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MCU: Phases? What Phases???


Rhom
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30 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Yeah, me neither. She was a fun character but I never would have thought to give her her own show. That and Echo are kinda puzzlers to me.

 

Was Echo planned before all of the Netflix stuff was officially under the Disney umbrella?  It may have been planned as an alternate to do Daredevil type stuff, but now he's back and they can add him to that show.  I'm sure I'm misremembering.  The actress who played Echo was great and I'm certainly interested in what they're going to do with her...

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Given the scale of returning 50% of the universe back, I think we can forgive Banner for not taking into account every possibility and permutation by only returning universe to 99.5% of original population. Well, 99.5% plus 5.5% population growth over five years. So Banner snapped to create 105% of previous population.

Let's not over think this. It is a comic book movie that made everyone just vanish with a snap of the fingers. It's overwhelming enough to explore that impact without digging up minutia hypothetical what ifs.

Wait. I forgot where I am. :P

Carry on.

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Dare say this is no surprise to anyone?

‘Bullying is a problem’: visual effects artists speak out against Marvel
The rise of VFX professionals discussing mistreatment at the hands of Marvel has led to increased calls for unionisation

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/aug/03/marvel-disney-visual-effects-artists-speak-out

Quote

 

For superfans it was a superfrenzy. After three long years, Comic-Con last month returned to full-attendance mode in San Diego and made up for lost time by unveiling a new slate of Marvel movies.

There were tantalising glimpses of Black Panther: Wakanda Forever, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3, Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania and two Avengers films for 2025: Avengers: The Kang Dynasty and Avengers: Secret Wars.

But while the Disney-owned multibillion-dollar franchise is the gift that keeps on giving for casts, crews and distributors, there is one vital team in the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) who appear to be faring less well: visual effects (VFX) artists.

First-hand accounts have recently erupted in media and social media casting Marvel in a deeply unflattering light as an employer: insatiable in its demands, impossible to please, overworking and underpaying the very staff who imbue its content with miracles and wonder

“Working on #Marvel shows is what pushed me to leave the VFX industry,” tweeted Dhruv Govil, a visual effects artist who contributed to movies including Guardians of the Galaxy and Spider-Man: Homecoming. “They’re a horrible client, and I’ve seen way too many colleagues break down after being overworked, while Marvel tightens the purse strings.”

Govil added: “The issue is #Marvel is too big, and can demand whatever they want. It’s a toxic relationship.”

Another visual effects artist, who wished to remain anonymous, told New York magazine’s Vulture website: “When I worked on one movie, it was almost six months of overtime every day. I was working seven days a week, averaging 64 hours a week on a good week. Marvel genuinely works you really hard. I’ve had co-workers sit next to me, break down and start crying. I’ve had people having anxiety attacks on the phone.” ....

 

 

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io9 have expanded on this as well.

https://gizmodo.com/disney-marvel-movies-vfx-industry-nightmare-1849385834

I think for both quality and working rights issues, they Marvel do need to pull back on their insane release schedule and pare it right down. When you have multiple actors on She-Hulk saying the support the vfx team unionising, something has gone wrong somewhere.

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40 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Maybe they could try cutting out the crappy last hour of every Marvel movie where crappy CGI monsters fight each other. It might actually make for better movies and less VFX artists will die.

Exactly. For a while every MCU film felt like it had a blue lazier. Now however, it feels like every MCU film needs an over the top CGI ending. I honestly think Black Widow and Shang-Chi, would have better films, without them.

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32 minutes ago, sifth said:

Exactly. For a while every MCU film felt like it had a blue lazier. Now however, it feels like every MCU film needs an over the top CGI ending. I honestly think Black Widow and Shang-Chi, would have better films, without them.

Winter Soldier is another example that absolutely didn't need a big CGI fest at the end given the rest of the movie.

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30 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Winter Soldier is another example that absolutely didn't need a big CGI fest at the end given the rest of the movie.

90% of Marvel movies and tv don't need that.  Why the fuck does Wandavision need that terrible last episode?  It was actually pretty good and interesting up till that.  But Fiege clearly wants that shit and so it is in every single thing and has been for what 25 movies and 6 tv shows?

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36 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Winter Soldier is another example that absolutely didn't need a big CGI fest at the end given the rest of the movie.

Agree. There was no need for it, though I don't think its a bad scene, pretty enjoyable. It's just that the best bits of that movie are the smaller fights, with more practical effects. 

