Succession final season (spoilers)

[Gaston de Foix]

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

Yeah I thought she was younger than him. So he's just adding "boy" for misogony's sake. 

I understand the doubt on the issue, since I too assumed Roman was the youngest.  But apparently it's canon that Shiv is: 

https://www.nme.com/news/tv/how-old-are-roy-siblings-succession-3433959. 

I haven't watched the referenced video.  

[Hugorfonics]

Question.

There's only one India. Was Mattson doing something illegal? Shiv said no one will be looking into that for a while thanks to the election, but how long is a while? Kenny told Mattson also that half the sale is based off stock, if India TwoGate blows up can the Roys each individually lose their fortune?

Can Mattson stay CEO? Remain free?

[RumHam]

I'm no expert but I'd expect the penalty for that would be a fine, not jailtime. 

[Gaston de Foix]

26 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Question.

There's only one India. Was Mattson doing something illegal? Shiv said no one will be looking into that for a while thanks to the election, but how long is a while? Kenny told Mattson also that half the sale is based off stock, if India TwoGate blows up can the Roys each individually lose their fortune?

Can Mattson stay CEO? Remain free?

I think GoJo released the figures prior to the board meeting and its stock price remained (largely) unaffected otherwise that would have been a material adverse change. 

I think what Shiv meant were the legal repercussions of the misrepresentation rather than the market reaction which would have been immediate once the figures were released.   

One of my complaints with the compressed storytelling was that you are trading off verisimilitude for narrative tension and a tight focus on the interpersonal dynamics.  You could have had one more episode to show how the pieces played out for the Olds for example. 

We don't really get a clear answer as to why Frank goes from saying yes to Kendall's reverse-pillage strategy to voting for the deal (apart from making a fuckton of money and honoring Logan's wishes). 

[Hugorfonics]

6 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

I think GoJo released the figures prior to the board meeting and its stock price remained (largely) unaffected otherwise that would have been a material adverse change. 

I think what Shiv meant were the legal repercussions of the misrepresentation rather than the market reaction which would have been immediate once the figures were released.   

Ok cool. 

Yea but like, ATN stole the election and then the next day GoJo releases it's figures around the time of the funeral. Is the following day the sale? Id assume a lie as big as India would be like, idk, but your saying you don't think it'll drastically hurt the stock?

12 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

One of my complaints with the compressed storytelling was that you are trading off verisimilitude for narrative tension and a tight focus on the interpersonal dynamics.  You could have had one more episode to show how the pieces played out for the Olds for example. 

For sure, I get that. Itd be fun to see Ken spiral or Shiv talking in a high uncomfortable voice to Tom for a change or whatever Romans perversions get him into, but I kinda like the ambiguity too.

(I do think that Shivs betrayal was a little rushed although I kinda wish Rome got one more betrayal in too)

16 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

We don't really get a clear answer as to why Frank goes from saying yes to Kendall's reverse-pillage strategy to voting for the deal (apart from making a fuckton of money and honoring Logan's wishes). 

Well speaking of Roman betrayals, at the funeral Romulus hints to Frank that he's going to earn his namesake. So basically my takeaway from that scene was Frank does not want Rome anywhere near the throne. So like the hate for Rome is stronger then the love for Ken (plus making a fuckton of money and honoring Logans wishes (lol)

[Relic]

9 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Is the following day the sale?

I think a few days pass between episode 9 and 10.

[Gaston de Foix]

9 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Ok cool. 

Yea but like, ATN stole the election and then the next day GoJo releases it's figures around the time of the funeral. Is the following day the sale? Id assume a lie as big as India would be like, idk, but your saying you don't think it'll drastically hurt the stock?

Oh, I think it ought to, but this also one of those perspective things. 

Tech stocks don't get priced like normal equities (for reasons I've never really bought), and the fact that GoJo leadership is shitting itself doesn't reflect how sometimes the market just yawns or misses what is objectively alarming information. 

All these folks have a touch of pirate about them, jumping from one leaking vessel to another leaking vessel, or lashing two leaking vessels together in the hope that they'll float together. 

[Clueless Northman]

Thinking about it, it was interesting and a nice touch that, unlike previous board votes in which Stewy and Sandy were on the same side and voted the same way, this last time, though the Sandyis went for the money-making scheme, Stewy fully backed Kendall.

Ewan doing the same confirms him as a family man coupled with a "prefer the devil we know" tendency, as seen previously when, in Season 1, he backed his loathed brother instead of helping Ken to take over: even though the Roy kids would be as bad as Matsson, if not worse when it comes to the politics Waystar would promote, he still sides with the family.

[Zorral]

Not just despite being female, but because she is female, Shiv and her baby are the closest to Waystar now as Logan's direct, blood legacy.  Or something.  One can so easily postulate future scenarios with her, Tom's position,* and she raising a Baby Roy as opposed ton a Baby Wambsgams, particularly as she shivved both her bros, because they refused to even consider her to be #1. And, again, she has Logan's blood grandchild.

* My first impulse is always to call him Tom Scams.

