US Politics: The Motorcade of Madness

[kairparavel]

43 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

That’s odd.  Maybe it’s regional but I still frequently address people who I only know by first name as “Mr. or Ms. [first name]”.

It's very specifically the South and speaks to plantation manners. I've experienced it in various companies I've worked at in the Northern Virginia and DC area and I HATE IT. I am Kelly, not Miss Kelly nor Mrs. Kelly. UGH. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Reminds me of my final highschool years (Oberstufe for our Germans).

Very brief background and simplified background of German education:

Regular school lasted 13 years when I graduated (they switched to 12 some time after), if you wanted to have access to high education (college/University).

You can do the math in final highschool years, pretty much all of us approached adulthood (legally speaking) by turning 18 (note to the affluent parents, whose kids ask to spend a year in Germany, they can legally buy and drink beer from age 16). Which caused some sorta headache for one of our geography teachers. Very sweet man, but he was feeling a bit uncomfortable with addressing us rather informally with our first name from that point on, too informal etc. We assured him it's fine. We compromised in the end with a more local variety, First name, but with the more formal sentence structure (German is not English, we can do that).

[DMC]

1 hour ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I fully support Biden's decision to forgo any further debates. Trump is not worthy of giving any further platform.

It's hard to keep up, because it's changed at least a half dozen times throughout the day, but let's be clear about one thing - Trump pulled out of next week's debate when the commission decided it would be held virtually.  Now, it appears there will be a debate on October 22 - or at least both campaigns currently agree to that - and Biden has rejected Trump's proposal of pushing a third debate back to October 29.

In other news, Wasserman at CPR just updated their House ratings.  7 seats shifted in the Dems' favor.  226 seats are now at least Lean Democrat with 25 undecideds.  Wasserman's writeup is subscription required, but here it's quoted as:

Quote

"Republicans no longer have a realistic path to picking up the 17 seats they need for a majority," the report reads. "Right now, the most likely outcome is a Democratic net gain of between five and ten seats, with anything from no net change to a Democratic gain of 15 seats possible."

Interestingly, it appears CPR is being slightly more bullish on Dem gains than 538's "model."  The Dems currently hold 232 seats (there's 5 vacancies), and 538's average outcome has them winning 237.2 seats, or a five seat pickup.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

6 hours ago, Trebla said:

All Hail the ELECTORS!

 

I wonder what prospefity--maybe "pro" specific? I didn't know about this guy before, but now that I've looked into him, what a hero. A libertarian who claims to believe in the flourishing of the human condition (whatever the fuck that means).

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 hour ago, kairparavel said:

It's very specifically the South and speaks to plantation manners. I've experienced it in various companies I've worked at in the Northern Virginia and DC area and I HATE IT. I am Kelly, not Miss Kelly nor Mrs. Kelly. UGH. 

That’s fair.  If it makes you uncomfortable people should stop doing it.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

2 hours ago, A Prince of Dorne said:

Good results for Harris post-debate. 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/harris-pence-vp-debate-poll/

I'm glad to see this. It seemed objectively true to me that she outperformed Pence, but you never know how people might respond to a woman who is a person of color standing up to a privileged white man. 

[Prince of the North]

1 hour ago, kairparavel said:

It's very specifically the South and speaks to plantation manners. I've experienced it in various companies I've worked at in the Northern Virginia and DC area and I HATE IT. I am Kelly, not Miss Kelly nor Mrs. Kelly. UGH. 

I really, really dislike this sort of thing, too!  I really hate being called "Boss" whenever I travel to, for example, Atlanta.  I am no one's "Boss" and that's exactly how I like it (having actually been many people's boss over the years).  

[Fury Resurrected]

2 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Back when I was ten or twelve years old, my closest friends all called each other's parents by their first names, at the parents' preference. These were all affluent white/Jewish families in the middle of Los Angeles, late 80s. Like the neighborhood where Swingers took place.

