US Politics: A Midnight Express for Claudia Conway

[Ran]

7 minutes ago, DMC said:

If we're throwing out names, first one that comes to mind is Jonathan Banks.  The Community thing is pretty funny, almost wanna watch it just to see Pascal imitate Goggins.

He doesn't really try to imitate him, but he does crack up like crazy at the "bequethals" scene:

 

[IheartIheartTesla]

I had to (sort of) look it up, but looks like its the one where Josh tries to wrangle some of the 42 votes in the primary in NH by asking Donna to call up one of the families living there, having her promise them increasingly outrageous things. Until she finally gives up and tells them to vote their conscience. Also had a few discussions about why NH/Iowa got to be first in the primary schedule, IIRC.

[DMC]

34 minutes ago, Ran said:

He doesn't really try to imitate him, but he does crack up like crazy at the "bequethals" scene

That clip is awesome.

16 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

I had to (sort of) look it up, but looks like its the one where Josh tries to wrangle some of the 42 votes in the primary in NH by asking Donna to call up one of the families living there

Yep, but the main story of the episode is Bartlet playing chess with Toby and Sam simultaneously.

[Wall Flower]

6 hours ago, Lollygag said:

I imagine. Even the city a just a few hours away is another planet.

On guns, yeah, it's morphed into something really weird sometimes but it didn't come from nowhere. It's another good example of Democrats just saying things that make no sense to them. I grew up in a similar place and if I wanted a gun, it was right there in my parents' closet. They're everywhere. No one locks them up. A teacher brought one to school one time to show around. No big deal. But there's no crime. Like the article says, never lock the door and always keep the keys in the car and nothing ever happens. When Dems say gun availability results in violence, it smacks in the face of our entire life experience, our history and sounds just batshit insane.

I moved to the city only a few hours for college and that's very different. It's a lot more stressful. Everyone is packed in, so many lines, always in the way jockeying for space, territory. Competing. Always trying to keep up with so much stuff. So much stimulus. Add personal stress to that with a gun around though...That's what rural people don't get. How living in the city makes you different.

I don't know what the solution is, but Dems won't convince the rural population of anything so long as they make nonsense claims like guns result in violence and crime in area where there's never any violence or crime. The more Dems push that narrative, the more they dig in, the more Dems push...it's a self-feeding cycle at this point that's gotten to the absurd point it's now God, guns & country when guns used to be just about hunting, wild animal protection, shooting groundhogs tearing up your crop, whatnot.

If there's no crime, why do they need assault rifles and high powered magazines? Gun control is only really effective if it's country-wide but they would have to care about mass shootings and crime in other parts of the country, outside their own bubble (as one of the women put it).

[The Map Guy]

11 hours ago, Lollygag said:

I know you from the book forum and how this comes across isn't your style, so I gotta ask, is this a serious question?

Yes. If you know me from the book forum, you know I pay attention to a lot of details and look at ASOIAF as a bigger picture: pass the pages on the books and onto real life & real current events of the time.

I apologize if I offended anyone by asking them to watch all 52 minutes of that video. It was wrong of me to ask people to watch someone's death. But I invite you to watch up to the 21 minute timestamp before the kneeling and tell me where the incident became "racist."

I am a working-class New Yorker, I am struggling to understand how an incident in Minnesota where a co-worker killed another co-worker at another job sparked anti-racism protests around the country and destroyed businesses. I speak on behalf of workers in NYC, who were unemployed during the first wave of COVID, ready to go back to their stores to work ... only to be unemployed again because the stores were destroyed.

Crime is going up in my neighborhood, it didn't help with the NY no-bail policy. It has gotten worse the with defund-the-police movement and our stupid mayor actually gave in. I don't know if anyone else here in this forum can feel the crime wave around the country, or if they have the privilege of a safe suburban neighborhood.
I know there are a lot of bad cops out there, but there are a lot of good ones too. Years ago, I had a legitimate hate crime in my area ... where a couple of black men fatally assaulted an Asian man, stole his car, and threw his body in the backyard of my building. I praise the NYPD for catching these men while driving in the victim's car a day later. One is serving the maximum sentence after he confessed he targeted the man because he thought Asians were soft targets.

I am totally against hate crimes, but to paint a situation "racist" where no racism occurred ... seems ... racist. If anyone has that timestamp I am looking for, please let me know.

