Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 32 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said: Do you think the logic of violence being justified if it's for "the greater good", or whatever, is limited to the extreme ends of the political spectrum? Do you have an example of this that isn’t self defense, repelling an invasion, or retaking territory overrun by an invading army. For the Record… Likhud are extremists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Do you have an example of this that isn’t self defense, repelling an invasion, or retaking territory overrun by an invading army. For the Record… Likhud are extremists. Some obvious ones would be US involvement in Vietnam and Iraq. US's relationship with Saudi Arabia, all the times we've propped up dictators to secure cheaper access to natural resources. Buying goods made with labor that receives subsistance-level or lower compensation seems like another obvious example. Buying diamond engagement ring. All supported by mainstream politicians across the center portion of the political spectrum. It's bizarre to ignore this if the suffering of innocent people is the thing you have issue with. Lack of universal healthcare in the US leads to tens of thousands of preventable deaths a year because it's more important to have insurance company shareholders passively earn money. We have tens of thousands of deaths from guns each year because people all over the political spectrum would rather have the freedom to own guns than ban them outright. I'm not seeing the ends justifying the means being an argument or rationalization that is particularly unique to the extreme left or right. But I guess I'm a just a genocide apologist or whatever the fuck unfounded conclusions you've jumped to dictate, so what the hell do I know? Edited November 11, 2023 by Larry of the Lawn Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 (edited) Quote Do you have an example of this that isn’t self defense. Self-defense is a very slippery slope. A terror attack is an automatic blank check to go almost anywhere that won't set off a nuke exchange. Republicans I hear in the debates are openly discussing invading Mexico to go after drug dealers/smugglers. Self-defense, they're bring drugs here and harming Americans. (We can add Canada to this actually. Not a joke since an actual candidate was talking about building a wall between Canada I believe also over drug-related issues) Edited November 11, 2023 by Martell Spy Durckad and Larry of the Lawn 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted November 11, 2023 Author Share Posted November 11, 2023 All this talk about horseshoe theories makes me wonder if cops and criminals have more in common than they do with the people at the peak of the curve. Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 I do appreciate the tautological argument here. Only extremists support this! And if you have examples of non extremists like Likud or the US - those are extremists! I say kill all the extremists Tears of Lys and Ser Scot A Ellison 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, Fragile Bird said: You know what, for all of his failings, his approaching death changed him. And changed him for the good. He made his apologies, he begged for forgiveness, he recognized a spiritual vacuum in the soul of America and he prayed that future politicians would recognize the vacuum and try to change it. He was appalled at the things he did in the quest for political power It didn't change a damned thing about what he unleashed though, did it? So I say, feh. Never have been impressed with deathbed confession and absolution. Particularly if there isn't a provision in the will to build and orphanage or a hospital. Do whatever you like, but if you repent and confess at the moment of death all is good. Evangelicals have copied that one. Just say you didn't mean to do, you're sorry, and all good. And now let's do it again. Edited November 11, 2023 by Zorral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phylum of Alexandria Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 For the record, my original comment about Horseshoe theory was about anti-establishment sentiment in the social media era, not extremism per se. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 17 minutes ago, Kalbear said: I do appreciate the tautological argument here. Only extremists support this! And if you have examples of non extremists like Likud or the US - those are extremists! I say kill all the extremists Problem solved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Martell Spy said: Self-defense is a very slippery slope. A terror attack is an automatic blank check to go almost anywhere that won't set off a nuke exchange. Republicans I hear in the debates are openly discussing invading Mexico to go after drug dealers/smugglers. Self-defense, they're bring drugs here and harming Americans. (We can add Canada to this actually. Not a joke since an actual candidate was talking about building a wall between Canada I believe also over drug-related issues) Republicans advocating invading Northern Mexico to “take on the cartels”… are extremists. @Larry of the Lawn Which is tautological… I see the point… Edited November 11, 2023 by Ser Scot A Ellison Larry of the Lawn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkerX Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: All this talk about horseshoe theories makes me wonder if cops and criminals have more in common than they do with the people at the peak of the curve. On that note... Many years ago, I pulled a stint of grand jury duty - hearing cases to see if there was sufficient evidence to go to trial. One of the cases that stuck out was...'random aggravated assault with racial overtones.' Basically, a couple of Native Americans were walking along the side of a paved street when a car pulled over, two white guys jumped out, clobbered them good with shovels, then jumped back in the car and sped off. The officer showed up and asked all the usual questions - did anything stand out about the