Covid-19 #18: Everything Old is New Again!

[Darzin]

1 minute ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Yeah. But the downside is you live in a country where government can do that to you on a whim. 

Well yeah... My point was that other countries might have overestimated the effectivness of lockdowns based on their success in China, when using the word "lockdown" hardly describes the same thing. 

[DaveSumm]

4 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Because they are a short term fix to a long term problem.

Its like giving someone with GERD a couple of Tums. Will it work for a while? Sure.

You’re still gonna have heartburn unless you quit drinking, quit citrus fruits, quit tomatoes, maybe sleep almost fucking upright, try (!!!) to avoid stress in your life, and possibly take a longer-term antacid if your bones can handle the side effects.

I know of no such equivalent list for pandemics. I can only think of testing at a scale far in excess of anything we’ve seen from any country, to the point where you can pretty much pull in for a quick test on your way to any destination. But if we’re not there, we’re not there. Speaking from the UK, I don’t see how we reverse the numbers without lockdown-like restrictions.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 hours ago, Darzin said:

Well yeah... My point was that other countries might have overestimated the effectivness of lockdowns based on their success in China, when using the word "lockdown" hardly describes the same thing. 

I actually support the draconian methods, maybe not welding people into their apartments though. 

The problem is there's no one size fits all solution. What could work in urban areas probably wouldn't work in rural areas, and vice versa. 

[BigFatCoward]

11 hours ago, Darzin said:

Well yeah... My point was that other countries might have overestimated the effectivness of lockdowns based on their success in China, when using the word "lockdown" hardly describes the same thing. 

That was perfectly clear to everyone, other than the person wanting to make an irrelevant point.   

[Kalbear]

This is interesting - premature births have gone down over 20% during the pandemic. 

 

 

[Clueless Northman]

19 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Why? 

Because WHO has always obeyed its Western masters, who worship market economy above all else. That's why they didn't want travel ban, then didn't want people to wear masks when they were sorely lacking across Western countries.

 

20 hours ago, Rippounet said:

The government is desperate to avoid another lockdown, but as the president of the Doctors' Association said, what's really needed is more hospital beds. I wouldn't mind the curfew if I knew the healthcare system was getting a huge injection of funds and hiring massively.

Having more beds won't help if you don't have the medics and nurses that can work them. This is the true bottleneck nowadays, and you don't grow such nurses in 6 months. This is why many governments were totally foolish in the way they handled the summer. They knew they wouldn't fare better if things went really bad, like in March, yet acted as if covid would fully disappear, or as if they suddenly would have thousands of beds, medics and infinite supply of drugs for autumn. Well, they don't, but they fucked up a second time in the same year, and eventually will have to go for harsh measures once again. Regional lockdowns at the very least, before November is over. That, or global warming helps us real good and we have way warmer temperatures for Nov. / Dec., less people stuck indoors with closed windows, and the like - though even then lack of Vitamin D and of UV to destroy the virus will still be aggravating factors.

 

13 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I know of no such equivalent list for pandemics. I can only think of testing at a scale far in excess of anything we’ve seen from any country, to the point where you can pretty much pull in for a quick test on your way to any destination. But if we’re not there, we’re not there. Speaking from the UK, I don’t see how we reverse the numbers without lockdown-like restrictions.

This is why we need cheap quite reliable saliva tests with results in 5 minutes, that are mass-produced (I mean really mass-produced, at least tens of millions each day in America, same in Europe). Then we can pretty much control the pendamic and ensure a level of safety in restaurants, clubs, gyms, public transport and the like, that would beat what we've achieved so far - though masks would still be of some help in many cases.

[The Anti-Targ]

I feel like people are imagining the use of a saliva test that is not appropriate for a test with low sensitivity (false negatives).

[Zorral]

31 minutes ago, Clueless Northman said:

Because WHO has always obeyed its Western masters, who worship market economy above all else. That's why they didn't want travel ban, then didn't want people to wear masks when they were sorely lacking across Western countries.