I was never able to break my own hard-drilled training to call them Mr and Mrs, so I was the one kid in our clique to do that. The parents all seemed to find my manners charming. Hell, I called my in-laws Mr and Mrs for the first year or so that my wife and I dated.

My friends all knew to call my mom Mrs Gabriel, without being told though.

Hell *I* even call my parents by their first names. Friends rarely called Fury Sr anything because he’s not exactly a chatty guy, but I think they used his first name too. I do not personally enjoy a Mrs/Miss/Ms address at all, but I will tolerate Ms. Anyone calling me Miss or Mrs (first or last name) is getting a stern correction.

[tzanth]

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

That’s odd.  Maybe it’s regional but I still frequently address people who I only know by first name as “Mr. or Ms. [first name]”.

The only time I would ever use Mr. or Ms. is in written correspondence with someone I've never met. Calling someone Mr. or Ms. in person seems sort of comical and vaguely insulting. Its defiantly not a term I would use for someone I respect. 

[tzanth]

26 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

I really, really dislike this sort of thing, too!  I really hate being called "Boss" whenever I travel to, for example, Atlanta.  I am no one's "Boss" and that's exactly how I like it (having actually been many people's boss over the years).  

I can't stand honorifics either. But I also think its a class based thing. It is easy to drop the honorific or see it as demeaning when you are already coming from a position of privilege. 

[DMC]

I must admit, when I instruct students I hate when they call me Mr. or Dr, although that's just because I have a Peter Pan complex and it makes me feel old.  Frankly, though, in my experience students don't really call me anything in person.  It's just raise your hand (or not) and ask the question.  When I introduce myself to students I do so as Derek (my first name), and that's also how I respond to their emails.  In terms of emails I do enjoy when they call me Dr./Mr. Derek - I don't think it's a regional thing, instead I'm pretty sure they don't realize it's my first rather than last name.  I've also had a couple students over the years refer to me by my last name as if it was my first - that's the funniest.

In terms of professional correspondence, I will always start emails with people I don't know as Dr. ____.  I also will address superiors that way until they tell me not to (which they almost always do) just a courtesy.  Oh yeah, that's true in terms of TA'ing too.  When I referred to the professor in charge of the course to students I'll alway call them Dr. _______.

In terms of just acquaintances, no, I would never refer them with an honorific.  I do seem to remember calling friends' parents by Mr. or Mrs. growing up though.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

21 minutes ago, tzanth said:

The only time I would ever use Mr. or Ms. is in written correspondence with someone I've never met. Calling someone Mr. or Ms. in person seems sort of comical and vaguely insulting. Its defiantly not a term I would use for someone I respect. 

When I was doing home closings earlier this year I would always address the buyers as “Mr. or Ms.” unless specifically asked to do otherwise.  I would have been disrespectful to address my clients by their first name unless invited to.

[Kalbear]

This seems like a reasonable way to run a country

 

[Ran]

Vox has a piece from Matthew Yglesias on how President Biden could enact some pretty major stuff through an emergency budget reconciliation that would set the stage for putting the GOP on the back foot and breaking their intransigence in working across the aisle. It seems a fairly convincing, nuts-and-bolts explanation that seems almost too easy, so I wonder where the real catch may be. It's one thing to say "Democrats always shoot themselves in the foot", but how would that happen in this scenario provided there's a Dem majority holding the Senate? Basically pile a bunch of popular spending in the reconciliation, including a lot of short-term stimulus, and reap the rewards. Hard to see how it could be screwed up.

[tzanth]

10 minutes ago, DMC said:

I must admit, when I instruct students I hate when they call me Mr. or Dr, although that's just because I have a Peter Pan complex and it makes me feel old.  Frankly, though, in my experience students don't really call me anything in person.  It's just raise your hand (or not) and ask the question.  When I introduce myself to students I do so as Derek (my first name), and that's also how I respond to their emails.  In terms of emails I do enjoy when they call me Dr./Mr. Derek - I don't think it's a regional thing, instead I'm pretty sure they don't realize it's my first rather than last name.  I've also had a couple students over the years refer to me by my last name as if it was my first - that's the funniest.