Don't get me wrong, I want justice for George Floyd. What his co-worker did was despicable and I hope he gets many many years in jail for murder. But BLM want us to think this is a random white officer attacking a random black man to his death, but that is far from the truth. They were co-workers that did not get along at their job. Even at the 13:55 minute mark, Officer Chauvin shows up to the scene and said "You're not working with me". This suggests that at their other job, they are treated as equal ... but not out on the streets where Chauvin is on duty as a police officer. Believe it or not, Chauvin probably wants the BLM narrative so his charges are downgraded to manslaughter. If people knew they worked together, it may be upgraded to murder.

In regards to the year 1619 timestamp ... thanks for the history lesson, but that is not going to work at Chauvin's trial.

In regards to an overreaction to using a fake bill ... if Floyd left the scene, the first responding officers probably would have left it alone. The fact that Floyd stayed in his car when the officer arrived at the store, it is the job of the officer to detain Floyd for questioning before he can speed off. The officer might have even let Floyd go if he acted normal and cooperated. He didn't, which is shown on the 0:00 to 3:00 time mark.

I have been arrested before. I have made mistakes. One thing I always did was respect the officer and if he/she told me that I am to be arrested, I won't resist. I'll have my day in court. One time in another city I announced that there was a firearm in my trunk. The officer told me to put my hands on the wheels, I did. He told me to exit the car, I did. He explained that I need to be handcuffed while he looked into my trunk, I let him. He did his search and let me leave (my friend went to jail at that time, but that part is irrelevant)

In regards to the statistics where America is 63% white and 13% black and the act of police brutality is not proportional ... well police respond to 911 calls (Calls, not Criminals). That percentage becomes irrelevant. And each situation are handle independently ... whether the person has a weapon or not, whether if they cooperate or not. When the calls come in, the police must respond without racial prejudice. 
Imagine if a 911 operator had to follow a racial quota?
Operator: 911 Operator ... how may I assist you?
Caller: A man just punched me and stole my yellow car. My dog is in the backseat. He is driving west on the boulevard.
Operator: Maam, what was the color of that man?
Caller: He was latino.
Operator: Sorry maam, we can't help you. According to our racial equality policy, we must have 1 white person commit a crime before we address a latino criminal. We already had 1 latino criminal this morning, so we need to wait for a white one before we respond to yours.

Don't get me wrong. There are racist cops ... but using modified narratives to burn the country down doesn't solve the problem. In fact, it pisses people off to vote for Trump.

[IheartIheartTesla]

54 minutes ago, DMC said:

That clip is awesome.

Yep, but the main story of the episode is Bartlet playing chess with Toby and Sam simultaneously.

If they're trying to promote voting then the B-story is a better fit. And I do remember the chess part (a bit unrealistic, as most chess plots are on screen)

[Centrist Simon Steele]

The problem is that you think "racism" is a physical thing you can see every time it occurs. So I don't know how anyone here could possibly answer your question in a satisfactory way. You have your mind made up, you have your points all lined out, and you believe you've isolated your criteria for "proof" of racism to such a narrow degree that no one can provide you proof. 

[Mindwalker]

2 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

I hate it when people post videos unavailable in the rest of the world. 

Oh sorry, I assumed if I can watch in from Europe, it's available everywhere.

[Larry of the Lawn]

@The Map Guy

Would the other officers have just stood there and let a coworker murder someone, with plenty of opportunity and time to intervene, if Floyd was white?  Would the Chauvin and co have been charged sooner if Floyd was white?  

Quote

I am totally against hate crimes, but to paint a situation "racist" where no racism occurred ... seems ... racist. If anyone has that timestamp I am looking for, please let me know.

This isn't the gotcha you think it is.  It just shows concern trolling for 'racism'.  

 

Also your statistics don't mean what you think they mean, and absolutely no one is calling for racial quotas on 911 responses.  This is one of the dumber strawmen I've seen anyone trot out in recent memory.  People make bullshit calls about black people to the police all the time.  If this bias isn't being taken into account everytime they respond to a 'african american male' call they're acting on racist principles from the get-go.  See starbucks, Christian Cooper, etc.

 

Maybe you should read the Justice Dept report on policing in Ferguson.  The police were stopping blacks at a ridiculous rate compared to whites, despite being much less likely for these stops to result in convictions.  And much more likely to result in police brutality or use of force.  This is the trend over most of the country.  At this point, if a person doesn't think there is a systemic racism problem in policing and the justice system, that person is either willfully ignorant or recognizes the problem and doesn't care.  