 

Having more beds won't help if you don't have the medics and nurses that can work them. This is the true bottleneck nowadays, and you don't grow such nurses in 6 months. This is why many governments were totally foolish in the way they handled the summer. They knew they wouldn't fare better if things went really bad, like in March, yet acted as if covid would fully disappear, or as if they suddenly would have thousands of beds, medics and infinite supply of drugs for autumn. Well, they don't, but they fucked up a second time in the same year, and eventually will have to go for harsh measures once again. Regional lockdowns at the very least, before November is over. That, or global warming helps us real good and we have way warmer temperatures for Nov. / Dec., less people stuck indoors with closed windows, and the like - though even then lack of Vitamin D and of UV to destroy the virus will still be aggravating factors.

 

This is why we need cheap quite reliable saliva tests with results in 5 minutes, that are mass-produced (I mean really mass-produced, at least tens of millions each day in America, same in Europe). Then we can pretty much control the pendamic and ensure a level of safety in restaurants, clubs, gyms, public transport and the like, that would beat what we've achieved so far - though masks would still be of some help in many cases.

Silly worries.  Hart 'o ice and all those who are all Heigh, heigh a nonny-no about no masks, no shutdowns, let herd immunity rip coz you know the economy gets hurts a whole lot more than people and matters more than people -- well, they'll take care of carrying out the dead and burying them, they will wash the bodies of the sick and change their diapers, and turn their bodies (coz, bedsores), feed them broth, scrub the floors, change the sheets and do all that too for the housebound trying to recover strength from being sick, and take care of their kids and feed them and clean their houses.  So who needs masks, nurses, or anything at all?  Anyway, this stuff is going to magically appear and they don't have to do anything and anyway it's not to gonna get THEM, just all those people who are losers and stupid and shouldn't even be in the UK, say, at all.

OTOH, maybe the UK can import more trained and experienced medical people from Jamaica and Cuba -- which, of course, is illegal to do in the US, so I guess we're just effed, right?

[Heartofice]

10 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Silly worries.  Hart 'o ice and all those who are all Heigh, heigh a nonny-no about no masks, no shutdowns, let herd immunity rip coz you know the economy gets hurts a whole lot more than people and matters more than people -- well, they'll take care of carrying out the dead and burying them, they will wash the bodies of the sick and change their diapers, and turn their bodies (coz, bedsores), feed them broth, scrub the floors, change the sheets and do all that too for the housebound trying to recover strength from being sick, and take care of their kids and feed them and clean their houses.  So who needs masks, nurses, or anything at all?  Anyway, this stuff is going to magically appear and they don't have to do anything and anyway it's not to gonna get THEM, just all those people who are losers and stupid and shouldn't even be in the UK, say, at all.

OTOH, maybe the UK can import more trained and experienced medical people from Jamaica and Cuba -- which, of course, is illegal to do in the US, so I guess we're just effed, right?

....... 

I just...

 

wow.

[Starkess]

Well I've been feeling poorly this week due to a persistent sore throat. I'm not too worried about covid, as I understand this is not a particularly common symptom and I don't have any others. I've had strep a lot before and this is what it seemed like. So I had a telehealth appointment today and the doctor agreed that it sounded like strep. Given the exposure risks with the pandemic, he didn't think it worth coming into an office for a test, so we're just treating it as strep for now. It's weird how many secondary effects a pandemic can have.

17 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

He needs to weigh a fair bit more at that height. 

That's my bf's height/weight and he's perfectly healthy. Bodies are different.

[lessthanluke]

6 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

....... 

I just...

 

wow.

Zorral lost the plot a while ago. I stopped even engaging. 

[Kalbear]

This fucking country.

 

 

[The Anti-Targ]

Cool, Covid-19 is delivering another present just in time for Halloween: hearing loss.

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/experts-highlight-new-condition-covid-4603630

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Starkess said:

That's my bf's height/weight and he's perfectly healthy. Bodies are different.

He could be both perfectly healthy and in need of an old Jewish woman yelling that he needs to eat more. 

[Clueless Northman]

51 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Testing, contract tracing, social distancing, universal mask wearing. Working from home if you have a job that is conducive to it. Taking precautions to protect people who can’t work from home, such as properly wearing masks and keeping a respectful distance. No large crowds indoors or in confined spaces. 

