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[Spoilers] Episode 806 Discussion

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17 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Dany will care because she has people like Moqorro and Marwyn coming her way.

So? Fuck em. Fuck Westeros too, why should a bunch of beggars make her care anymore than the beggars she already has?

The Reach has manpower to spare, enough to fight off the Ironborn, continue operations in the Crownlands until its stabilized, and enough to go slap fAegon stupid. They have lost effectively nothing so far.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, FeastForCrows said:

There are plenty of examples of this happening in our own history. It’s supposed to mean something like, ‘look at what this ruler accomplished despite their disability’ 

can you give some examples of monarchs that were crowned and had people chime in and give them titles that sound demeaning to their face?

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1 minute ago, darksellsword said:

can you give some examples of monarchs that were crowned and had people chime in and give them titles that sound demeaning to their face?

If you read what I wrote you wouldn’t see it as “demeaning”

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3 hours ago, Puck the Goat said:

Who was next to Tully when they selected Bran?

Some nameless Lord. Impossible to know which region from, he may be another Riverlander given that there was three representatives from the North, possibly three from the Vale, three, maybe four from the Stormlands, or possibly someone from the Reach. He was in-between Edmure and Sam so I'm guessing he was either from the Reach or Riverlands but given he said nothing when they were trying to give the Unsullied the Reach the Riverlands seem the logical guess.

 

2 hours ago, Ser Graymax said:

Dont understand why people are upset about Bronn being there.  The Lannisters always pay their debts and Tyrion was indebted to him by his word.

I think people are less upset about him being a Lord or a Small Council member but him being given the entire Reach.

I don't have an issue with it given that Littlefinger was born only slightly better off and was appointed Lord of the Riverlands as reward for serving the Lannisters.

It also makes sense politically given the Reach was against the coalition of winners that inherited the Throne. Keeping a puppet Lord who owes his power to the Throne is a bonus, Bronn remaining in power and not being overthrown in the future is not a guarantee.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, EProduc said:

Jon being exiled feels just weird for me. He saved many lives by killing Dany, and he loved her, yet all the other lords, and especially Tyrion, Arya and Sansa knew that she eventually would have to be killed if she would continue her tyranny, and they too wanted her to be death. Yet Jon's the one doing it and he gets punished for it while Tyrion gets to be hand of the king? Jon be punished when they too wanted Dany death?

Jaime was spared when he killed the King and that turned out awful for the realm. I'd say they wisely did not want a repeat of that.

I'd also guess that after murdering the second woman he was ever in love with and watching Kings Landing be decimated he probably did not want to stick around. Him returning to the place he called Home for the past 5 years actually makes a lot of sense.

I agree about Tyrion, but who is to say that is not going to end in disaster. A cripple king, a hated dwarf as Hand, a female Commander of the Kingsguard and two up jumped peasants on the Small Council is a recipe for disaster. I give it two summers before the first rebellion.

 

5 hours ago, TNTW said:

 

 I think Sansa meant the Northmen wouldn't kneel again....unless it was to her. I got the feeling she wanted the crown, and was really not ok with Bran being chosen.

 

It would have made more sense if that Council picked her to be Queen given Robin, Royce and, presumably the other Vale Lord, would have voted for her, Edmure, already intimidated by her Cat impression, would have done so as would have Tyrion and the other Starks if they got a vote.

Bran makes little sense given there is no real evidence to most of Westeros of why he is so special or that there realm was in any real threat given all the Others simply exploded. Sansa being Queen would have meant the North remaining.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

What an incredible disappointment...

The way Dany went out, Jon back to the frozen north.....and that counsel meeting ? WTF was that ? It was like an SNL skit, or episode of Seinfeld. D and D completely screwed up the Dorne storyline ( sorry, I'm biased) but this travesty of an ending was too much.

So many things left unaddressed, it all felt so rushed, which is a slap in the face to the fans...and the show itself.

Dan and Dave, I wish you NO luck in the wars to come.................