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I didn't think the CGI in the Winter Soldier finale was too egregious.  Granted, the three super-helicarriers that were gonna take over the world was a very stupid plot device, but the actual final battle between Rodgers and Bucky didn't need/use too much CGI.  Also, their destruction (which was where we got most of the CGI) did serve as part of the rationale for the Sokovia Accords.

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1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

Winter Soldier is another example that absolutely didn't need a big CGI fest at the end given the rest of the movie.

I agree, the best scenes from the Winter Solider's climax were Cap fighting Bucky and Natasha and Fury stopping Pierce. That was honestly, all that was needed.

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56 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

6 tv shows?

 

In fairness, the finale of Loki was Jonathan Majors monologuing for half an hour and while there was a big CGI battle scene in Moon Knight, the most important climactic fight was hidden behind a blackout, which was an interesting choice. 

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57 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

90% of Marvel movies and tv don't need that.  Why the fuck does Wandavision need that terrible last episode?  It was actually pretty good and interesting up till that.  But Fiege clearly wants that shit and so it is in every single thing and has been for what 25 movies and 6 tv shows?

This is also very true. Wandavision was a great show on how depression and trauma can make a good person turn evil...................and then for no reason we got an over the top witch vs witch fight, with plenty of explosions and fireworks. I'm honestly starting to think Fiege doesn't know how to show restraint. 

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I feel like everyone is forgetting that these are movies that are based on superhero comic books.  Over the top action in the third act is pretty much a foregone conclusion.  Would you ask that a Fast and the Furious movie not have chase sequences with beautiful people (and Vin Diesel) doing over the top things.

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6 minutes ago, hauberk said:

I feel like everyone is forgetting that these are movies that are based on superhero comic books.  Over the top action in the third act is pretty much a foregone conclusion.  Would you ask that a Fast and the Furious movie not have chase sequences with beautiful people (and Vin Diesel) doing over the top things.

I mean I know it was done for budgetary reasons, but I believe each season of Dear Devil showed considerable restraint in its season finals. Same with season 1 of Loki; nearly the entire season final was hearing Majors talk and you know what, it's memorable. Not gonna lie, I talk more about that Loki season final, with my friends, than I do any of the others.

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12 minutes ago, hauberk said:

I feel like everyone is forgetting that these are movies that are based on superhero comic books.  Over the top action in the third act is pretty much a foregone conclusion.  Would you ask that a Fast and the Furious movie not have chase sequences with beautiful people (and Vin Diesel) doing over the top things.

It depends doesn’t it? There are clearly some movies where a big overblown CGI fest makes sense, and some where  you’d get more benefit doing something else.

I’d expect a huge battle at the end of Infinity War.. less so at the end of Wandavision. Civil War had a fight at the end but it was much more personal one based on conflict between two characters ( the airport fight was actually an example of a good fight as well)

Then something like Shang Chi, a movie that could have  demonstrated some incredible martial arts and physical action, telling a personal story, instead just did a big computer dragon weird shit. There are a lot of ways to make a movie exciting and push those adrenaline buttons that don’t just involve a big cartoony battle.

Edited by Heartofice
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4 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

It depends doesn’t it? There are clearly some movies where a big overblown CGI fest makes sense, and somewhere you’d get more benefit doing something else.

I’d expect a huge battle at the end of Infinity War.. less so at the end of Wandavision. Civil War had a fight at the end but it was much more personal one based on conflict between two characters ( the airport fight was actually an example of a good fight as well)

Then something like Shang Chi, a movie that could demonstrated some incredible martial arts and physical action, telling a personal story.  instead just did a big computer dragon weird shit. There are a lot of ways to make a movie exciting and push those adrenaline buttons that don’t just involve a big cartoony battle.

I think the problem is, these over the top CGI climaxes are happening so often, it's making them less special. I have no issue with them, when used with an over the top hero like Thor or Captain Marvel, or even in space with the GotG, but it feels unnatural for them to also happen in films about down to Earth heroes, like Shang Chi, Captain America and Black Widow. It's like the MCU is scared of trying to tell other types of stories, with the season final of Loki being the major exception.

Edited by sifth
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Just now, sifth said:

I think the problem is, these over the top CGI climaxes are happening so often, it's making them less special. I have no issue with them with an over the top hero like Thor or Captain Marvel, or even in space with the GotG, but it feels unnatural for them to also happen in films about down to Earth heroes, like Shang Chi, Captain America and Black Widow. It's like the MCU is scared of trying to tell other types of stories, with the season final of Loki being the major exception.

I agree, there is too many, I’d also argue many of them are just not very good. There is an art to making a good action scene and I don’t see that too often in those big battles 

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