In terms of professional correspondence, I will always start emails with people I don't know as Dr. ____.  I also will address superiors that way until they tell me not to (which they almost always do) just a courtesy.  Oh yeah, that's true in terms of TA'ing too.  When I referred to the professor in charge of the course to students I'll alway call them Dr. _______.

In terms of just acquaintances, no, I would never refer them with an honorific.  I do seem to remember calling friends' parents by Mr. or Mrs. growing up though.

At the risk of derailing the thread, I do think this is an issue of privilege. Most first-generation professors I know prefer to be addressed as a "Dr.", while those whose parents are professors almost always prefer to be called by their first name. I personally dislike being addressed as a "Dr." and always use my first name. I can't shake the feeling that it is somewhat classist to go around using honorifics, but I'll admit that feeling itself is probably a product of my relatively privileged background. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

12 minutes ago, Kalibear said:

This seems like a reasonable way to run a country

 

Always be the last person in the room to talk to him if you want him to do your bidding.....

[Fez]

No details yet...

What do we think? Has Pence now tested positive, Trump taken a turn for the worse, or something else?

In any case, seems like Harris and everyone on her team at the debate should stay away from Biden for now; just in case.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, tzanth said:

At the risk of derailing the thread, I do think this is an issue of privilege. Most first-generation professors I know prefer to be addressed as a "Dr.", while those whose parents are professors almost always prefer to be called by their first name. I personally dislike being addressed as a "Dr." and always use my first name.

Me too, I think referring to me as a Dr. because of a PhD in political science is borderline ludicrous.  My dad didn't like it either and at least his doctorate is in physiology.  Growing up I always thought it was weird when I heard his colleagues refer to him (to others) as Dr.  Anyway, I don't know if it's a class based thing.  At least in my discipline virtually everybody insists on calling each other by the first name for even grad students.  With undergrads I do understand why many prefer to be called Mr. or Dr. by their students, but those who insist on Dr. are pretty eye-rolling, yes.

13 minutes ago, Ran said:

It seems a fairly convincing, nuts-and-bolts explanation that seems almost too easy, so I wonder where the real catch may be.

Looking at his bulletpoints in the article, they all look very clearly budgetary issues so there shouldn't be a problem putting them in a reconciliation bill there.  The only catch really is if they can unite their entire caucus.  If they have a slim majority in the Senate (which is very likely if they have a majority at all), then they're probably gonna have to deal with Manchin and even some other moderate Senators to get some of those bulletpoints through - and such compromises will likely water down their policy effect as well as endanger the bill to drag out long when Biden definitely does need to act immediately.  So, it's still a political calculation that can't really be approximated until after the election.

16 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Always be the last person in the room to talk to him if you want him to do your bidding.....

I dunno in this case.  Seems like his entire party and staff had to tell him his move was idiotic before he finally changed his mind.

4 minutes ago, Fez said:

What do we think? Has Pence now tested positive, Trump taken a turn for the worse, or something else?

Let the rampant speculation begin!  I'm gonna say Pence has pink eye.  Not as a symptom of covid, just pink eye.

[Fragile Bird]

As I hear these reports about the guys who were planning to overthrow the government of Michigan, I don’t understand what they thought they were going to do next. Set up their own country, the nation of Michigan? Did they think they would have Trump’s support? 

Is there some historic precedent where an armed group of men kicked out the elected state officials? They also planned to overthrow the police, somehow. They wanted to start a civil war in Michigan.

I wonder if these guys were part of the group that pushed their way into the state house.

And of course, Trump famously tweeted LIBERATE MICHIGAN! Kayleigh what’s-her-face attacked the governor for suggesting Trump stoked distrust and fomented anger. “He has always denounced white supremacy!” Lol!

And another member of the WH press corps had tested positive.

[Xray the Enforcer]

3 hours ago, Gertrude said:

Yeah. Why was this on your radar?

I'm a journalist and while I don't know her personally (I do follow her on Twitter tho) we have some overlapping professional circles.