Edited by Dornish Beto

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, FeastForCrows said:

If you read what I wrote you wouldn’t see it as “demeaning”

You offered your own interpretation as to why someone would give a newly crowned monarch a title that would denigrate them to being nothing but their disability or their flaws in general. I read it, I politely disagree. I can't see how that would be common place enough to be anything but wildly implausible.

Edited by darksellsword

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I can't take people being stabbed seriously on this show. Dany and Hotah are insta-dead with one stab. Arya took a bunch to the stomach, fell into a rank river, and was healthy and active the next day, Jaime gets a sword though his stomach and is still talking and manages to make it to Cersei.

Incidentally, I find it also hilarious how Evil Dany is meant to be taken seriously. In a show that has framed vengeance and vindictiveness as heroic actions throughout. We're all worried about Dany! But no one seems disturbed by Arya exterminating House Frey, or Sansa feeding Ramsay to his hounds, or Jon hanging Olly, or Tyrion arming the hill tribes to torment the smallfolk of the Vale, or Cersei blowing up the Sept and killing hundreds. Yeesh.

I'm glad it's over. The embarrassment of it all is finally done.

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This might be even worse than last week's. How did Drogon understand the symbolism of melting a chair? Why didn't Grey Worm kill Jon immediately? Why did Sansa interrupt Edmure? Why was anyone okay with her doing so? Why didn't the Iron Islands declare independence if it's that easy? Why didn't Dorne? How is Sam the Grand Maester? Why is Bronn the Master of Coin? Why was the first small council meeting a comic relief scene? Why bother showing Bran say he'll look for the dragon and then not do so? Who even called that meeting, if Grey Worm still has enough power to be holding prisoners? Why did Yohn Royce get a vote when Robin was right there? Why didn't Robin get a vote? Why did Brienne and Davos get votes? Why did the Unsullied just roll with what was being said? What happens to the remaining Dothraki, why weren't they pillaging and raping and avenging their khaleesi? Why even have a Night's Watch? What... the fuck.... was this?

 

And the dialogue, oh my god. "How do you know it will be good?" "Because I know what good is."

"You freed your brother, and committed treason." "Yes, I committed treason. And you slaughtered a city" -- how do people watch this? Like gee, thanks, characters, for just recounting facts in case I missed last week.

 

Tyrion looking practically right at the camera and just lampshading the entire "We cheered for Dany before this" thing alol just.... absolute trash writing.

 

The first like 15 minutes of Tyrion going through rubble were pretty solid and beautiful. Go figure that as soon as people started opening their mouths, the episode turned to absolute trash.

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3 hours ago, Vashon said:

Why? Why would that be the logical course? Wouldn't the first course be to, oh I dunno, secure much of Essos for ships, ports, supplies etc? Or use the Horde to conquer all of Essos?

I see your point. She's already there and it would be easier.  Yet the moment she left Yonkai, they reverted back to their old ways.  Meereen was a pain in the ass to rule too.  I think she truly believed that Westeros would be easier because they would welcome their true Targ ruler with open arms.  Thats what Viserys believed too and had he actually survived and made it to W he would have died

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Jesus, the first few pages are such a cringefest. Hard to read.

Just glad it's over now. Another poor episode but whatever. Wasn't expecting much. The only good part is the Ghost scene, I bet they put that in last minute because of the F up from episode 4 lol.

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A lot of threads are just dangling there and we're left to pick up the pieces. Do the Dothraki leave for the east? Do they stay in Westeros?

A wider angle is the whole Essos backstory. Was that just a plot device for Dany to travel across the land to the Khalasar, learn the ropes of conquering and governing in Slaver's Bay, endure hardships in Quarth?

What's Daario's response to all this? Is he going to take revenge on Westeros with the liberated slaves?

Doesn't Bran have to pay the Iron Bank? Their "investment" went belly up and I don't think the Golden Company's life insurance policy covers death by dragon fire...

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42 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Jaime was spared when he killed the King and that turned out awful for the realm. I'd say they wisely did not want a repeat of that.

