 3EC and dreaming. This event "shattered" the land bridge which connected Essos and Westeros. Also, think about the "shattered" peninsula of post-Doom Valyria. "The seas rising up" was said to be one of many elements of the natural disaster.

Steps/Stairs = Stars, and Dany's HOTU vision did have someone warning her to "run!". Quote is so rich with symbolism!

Maybe it's because F&B is so fresh in mind, but the black haired woman being near water could be compared to the magic associated Alys Rivers, and the chilly tower room could be one of Harrenhal's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Those of us who "put it together", as you say, did not do so from what you label "two skinny references" at all. 

I am sorry you take issue with my descriptive words. I meant no offense.

27 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

As I said in the post you quoted, we "put it together" simply from the symbolism of the name "Three-Eyed Crow" itself and the background info provided in ASoIaF about Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers and did so years before the release of ADWD.

Cool. Would you expound on the symbolism pre DwD?

28 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

You, of course, are completely free to doubt that TEC and Bloodraven are one and the same.  

Me, no I dunna doubt that Brynden Rivers/Bloodraven/1001 eyes is Bran's 3EC.

I understand why others may not agree with my opinion.

What I did was supply information. Granted the information may be overlooked or ignored. What I did not do was become "holier than thou" and simply bang my gavel down.

Thanks.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×