vehicle, did they know the attackers, could they even describe the attackers? From the testimony we heard, the answers were on the vague side. Still, the officer in question, apparently operating on these very vague responses and.... years of professional instinct? - apparently had a dang good idea who the attackers were from this, and those suspicions were confirmed when they went to the suspects house and the idiots basically confessed. Tears of Lys 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 13 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I saw that. I really wonder if that will be the last straw for the Republican Party in Ohio or if the majority who backed Issue 1 will just keep electing Republicans? One would think that GOP legislators would be wise enough to steer clear of an issue that a) gets Ohioans out to the polls; and b) on which they are on the wrong side, but, hey, they are Republicans. I seem to recall hearing that activists are angling to get a referendum on the ballot for 2024, one which would put the redistricting process in the hands of an independent commission, and out of the grasp of the legislature. Given that the last three referenda went left and not right, I have to wonder if we're going to see a fourth go the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 26 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said: I seem to recall hearing that activists are angling to get a referendum on the ballot for 2024, one which would put the redistricting process in the hands of an independent commission, Hasn’t that been done in one state? I wanna say Michigan, but not sure. I seem to recall reading about it, and that it was excellent for dems. But I may be confusing this w/ something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperHans Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 12 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: What? Are you really saying there are ends that justify murder of people who have nothing to do with the issue in question? Someone obviously hasn't been reading the Israel v Civilians thread. Or perhaps they have, and this is just another bullshit Western high horse case of Palestinian babies being viewed as Not Real People. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 45 minutes ago, SuperHans said: Someone obviously hasn't been reading the Israel v Civilians thread. Or perhaps they have, and this is just another bullshit Western high horse case of Palestinian babies being viewed as Not Real People. Like who the hell in the thread views Palestinian babies as not real people? What kind of jackass remark is that? Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 Apparently RFK Jr's 3rd party run could potentially have significant ramifications to the outcomes in multiple 2024 swing states. How RFK Jr. could change the outcome of the 2024 election https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/11/politics/robert-kennedy-rfk-2024-election-outcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 Biden campaign slams ‘extreme’ and ‘racist’ Trump immigration plans While Biden’s denouncement of Trump administration policies was central to his 2020 message, it’s not yet clear how often the president will talk about immigration this go-around. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/11/biden-campaign-slams-extreme-and-racist-trump-immigration-plans-00126712 Quote Trump has repeatedly hinted at these plans at political rallies, where he typically talks at length about the southern border. Stephen Miller, a senior aide who crafted many of Trump’s first-term policies, is once again heavily involved in the planning, according to the Times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 2 hours ago, SuperHans said: Someone obviously hasn't been reading the Israel v Civilians thread. Or perhaps they have, and this is just another bullshit Western high horse case of Palestinian babies being viewed as Not Real People. Pardon me? Palestinians are absolutely real people. Israeli’s are real people. Likhud turning a blind eye to Israeli settlers attacking Palestinians is absolutely unjustifiable and a war crime. Hamas attacking and murdering civilians at a music festival is absolutely a war crime. Yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 This is the US politics thread. Try to stick to topic, please. Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 11 hours ago, kissdbyfire said: Hasn’t that been done in one state? I wanna say Michigan, but not sure. I seem to recall reading about it, and that it was excellent for dems. But I may be confusing this w/ something else. Yes, there was a citizen led petition which required a certain number of signatures in order to be placed on a ballot. That happened in 2018 (Proposition 2) which passed with 61% of the vote; in 2021 the independent commission redistricted Michigan and in 2022 both state house and senate flipped into the Democrats hands. 2018 also saw recreational MJ legalized with about the same percentage approval so I'd say it was a solid year particularly in light of Trump's election. kissdbyfire 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 12 hours ago, Martell Spy said: Biden campaign slams ‘extreme’ and ‘racist’ Trump immigration plans While Biden’s denouncement of Trump administration policies was central to his 2020 message, it’s not yet clear how often the president will talk about immigration this go-around. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/11/biden-campaign-slams-extreme-and-racist-trump-immigration-plans-00126712 Saw similar article today Trump plots mass detention and deportation of undocumented immigrants should he regain power https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/11/politics/trump-stephen-miller-immigration-detention-deportation A Trump 2nd term would feature attempted Muslim country travel bans and mass detention centers for non white immigrants. You cant make this shit up. Martell Spy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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