 

 

 

The mad king was reigning the seven kingdoms for decades. Daenerys was not even 'reigning' a few hours, burned the capital down and Cersei just got killed.. I don't think any civilian or non-ally lord would care that Jon murdered her or that it could endanger the realm. 

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7 minutes ago, ThronedOut said:

The question I want answered , what happened to Arya’s beautiful white horse from episode 5?

It was a horse and she rode it out of the city and presumably dismounted.

I give it an 8. There were some silly moments and the Bran as king twist didn't quite work for me simply because Bran has been such a useless, non-entity character in the past two seasons, though the basic idea is solid. The rushed pacing also skimmed over some important things; Sansa's "the north must be free" moment deserved more time and space than that. Overall, though, I'm very pleased. The finale worked thematically and emotionally for me; I teared up a few times, including at Drogon's discovery of Dany's death, Jon and Arya's goodbye, and Brienne writing in the White Book for Jaime. I thought Jon's ending was absolute genius; the secret fantasy prince exiled to the wall after being broken, but getting the freedom to discover and be who he really is. Arya's ending works for me, Sansa's does too (though again, I wish she'd had more to do this episode and season), and I enjoyed the ending Small Council scene. Compared to just about every TV show I've seen with a huge expansive cast and many plotlines (except the Wire), this was a well done and fitting ending.

And something else... I've been following this series now for 15 years, basically through my teenage years and entire adult life. I am truly grateful to have some closure on this story. No, this season wasn't perfect, and I wish the White Walkers hadn't been such an anti-climax and some more questions had been explained relating to the weather, why the Others were invading, etc.... But it feels good to have an ending to this story. So, thank you sincerely to Dan and David, the other writers, the cast, the crew, and GRRM for delivering an ending, and in my opinion, a good ending.

 

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1 hour ago, LHakaLH said:

I can't take people being stabbed seriously on this show. Dany and Hotah are insta-dead with one stab. Arya took a bunch to the stomach, fell into a rank river, and was healthy and active the next day, Jaime gets a sword though his stomach and is still talking and manages to make it to Cersei.

Incidentally, I find it also hilarious how Evil Dany is meant to be taken seriously. In a show that has framed vengeance and vindictiveness as heroic actions throughout. We're all worried about Dany! But no one seems disturbed by Arya exterminating House Frey, or Sansa feeding Ramsay to his hounds, or Jon hanging Olly, or Tyrion arming the hill tribes to torment the smallfolk of the Vale, or Cersei blowing up the Sept and killing hundreds. Yeesh.

I'm glad it's over. The embarrassment of it all is finally done.

I agree with what you are saying about the stabbing but as to the rest I see alot of people saying the same thing. I guess the difference for me is that it felt like the majority of those people deserved it. 

The Frey's murdered a mass of unarmed people at a wedding. 

It would be easier to name something Ramsay hasn't done. He is horrible.

Olly was a participant in Jon's murder. 

Now I'm not saying all of these things were just & good, I'm just saying I think people can relate to why it was done. 

What should have been done to these people as retribution for their crimes? Like what plausible alternative did Arya, Jon, or Sansa have that would have kept them on the right side of good in your eyes?

I'm not saying their were no other options (although I do think they were slim) I'm just curious to know what you think would have been a better thing to do? 

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I enjoyed it and I am glad it is done. Sick of seeing trolls come here the last few weeks and take away from actual discussion.

As the episode went on and they were in the dragon pit I thought for sure we would get a call back to S1 Bealor when Ned was beheaded. I thought that Jon would lose his head for the good of the realm while Sansa and Arya watched. I thought Grey Worm was going to insist on it for peace and Bran and Jon btw would agree to it.

Tyrion finding Jaime and Cersei and breaking down was done well. I held my breath the whole scene though, if they had been alive I would have gone to the dark side and given this a 1.

It was haunting how the ashes fell the entire time knowing that those ashes were most likely those of humans who burned. Grim reminder of what happened and a throwback to WW2 when towns near execution camps would have ash fall on them. Got another real WW2 feel from the scene as Dany came out to address the troops, I am sure it was on purpose. Loved that as she walked out the dragon wings appeared as her own, nice touch.

