Craving Peaches Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Relic said: 23 ambulances destroyed, 10 health facilities hit, and 15 medical workers killed since bombing began. I've seen a video of one of the ambulances supposedly being targeted, and it seems quite probable that it was hit deliberately. The footage is shaky and not entirely clear, but it appears the ambulance treating people was parked some distance away from buildings in a flat, grassy open area before it was struck. People run to the buildings at the end of the video. Not sure if I can share a link here though because it was an age-restricted video (some blood at the end). Edited October 14, 2023 by Craving Peaches dbergkvist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 1 minute ago, Craving Peaches said: I've seen a video of one of the ambulances supposedly being struck and it seems quite probable that it was hit deliberately. The footage is shaky and not entirely clear, but it appears the ambulance treating people was parked some distance away from buildings in a flat, grassy open area before it was struck. People run to the buildings at the end of the video. Not sure if I can share a link here though because it was an age-restricted video (some blood at the end). No doubt the excuse is that Hamas might be hiding under the ambulance. Craving Peaches and dbergkvist 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) Israel has said they are investigating the death of the Reuters journalist. Hopefully it was not a deliberate killing. Edited October 14, 2023 by Craving Peaches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Rorshach said: AFAIK it's a topic of discussion among historians whether the Madagascar plan was a serious plan that Germany was intent to follow, or if it was more an idea put forward that was loosely considered. However, it's been some 20 years since I did this topic, so it's possible consensus has changed since then. Everything points to it having been serious enough to spark official memoranda and planning, but as soon as reality sunk in after the Battle of Britain they quickly went to other things, culminating in the Wansee Conference in 1942. By the time the Magdagascar Plan and its variants became wide public knowledge, in particular in the US, the Nazis had already moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryk Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 As a supporter of Israel, their response has been horrific. The hairy bear and Many-Faced Votary 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 6 minutes ago, Darryk said: As a supporter of Israel, their response has been horrific. Same here. There are voices speaking up against it, though I am not sure how much this could have any impact on this Israeli government.  dbergkvist, Craving Peaches, Many-Faced Votary and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crixus Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 18 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: Show me where that's the explicit policy of the Israeli government. Again, not saying they don't do a lot of bad things, but where do they say they want every Palestinian to be removed and/or die? Because it's already been cited several times that's what Hamas wanted. Here in the US there were numerous protests by Palestinian groups celebrating the attacks. Do you see Jews celebrating the counter strikes in a similar way?  Yes, actually we do. Many Israelis have been posting revolting shit online, either mocking the current plight of Palestinians or outright saying they should all be killed. Just like the Israelis who get out nice little lawn chairs to watch the bombardments, and the ones who illegally occupy Palestinian villages and homes with impunity.  If you’re trying to imply one side is inherently worse or more evil than the other, that’s naive at best and utterly disingenuous at worst. Also, the Israeli government can’t exactly come out and officially claim they’d like to kill all Palestinians, but there sure as shit are several cunts in previous or current governments who seem to have no problem saying so, such as that ‘justice minister’ did a few years ago (linked in previous thread). And the government’s consistent actions that end up victimizing and killing Palestinians regularly - since decades - speak more eloquently than any statement would.  Oh, also Hamas are unequivocally evil and I wish the entire organization would be destroyed and every single member killed. I also hope certain cunts in the Israeli government and IDF get tried for war crimes.  Craving Peaches, cock_merchant, Many-Faced Votary and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) The Hamas commander who led last weekend's attack is reported to have been killed. A convoy of Palestinian refugees evacuating to southern Gaza along a pre-agreed safe route has been bombed by Israeli forces, with children killed. Jordan, one of the more moderate countries in the region and one of the closest Arab countries to Israel, has told the Israeli government their current actions regarding Gaza threaten to trigger a region-wide war, which has been echoed by Egypt as well. Edited October 14, 2023 by Werthead cock_merchant, Craving Peaches, Relic and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crixus Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 17 hours ago, Heartofice said: I highly doubt it. I doubt there were many Jewish  people holding up photos with pictures of dead people and celebrating ,pulling down posters of missing people or doing the equivalent of chanting ‘gas the Jews’ as been seen in the past few days.   https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing Doubt all you want but it’s been known to happen. Sure this is old, but I wouldn’t be shocked if similar shit is happening now. Claiming no Israelis would ever celebrate Palestinian deaths is absolute bullshit. cock_merchant, dbergkvist, Craving Peaches and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 26 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Same here. There are voices speaking up against it, though I am not sure how much this could have any impact on this Israeli government.  "The path to hell". The guy in this video is totally correct. kissdbyfire, Many-Faced Votary, cock_merchant and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) I don't really understand why people need to make sweeping claims about how one group or another would never do X or Y, or that all members of this or that group surely do X or Y. There are horrible people on all sides, all the time. It is generally irrelevant to determining on how to proceed in a conflict. Edited October 14, 2023 by Ran Many-Faced Votary, Crixus, Darryk and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 22 minutes ago, Crixus said: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing Doubt all you want but it’s been known to happen. Sure this is old, but I wouldn’t be shocked if similar shit is happening now. Claiming no Israelis would ever celebrate Palestinian deaths is absolute bullshit. Even then I don’t think this is even close to some of the disgusting behaviour we’ve seen lately. It’s not the same as holding up photos of dead civilians and laughing and cheering it, or chanting ‘gas the Jews’. On this, there really is a case where one side is much worse than the other. Jace, Extat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) I don't understand why Israel still won't let humanitarian aid through. It's ready to go on the Egyptian side, from what I've read. Edited October 14, 2023 by Craving Peaches dbergkvist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Heartofice said: Even then I don’t think this is even close to some of the disgusting behaviour we’ve seen lately. It’s not the same as holding up photos of dead civilians and laughing and cheering it, or chanting ‘gas the Jews’. On this, there really is a case where one side is much worse than the other. It is not a competition. What you're saying - obviously the Palestinians are worse - Is basically calling them animals. Language reasonable people have been condemning. People are people and we are all equally capable of being absolute pieces of shit. Many-Faced Votary, Relic, Crixus and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) The sentiment in India is broadly pro Israel. Hamas is generally viewed as a terrorist organisation and their attack really affirms that viewpoint. We’ve had our own terrorist attacks here so can definitely empathise with Israel. History is sketchy on who the territory even belongs to, If you go back to the time of Christ or even Pre-Roman, Jews lived in Jerusalem and the region for over 3000 years,  so it’s technically theirs as well. Edited October 14, 2023 by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 7 minutes ago, Gertrude said: It is not a competition. What you're saying - obviously the Palestinians are worse - Is basically calling them animals. Language reasonable people have been condemning. People are people and we are all equally capable of being absolute pieces of shit. It’s not a competition, but the reactions have been different and I haven’t seen the equivalent of the disgusting celebrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorn Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 10 hours ago, Rippounet said: If you want to be litteral, sure. Not sure it's much of a war if the overwhelming majority of casualties on both sides is civilian, and only one side has true military equipment though. I doubt Hamas has any ability to inflict more harm on Israel at this point. If the objective was to limit such ability on the future, I second the notion that focusing on its ability to recruit was paramount. A measured response would really have helped in so many ways... But the sheer destruction inflicted in less than a week seems objectively unconscionable to me. I don't see a "war," I don't see military objectives, just the deliberate infliction of tragedy in retaliation, a brutal reminder that for some time now Israel's driving policy has been to inflict more pain than it takes. I've always wanted to support Israel, always hoped it could find a way to be a project that could be respected and defended rather than feared. I'm heartbroken, because I don't see how it can ever be that, which means there is nothing left to believe in, and decades of conflict and countless deaths have been in vain. As far as I'm concerned, Hamas has achieved crushing victory. The military objective of the war for Israel is to overthrow Hamas as the government of Gaza. As long as they rule there, they have its entire population available as a recruitment pool which they can indoctrinate at will. And they still have ability to inflict harm on Israel, if not now, then a couple of years from now. They haven't lost anything so far that they cannot easily replenish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron the Daring Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 7 minutes ago, Gorn said: As long as they rule there, they have its entire population available as a recruitment pool which they can indoctrinate at will. The problem doesn't stop with the elimination of Hamas, though, does it? Will people stop being radicalised, if they continue to endure the same (or even worse) conditions they had been for the past decades? Many-Faced Votary, Crixus and Craving Peaches 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorn Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said: The problem doesn't stop with the elimination of Hamas, though, does it? Will people stop being radicalised, if they continue to endure the same (or even worse) conditions they had been for the past decades? True, but the problem is far worse if Hamas is in a position to conscript the entire male population of Gaza whenever they want. There are no good choices for Israel, only more and less bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 If true, this is very, very sad. The reason medical staff didn't want to evacuate the hospitals is because patients in intensive care couldn't be moved safely. Many-Faced Votary and dbergkvist 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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