The police manage to take white dudes that shoot up movies theaters into custody without murdering them, and can sit there and watch a bunch of white guys armed with assault rifles occupy a state house, or let a white kid in Kenosha shoot up protesters and run away through the street, still carrying his rifle, unmolested.  In the meantime a black guy looks at them wrong and they shoot him, or spend the length of that video you linked murdering him in front of their coworkers.  It's not just Chauvin, it's the other cops just standing there.  It's the lack of response.  It's the people who are either disingenuous enough, racist enough, or just plain fucking stupid enough to equate George Floyd to that kid Cannon that all the right wing nuts are so upset about.  That kid's murderer was arrested immediately.  

1 hour ago, The Map Guy said:

The officer might have even let Floyd go if he acted normal and cooperated. He didn't, which is shown on the 0:00 to 3:00 time mark.

Totally fine to just murder people for "not acting normal".  The fact that you even think this acceptable or is a justification for anything speaks volumes.

If, when you got arrested, you had reached towards your pocket or even resisted or swore at the cops would murder have been an appropriate response?

As to your 1619 comment?  Who cares about that in regards to Chauvin's trial?  He's on trial for murder, not for doing a racism.  The only time stamp you need is the entire fucking video.  A white cop figured he was above the law and that killing someone he saw as less than human was ok.  And apparently all his fellow cops thought that was fine too.   

Yeah it sucks that people's lives may have been affected by property damage caused during rioting.  You know what sucks worse?  Getting your life ended!  Getting murdered by the cops.  If they were held accountable or faced the same kind of justice they do for killing white people these .protests and associated property damage wouldn't be happening.  

As one working class NYer to another, maybe you should actually think about stuff before you post.  I know this probably seems crazy to you, because I'm sure it's not what you intended, no way, no how, but your entire post just comes across as concern trolling and trying to justify racist behaviors.  

No one who is getting pissed because they don't see the racism here was ever going to do anything but vote for Trump anyway.  That's a completely bullshit argument.  There isn't one fucking person in the entire damned country who thought "you know, I was going to stay home or vote for Joe Biden, but I'm so pissed off by these claims of racism i just don't see that I'll vote for the open racist instead." Not one fucking person.

eta: TLDR; solo's post below, and fury resurrected's before, are much better and to the point and less agressive.  probably just read that instead.

[sologdin]

 lean into being uncomfortable to learn and grow as a person

this is diangelo's thesis in white fragility.  it's kinda analogous to how judith butler wants to trouble gender, solicit it at its foundation, shake it in its entirety. a bit of self-overcoming, if we prefer a nietzschean rhetoric. 

 

all I am asking is when this confrontation became a "racial" incident.

whereas state violence workers thought it appropriate under the applicable statutes to seize a person who is not a beneficiary of the race privilege for a misdemeanor offense;

whereas the seizure commenced as a terry stop on the basis of witness reports of a potential misdemeanor offense in a context where white persons may not be suspected or reported;

whereas the misdemeanor offense aforesaid requires proof of mens rea;

whereas the proof of mens rea aforesaid is absent on the showing made and accordingly probable cause for the seizure is absent;

whereas the state violence workers filled the evidentiary gaps with narratives about dangerous black persons to impute fictively the requisite mens rea and supply falsely the reasonable articulable suspicion to hold the victim with violence escalating incrementally to lethality, with race-based illogic at each step of the escalation;

whereas this confrontation occurs not isolated but in the context of a repeated and predictable pattern wherein state violence workers initiate and escalate terry stops to the point of lethality on the basis of race fictions;

wherefore the confrontation became a racial incident.

[Fragile Bird]

Jerry Falwell is getting a $10.5 M compensation package!

Sin pays!

[Guy Kilmore]

1 hour ago, The Map Guy said:

Yes. If you know me from the book forum, you know I pay attention to a lot of details and look at ASOIAF as a bigger picture: pass the pages on the books and onto real life & real current events of the time.

I apologize if I offended anyone by asking them to watch all 52 minutes of that video. It was wrong of me to ask people to watch someone's death. But I invite you to watch up to the 21 minute timestamp before the kneeling and tell me where the incident became "racist."

I am a working-class New Yorker, I am struggling to understand how an incident in Minnesota where a co-worker killed another co-worker at another job sparked anti-racism protests around the country and destroyed businesses. I speak on behalf of workers in NYC, who were unemployed during the first wave of COVID, ready to go back to their stores to work ... only to be unemployed again because the stores were destroyed.