When Arya was talking to Jon and turned to look at Dany and said I know a killer when I see one, is it just me or did her face not look like Maisie Williams? I can't describe it but I watched it twice and something looks off about her eyes maybe? IDK she just looked different. Gave Jon a nice reminder that if he doesn't kill Dany Sansa and the North will burn.

Liked the Jon and Tyrion prisoner speech, sure as hell beat the Jaime/Tyrion beetle talk! And the last thing Tyrion reminds Jon of, if you don't do this, your sisters burn next.

I also like that Dany never sat on the Throne. Fitting that he whole adult life was spent getting to that point and when it's there she doesn't do it. I think they showed Jon trying one last time to see the good in Dany, and finding only the one who says that no one else in the world gets to decide how to live. The entire world kneels or it burns. You can see the life go out of him and he knows it's done.  I wasn't surprised at all the Drogon didn't burn Jon, I said last week that Jon would kill her and Drogon wouldn't do it. The melting of the throne was not a bad thing since it's what all the death was for, so break the wheel and start over fresh, and Bran doesn't need a throne he brings his own! I do wish that Drogon had used his mouth so carry Dany off. I mean it's possible to do it the way he did, after all hawks and eagles can do it in real life right? The last part about this, I would have assumed Grey Worm would kill Jon immediately.

Not much to say about the dragon pit meeting. I think once it started it was clear Bran would be the King. He is the one who doesn't want power, so he is least likely to abuse it. Didn't like the North getting away so cleanly though. Edmure getting shot down was a call back to every scene he has been in basically.

Small council meeting sucked for me. Bronn being there ruined it. I can see him having High Garden as promised and that has power but having him as master of coin was silly. I assume Bran chose Sam to be his Grand Maester, and who is gonna say no? Pod showing up as KG also made no sense. Cut that entire scene and the episode is better off for it.

The endings.

Arya heading off to parts unknown for me is fitting. She was never going to be some Lady, we have known that since season 1. She wasn't going back to WF, told us on screen two episodes ago. What's left for her to do but to explore? She would be like a wild animal caged up if she was just sitting around, she has to roam. Not gonna guess how she got that direwolf ship so fast though, must've been made in the Iron Islands since it was so fast!

Sansa, well she got what she wanted, to be Queen. 

Jon, punished in the best possible way. Back North, to the nights watch that doesn't exist anymore and is not needed. So, to the true north with Tormund and Ghost. Have to admit when he got there and the gates closed and the screen went black I was like, F you give him his moment with Ghost. Then they did it. So he gets to be free in the only truly free part of Westeros, with Tormund and Ghost and the wildlings who know what he went through for all of them. Not a bad way to live. He will of course be miserable, but he is Jon after all.

All in all I loved the series from beginning to end. Were there some shit moments, yep. Were there some great moments, yep, many many more. For me, this is definitely in my top 5 series of all time. IDK if you hate it or it sucked or whatever, save yourself the time of typing.

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44 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:

It was a horse and she rode it out of the city and presumably dismounted.

And something else... I've been following this series now for 15 years, basically through my teenage years and entire adult life. I am truly grateful to have some closure on this story. No, this season wasn't perfect, and I wish the White Walkers hadn't been such an anti-climax and some more questions had been explained relating to the weather, why the Others were invading, etc.... But it feels good to have an ending to this story. So, thank you sincerely to Dan and David, the other writers, the cast, the crew, and GRRM for delivering an ending, and in my opinion, a good ending.

 

First line, exactly. I can't understand why people say it was a magical horse. The Dothraki, 6 of them, rode horses past her in the very scene before that and yet everyone is shocked that there is a horse there.

As to the second part, I think GRRM said that at the beginning of book 1(not in the book but interviews) magic has returned to Westeros for the first time in (?) years and that has brought with it dragons, wargs, the others etc. I can't find a quote but would swear by it. Now, why did magic come back, is it gone, and will it return again??

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