Phylum of Alexandria Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Continue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phylum of Alexandria Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 @DireWolfSpirit, you said: Despite having said I would not vote for Biden, its probably more accurate for me to say I am not committed to voting at all. If the only choice is Biden or Trump its very unlikely I will vote at all. You've mentioned before that you tihnk Biden's not a strong candidate. At the time, it seemed like the reason was his age and energy level, which I can understand to some extent. Certainly in terms of campaigning, and maybe in terms of governing as well. But I personally think that Biden has done a good job as president, especially considering the small margin he had to work with in Congress. What is it about Biden that you find so repellent that you would not vote for him in a binary choice that includes Donald Trump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Come on! I had just typed a long reply to kalbear and then "poof", all gone! Jace, Extat and Phylum of Alexandria 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phylum of Alexandria Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said: Come on! I had just typed a long reply to kalbear and then "poof", all gone! Thankfully mine was not long! But, same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Both candidates are unlikely to survive the full term. If thats what both parties are foisting on the public, I'll pass. 7 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said: What is it about Biden that you find so repellent that you would not vote for him in a binary choice that includes Donald Trump? At a bare minimum for me to vote for anyone I would need to have the confidence that can live 4 more years, I dont have that confidence in Biden nor Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryk Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) @DireWolfSpirit Quote My patience for picking from the least worse option has severely waned, I may refrain from voting again till I see the candidate I prefer If I had a penny for every time I've heard someone say "I'm tired of voting for the least of two bad options", only for two bad options to be the only options again., I don't think this perfect candidate is ever going to come along. Edited January 16 by Darryk Prince of the North and LongRider 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phylum of Alexandria Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 2 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said: At a bare minimum for me to vote for anyone I would need to have the confidence that can live 4 more years, I dont have that confidence in Biden nor Trump. I've had a few friends my age who died suddenly. One during childbirth, a few due to cancer. Nothing is guaranteed. At the same time, healthcare is improving, and life expectancy is better than it ever has been. Unlike Trump, Biden actually takes care of himself. Given the magnitude of the stakes of this election, I sincerely hope that you reconsider your evaluation for something a bit more generous. TrackerNeil and drawkcabi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 12 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Come on! I had just typed a long reply to kalbear and then "poof", all gone! I win so many arguments that way Jace, Extat, Rippounet, fionwe1987 and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Quote My patience for picking from the least worse option has severely waned, I may refrain from voting again till I see the candidate I prefer @DireWolfSpirit Fine, but if you go Susan Sarandon, then I don't want to hear any complaints about policies enacted by a second Trump administration from you. You don't vote, you don't get to complain/protest. What really does my head in, is those people on the left, who identify as left leaning. Which pretty much involves being anti-fascist, anti-rascist etc., who then act like it's beneath them to vote against an actual fascist. And yes, the there's no difference between between a Hillary and Trump administration has allowed him to pick 3 of the supremes (two of those (RBG and the vacant Scalia seat) could've been filled by Democrats. Susan Saradoning. The dubest political choice in a two party system. hauberk, drawkcabi, HexMachina and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 9 minutes ago, Darryk said: I don't think this perfect candidate is ever going to come along. But people are not asking for a perfect candidate. They're just asking for somebody who is at least mildly inspiring and closer to the median age than to the median life expectancy age. Think about Obama's 2008 campaign; he was far from perfect and there were plenty of people who disliked him, but it was way more exciting than anything since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 14 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said: At a bare minimum for me to vote for anyone I would need to have the confidence that can live 4 more years, I dont have that confidence in Biden nor Trump. Why is that the bare minimum? If the VP is better than the President, then I could see dying in office being a good thing (just hypothetically, I'm not hoping Biden dies in office). Is there something about Harris that is unacceptable? She seems like a very mainstream democrat, and she is certainly qualified as a state AG, US Senator and now 4+ years as VP. I guess I don't see how you could say "there's only a 75% chance of Candidate B surviving the next 4 years, and therefore I cannot vote for him", as if when a President dies in office the country falls into leaderless anarchy. Phylum of Alexandria and HexMachina 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 13 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said: Both candidates are unlikely to survive the full term. If thats what both parties are foisting on the public, I'll pass. At a bare minimum for me to vote for anyone I would need to have the confidence that can live 4 more years, I dont have that confidence in Biden nor Trump. While certainly understandable, to an extent, this is a specious argument to voting for Biden in 2024. 