Crime is going up in my neighborhood, it didn't help with the NY no-bail policy. It has gotten worse the with defund-the-police movement and our stupid mayor actually gave in. I don't know if anyone else here in this forum can feel the crime wave around the country, or if they have the privilege of a safe suburban neighborhood.
I know there are a lot of bad cops out there, but there are a lot of good ones too. Years ago, I had a legitimate hate crime in my area ... where a couple of black men fatally assaulted an Asian man, stole his car, and threw his body in the backyard of my building. I praise the NYPD for catching these men while driving in the victim's car a day later. One is serving the maximum sentence after he confessed he targeted the man because he thought Asians were soft targets.

I am totally against hate crimes, but to paint a situation "racist" where no racism occurred ... seems ... racist. If anyone has that timestamp I am looking for, please let me know.

Don't get me wrong, I want justice for George Floyd. What his co-worker did was despicable and I hope he gets many many years in jail for murder. But BLM want us to think this is a random white officer attacking a random black man to his death, but that is far from the truth. They were co-workers that did not get along at their job. Even at the 13:55 minute mark, Officer Chauvin shows up to the scene and said "You're not working with me". This suggests that at their other job, they are treated as equal ... but not out on the streets where Chauvin is on duty as a police officer. Believe it or not, Chauvin probably wants the BLM narrative so his charges are downgraded to manslaughter. If people knew they worked together, it may be upgraded to murder.

In regards to the year 1619 timestamp ... thanks for the history lesson, but that is not going to work at Chauvin's trial.

In regards to an overreaction to using a fake bill ... if Floyd left the scene, the first responding officers probably would have left it alone. The fact that Floyd stayed in his car when the officer arrived at the store, it is the job of the officer to detain Floyd for questioning before he can speed off. The officer might have even let Floyd go if he acted normal and cooperated. He didn't, which is shown on the 0:00 to 3:00 time mark.

I have been arrested before. I have made mistakes. One thing I always did was respect the officer and if he/she told me that I am to be arrested, I won't resist. I'll have my day in court. One time in another city I announced that there was a firearm in my trunk. The officer told me to put my hands on the wheels, I did. He told me to exit the car, I did. He explained that I need to be handcuffed while he looked into my trunk, I let him. He did his search and let me leave (my friend went to jail at that time, but that part is irrelevant)

In regards to the statistics where America is 63% white and 13% black and the act of police brutality is not proportional ... well police respond to 911 calls (Calls, not Criminals). That percentage becomes irrelevant. And each situation are handle independently ... whether the person has a weapon or not, whether if they cooperate or not. When the calls come in, the police must respond without racial prejudice. 
Imagine if a 911 operator had to follow a racial quota?
Operator: 911 Operator ... how may I assist you?
Caller: A man just punched me and stole my yellow car. My dog is in the backseat. He is driving west on the boulevard.
Operator: Maam, what was the color of that man?
Caller: He was latino.
Operator: Sorry maam, we can't help you. According to our racial equality policy, we must have 1 white person commit a crime before we address a latino criminal. We already had 1 latino criminal this morning, so we need to wait for a white one before we respond to yours.

Don't get me wrong. There are racist cops ... but using modified narratives to burn the country down doesn't solve the problem. In fact, it pisses people off to vote for Trump.

Hey, other people are responding to things with much more eloquence that I can.  It is a shame that you missed Kay Fury's reply as she is a Person of Color living in Minneapolis at the heart where this went down.  I'm going to post a video explaining a perspective, again with much more passion and eloquence than I can.  Mine is about 6 minutes in length and no one dies in it, so should be pretty low ask. 

[Martell Spy]

35 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Jerry Falwell is getting a $10.5 M compensation package!

Sin pays!

No, when a rich white man is forced to retire early for bad behavior and loses out on future earnings he has been cancelled, no matter how big the golden parachute. We're supposed to be outraged at this upset of the status quo.

[Altherion]

2 hours ago, Wall Flower said:

If there's no crime, why do they need assault rifles and high powered magazines?

Deterrent. Right now, the people in power and their servants in the media and academia routinely insult the groups that pro-gun people predominantly belong to, clearly look down on them and slowly chisel away at their way of life, but they don't do anything drastic. If that should ever change, an armed population can be much more of a nuisance than an unarmed one.

[Week]

15 minutes ago, Altherion said:

Deterrent. Right now, the people in power and their servants in the media and academia routinely insult the groups that pro-gun people predominantly belong to, clearly look down on them and slowly chisel away at their way of life, but they don't do anything drastic. If that should ever change, an armed population can be much more of a nuisance than an unarmed one.