[Aemon Stark]

Some interesting interpretations of the final scene with Tom and Shiv, namely about the hand gestures, namely as a reference to Jan Van Eyck’s Arnolfini Portrait.

 

[Derfel Cadarn]

9 hours ago, Zorral said:

Not just despite being female, but because she is female, Shiv and her baby are the closest to Waystar now as Logan's direct, blood legacy.  Or something.  One can so easily postulate future scenarios with her, Tom's position,* and she raising a Baby Roy as opposed ton a Baby Wambsgams, particularly as she shivved both her bros, because they refused to even consider her to be #1. And, again, she has Logan's blood grandchild.

* My first impulse is always to call him Tom Scams.

Logan has two(?) grandkids from Kendall, not that he showed much interest in them.

[Ran]

10 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Logan has two(?) grandkids from Kendall, not that he showed much interest in them.

Per Roman in the finale, Logan didn't consider either of them to be part of his bloodline: the daughter is adopted and the son appears to be the result of a sperm donor ("filing cabinet guy").

Not that it changes much, Logan had no interest in children as their own beings.

[Zorral]

9 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Logan has two(?) grandkids from Kendall, not that he showed much interest in them.

 But -- as Roman pointed out to Kendall, they are not bloodline grandchildren.  One adopted and one by sperm donor.

[Derfel Cadarn]

3 minutes ago, Zorral said:

 But -- as Roman pointed out to Kendall, they are not bloodline grandchildren.  One adopted and one by sperm donor.

I’d forgotten that.

[dbunting]

Not getting into a lot of details but I think Shiv made the right choice. This whole thing was a cooked up scheme by Kendall to retain power. The three were going to go their own way and he screwed that up, not her. They then said we will be co CEO's and you will have an equal say, but immediately cut her out once again.  They have the family dinner and swim and anoint Kendall as king and as soon as he gets in the chair, he puts his feet up and offers his buddy a board seat with out discussing it with them first.  None of them was worthy to be CEO.

To me Shiv got screwed the most in the family. IIRC she was in politics and relatively happy until her dad dangled the CEO job in front of her eyes. All he did was make her life hell after that.  Now she feels trapped and not in charge of here life. Her husband is CEO and she is pregnant, which she clearly didn't want. 

Kendall, eh screw you. He has the leadership abilities but is just f'd in the head.

Roman, I liked him but he is CLEARLY not meant to be in charge of anything.

Too funny how Tom, the seemingly dope and nothing but a kiss ass of the group ends up as puppet CEO basically because his wife tells Matteson that he is just a kiss ass.

Poor Greg. Man, Tom loves torturing him.

Last but not least Connor. It's as if the guy doesn't really exist and yet he is also seemingly the most well adjusted(the bar is set low). Delusional about his candidacy, but still.  I thought it was really telling when the video of the dinner was playing and the people there were all enjoying themselves and laughing and singing and none of the three stooges were there. They never got to have times like that with him but Connor, the outcast did.

 

[Relic]

5 hours ago, dbunting said:

They never got to have times like that with him but Connor, the outcast did.

 

Logan confided in Connor more than the other kids probably because Connor had no interest in being in the family business. Connor also knew about Logan's tomb, mentioned that their father sent him pictures of it in the past. The other 3 had zero idea. Logan didn't see Connor as a threat to his throne. I think its in season 1 that Ken tells Logan he's jealous of his kids, jealous of what he has given them. And that's why he hates them. 

[Relic]

Anyway, i miss this show. =( There's nothing even close to this level of writing out now (unless I'm missing something). 

[Slurktan]

12 hours ago, dbunting said:

Not getting into a lot of details but I think Shiv made the right choice. This whole thing was a cooked up scheme by Kendall to retain power. The three were going to go their own way and he screwed that up, not her. They then said we will be co CEO's and you will have an equal say, but immediately cut her out once again.  They have the family dinner and swim and anoint Kendall as king and as soon as he gets in the chair, he puts his feet up and offers his buddy a board seat with out discussing it with them first.  None of them was worthy to be CEO.

To me Shiv got screwed the most in the family. IIRC she was in politics and relatively happy until her dad dangled the CEO job in front of her eyes. All he did was make her life hell after that.  Now she feels trapped and not in charge of here life. Her husband is CEO and she is pregnant, which she clearly didn't want. 

 

Shiv got played yet again by playing on her hubris.  Shiv over and over seemed to think that because she was smart she should be gifted everything without putting in years of work etc.  I love the character but she is a clown.

[Cas Stark]

Even though Tom is/was a feckless kiss ass, he's also, of the Roy and Roy adjacent family members the only person with any claim to merit.  He was already a senior executive before he married Shiv,so presumably, he has some talent aside from being a lackey.  The actual Roy children, not so much.

[grozeng]

4 hours ago, Slurktan said:

Shiv got played yet again by playing on her hubris.  Shiv over and over seemed to think that because she was smart she should be gifted everything without putting in years of work etc.  I love the character but she is a clown.

But was Shiv smart?  To me she thought she was smart, but wasn't really actually smart.  She just had a very high opinion of herself.