Testing and tracing are what should've been done all across Europe and America in the past months. It worked in some E. Asian countries, but they managed to keep cases numbers quite low. When you have 5-10% positive tests and thousands a day, what governments put into place for low cases summer will eventually collapse, because it was never meant to stop a raging pandemic, just stop a few cases popping here and there.

And of course we know why it collapses and why cases rise a lot eventually. As you said, it's because a fair share of the people are too fucking stupid to be trusted with the global health and well-being of the whole population. So either we have the means of shutting them up and forcing to comply with rules as soon as cases drop ridiculously low, or we have to go with way harsher measures when things go terribly bad. I just wish governments would be upfront that 2nd lockdowns are happening because they, governments, fucked up big time, and because a sizable amount of raging assholes fucked up the whole society by behaving like brainless jerks during the past months - and both groups deserve public scorn and genuine punishment.

Bottom line is that, alas, test and trace only works fine when you're dealing with a population wholly made up of sensible individuals, with barely any idiot or selfish prick in the midst, or at the very least with a population that is massively and highly compliant with any rule you impose onto it - something quite difficult with a lot of Western countries.

[Fragile Bird]

Holy smokes, I just took a look at some numbers in the US. Wisconsin! More than 3,750 cases. At that rate Canada would have had 23,000 or so instead of 2,300 today. Or, if Wisconsin was like Canada it would have had 375 new cases.
 

And France! More than 30,000 cases today, and the UK with almost 20,000. Geez, be careful you guys! Wear your masks, social distance and wash your hands. 

[williamjm]

3 hours ago, Clueless Northman said:

This is why we need cheap quite reliable saliva tests with results in 5 minutes, that are mass-produced (I mean really mass-produced, at least tens of millions each day in America, same in Europe).

I was reading this earlier about a test which is claimed to give 5 minute results, although from swabs not saliva. It sounds like an interesting idea although it still needs to be turned from a lab experiment into something that is approved for widespread use.

[The Anti-Targ]

22 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Fortunately, my GERD has subsided with the non-pharmaceutical interventions and the occasional Tums antacid.

My kiddo’s stress will decrease measurably once he goes to grad school and no longer has to put up with me, Mistress of the Castle. He’s also less stressed with doing his volunteer work twice a week; it gets him out of the house.

I’ve ordered a case of yellow whole peeled tomatoes; they seem to taste less acidic than the red ones.

I had to Google GERD. I totally, sort of have that. Though acid foods / citrus aren't an issue and I don't know about alcohol since I don't use. For me it's mostly starches, so a keto diet keeps it under control. I have a La-Z-Boy in my bedroom for when I do indulge myself for dinner. Wheat is worst, but corn, rice and potato are also a problem, so it's not a gluten thing. Can't you get red acid free tomatoes around your way?

[The Anti-Targ]

3 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I’m just gonna confess...I ordered a case of whole, peeled yellow tomatoes, the other day. 

Yellow tomatoes are milder in flavor, but more importantly, are less acidic.

There is no such thing as an “acid-free tomato” much less a red tomato. But, you can make a GREAT tasting tomato sauce with a can of yellow tomatoes, too - it just will be a more mild flavor.

I mean https://www.zealandia.co.nz/products/growfresh/tomato-roma-acid-free/

I guess acid free is a misnomer, but it is low acid and red.

[Loge]

6 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Holy smokes, I just took a look at some numbers in the US. Wisconsin! More than 3,750 cases. At that rate Canada would have had 23,000 or so instead of 2,300 today. Or, if Wisconsin was like Canada it would have had 375 new cases.
 

And France! More than 30,000 cases today, and the UK with almost 20,000. Geez, be careful you guys! Wear your masks, social distance and wash your hands. 

Case figures are skyrocketing across Europe. France isn't even the worst. Belgium reports more than 10,000 cases. Fortunately, the number of deaths isn't anywhere near the March/April figures. Yet. But governments will definitely have to impose new restrictions.