Are you posting this from the future or the past? Also, why are you using your time machine for a stupid purpose like posting on this forum?

The triumvirate you describe is currently-

1) GOP Prez, Supreme Court, Senate, most governors, etc.

2) Faux News, OANN, Daily Caller, etc. further enabled by Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube

3) Astroturfing by FedSoc, Toilet Paper USA (TPUSA), etc.

Eta- Last night the (alleged) murder of two protestors was by a 17 year old that drove 30 miles across state lines to *checks notes* deter crime.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/investigators-focus-on-armed-white-vigilantes-after-2-shooting-deaths-in-kenosha-protests_n_5f465ffbc5b6cf66b2b131c2 

[Fragile Bird]

11 minutes ago, Altherion said:

Deterrent. Right now, the people in power and their servants in the media and academia routinely insult the groups that pro-gun people predominantly belong to, clearly look down on them and slowly chisel away at their way of life, but they don't do anything drastic. If that should ever change, an armed population can be much more of a nuisance than an unarmed one.

That is one of the most bizarre responses you have posted here, ever. And you have posted a lot of them.

[TrueMetis]

20 minutes ago, Altherion said:

Deterrent. Right now, the people in power and their servants in the media and academia routinely insult the groups that pro-gun people predominantly belong to, clearly look down on them and slowly chisel away at their way of life, but they don't do anything drastic. If that should ever change, an armed population can be much more of a nuisance than an unarmed one.

Last night three people were shot by a right wing nutjob that was part of a group the police were siding with and talking about how much they appreciated, but sure it's the people in power that are against them.

[Larry of the Lawn]

5 minutes ago, Week said:

Are you posting this from the future or the past? Also, why are you using your time machine for a stupid purpose like posting on this forum?

The triumvirate you describe is currently-

1) GOP Prez, Supreme Court, Senate, most governors, etc.

2) Faux News, OANN, Daily Caller, etc. further enabled by Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube

3) Astroturfing by FedSoc, Toilet Paper USA (TPUSA), etc.

Eta- Last night the (alleged) murder of two protestors was by a 17 year old that drove 30 miles across state lines to *checks notes* deter crime.

He's just upset we've been making fun of the McCloskey's and threatening their way of life.  These poor rich fucks get subjected to all sorts of ridicule after irresponsibly waving guns around at protesters and then get a speaking gig at the RNC.  It's a rugged and simple life you or I couldn't understand, but luckily we have these brave patriots carrying our water and relieving our burden.  And what do they get for it?  

 

The irony of it all is that as stupid and misguided as a bunch of Dem gun reforms have been (aesthetic shit like thumb hole stocks, flash suppressors, etc), they won't even agree to shit like closing background check loopholes.  No one has ever asked to have Ma and Pa Homesteader surrender their Woodchuck Blastin' 22 LR.  If there hadn't been total intransigence on any measures to reduce gun deaths from suicide and accidents, looking at you, @Lollygag, due to the NRA backing gun manufacturers over gun owners, maybe we'd be having a different conversation.  We had like 35 threads about gun safety and rights and gun control after Sandy Hook on this very board.  If anything became clear during that time, it was that my neighbors aren't willing to even discuss this shit, even after being guaranteed that no one wants their fucking bolt action hunting rifles or shotguns.  I'm a little sympathetic to a slippery slope argument here, but the sheer number of firearms out there should make it obvious that it is physically impossible for anyone to take mer gerns!!!!
 

All this concern trolling about taking guns or catering to racists who don't know/admit their racists is just a bunch of people who are too afraid to actually admit what they're defending.  If you don't mind piles of dead schoolchildren because that's preferable to trading in your semi auto AR-15 for a bolt action .308 just say so!  We can read between the lines!  Even us uneducated rural stupid blue collar leftists!  We get it! 

[Larry of the Lawn]

3 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

Last night three people were shot by a right wing nutjob that was part of a group the police were siding with and talking about how much they appreciated, but sure it's the people in power that are against them.

Hey buddy, check your privilege, if he hadn't murdered people one of them might have broken some windows.

[TrueMetis]

10 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Hey buddy, check your privilege, if he hadn't murdered people one of them might have broken some windows.

See the fucked up thing is that's literally the argument, that and it was "self defence" this being despite the fact that a) motherfucker was too young to legally have an AR-15 b) he literally came from out of state to cause trouble, something that when you accuse protesters of doing totally invalidates them in the mind of the RWNJ allowing them to be beaten without mercy, and c) this is obvious bullshit.