1992? Sure. Even 2004? Probably. But in 2024, facing the choice of Biden vs. Trump (or any Republican candidate truth be told) it isn't even a choice. It isn't a choice because it isn't Biden one is voting for (regardless of what you think of his age or record, and I don't think his record is that bad at all myself). It doesn't matter if he doesn't make it the full second term, because one assumes his VP will be right there to carry on. Voting for anyone other than the Democratic candidate in 2024, or not voting at all, is all but a guarantee that you'll never get to do that again. BigFatCoward, LongRider, Phylum of Alexandria and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Quote That's fair, @kissdbyfire, but I think it's also one of the main reasons why there is such polar viewpoints and no way to differentiate. @Kalbear, let me try replying again... I agree wholeheartedly w/ the above. Quote There's a common viewpoint that the liberals look down on people and think they're stupid and hate them - and based on your viewpoint that appears to be entirely accurate. They can feel the contempt and they hear the jokes and they see the disdain. Well, if I'm honest, yes, I think this is accurate to a degree. For instance, I do think that people who take pride in their bigotry and hatred of others, who allow themselves to be convinced that education, time off for new parents, and free universal healthcare are EVIL COMMUNISM!!! are incredibly stupid because no matter the reason behind it, they were talked into supporting things that go directly against their interests and that are actually harmful to them and/or make their lives harder/worse. I don’t hate them, though I do feel sorry for them. Quote What do you think they do with that? They align with someone who doesn't have that disdain for them. No, they align themselves w/ someone like trump, who despises them even more but pretends to care. And again, these idiots are supporting things that are not good for them. Like chopping off their noses to spite their faces, and it's especially stupid given the contempt and disdain Trump feels for them. Quote My point is that if your political party is largely based on high ideas and is going to treat idiots as not worth their time, is it any surprise that said party is not doing super well? No surprise at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Just now, Altherion said: But people are not asking for a perfect candidate. They're just asking for somebody who is at least mildly inspiring and closer to the median age than to the median life expectancy age. Think about Obama's 2008 campaign; he was far from perfect and there were plenty of people who disliked him, but it was way more exciting than anything since. I hear what you're saying, but if your bar for "good enough" as a Democrat is Obama '08, you should prepare for a LOT of disappointment. He was the best democratic candidate since...FDR's second term? kissdbyfire, Prince of the North, butterbumps! and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phylum of Alexandria Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 1 minute ago, Altherion said: But people are not asking for a perfect candidate. They're just asking for somebody who is at least mildly inspiring and closer to the median age than to the median life expectancy age. Think about Obama's 2008 campaign; he was far from perfect and there were plenty of people who disliked him, but it was way more exciting than anything since. Sure, it'd be great to have another charismatic candidate to inspire and energize. But to not vote because that lack? To give power to the fascists, simply because Biden is old? I just cannot comprehend it. hauberk and LongRider 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said: Both candidates are unlikely to survive the full term. If thats what both parties are foisting on the public, I'll pass. At a bare minimum for me to vote for anyone I would need to have the confidence that can live 4 more years, I dont have that confidence in Biden nor Trump. They have VP. Well, at least Biden will. The other guy? Nah. So it will be a free for all when he croaks* -- if your scenario comes to pass. No matter what voting FOR a Democrat has significance that is positive, while not voting at all is a copout. It would be far more meaningful to go after his advisors like Steve Bannon, etc., who ply him with Hitler's mein kampf rhetoric and concepts/ * As he with all his toxic living habits hasn't croaked yet I see no reason to expect him to for another 20 years at least. These guys get all the best: Murdoch, Kissinger, etc. They don't die. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I think since 2016 we've graduated beyond "lesser of two evils" territory and are now, more than ever, in the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" realm. If you don't see that the Republican party of 2024 is THE enemy right now, for whatever reason, you are risking the hurt and suffering of a lot of people on that notion. Phylum of Alexandria, Ser Reptitious, Jace, Extat and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) I still think the most cutting statement to make is that if you believe that you cannot personally vote for either candidate that means that you are not the one that is going to be hurt and you are entirely comfortable with the ones who are because of the outcome. Doing nothing is a choice, and it is usually to the benefit of the oppressors. If it doesn't hurt you, ask who it will. Edited January 17 by Kalbear wiedzma, drawkcabi, Jaxom 1974 and 6 others 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Really, what was the point of a 'debate' anyway? ABC News cancels New Hampshire Republican primary debate - ABC News (go.com) ABC News and WMUR are canceling their planned Republican primary debate in New Hampshire on Thursday, citing a lack of candidate participation. "Our intent was to host a debate coming out of the Iowa caucuses, but we always knew that would be contingent on the candidates and the outcome of the race," an ABC News spokesperson said in a statement. .... The decision comes shortly after a deadline set by ABC News and New Hampshire TV station WMUR for both former President Donald Trump and former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley to respond to their invitations to the debate by Tuesday afternoon. Neither campaign confirmed they would attend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 7 hours ago, Altherion said: But people are not asking for a perfect candidate. They're just asking for somebody who is at least mildly inspiring and closer to the median age than to the median life expectancy age. Think about Obama's 2008 campaign; he was far from perfect and there were plenty of people who disliked him, but it was way more exciting than anything since. Yes, do let's court the possibility of an eminently corrupt proto-fascist becoming president because Joe Biden doesn't properly inspire us. Honestly, the experience of Donald Trump the politician has made clear to me why nobody on Krypton heeded the obvious signs that their planet was about to crack in two. Edited January 17 by TrackerNeil Phylum of Alexandria, A Horse Named Stranger, Ser Reptitious and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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