US Politics: Primary Schoolin'

[Kalbear]

To be a little less flippant the story of Chile may be illustrative:

https://www.npr.org/2013/02/15/172040656/the-story-of-no-is-the-story-of-modern-chile

That said I don't think it's very applicable - Chile was not nearly as rich as the US and would be seriously impacted by external pressure, and Pinochet made the mistake of actually asking 'hey, do you want me' without rigging the results - something that is pretty insane to think would happen in the US under more authoritarian rule. 

[Phylum of Alexandria]

4 hours ago, Kalbear said:

That said I don't think it's very applicable

That's the catch with predicting US's predicament: there aren't many close analogues. Maybe Berlusconi's Forza Italia? If so, that's not great news either. But I'd be okay with beating back the movement and disempowering them for some time. Not my first choice, but I'll take it.

[karaddin]

I think the safest assumption regarding the numbers that will turn out for Trump is that everyone who voted for him in 2020 will do so again in 2024. Biden/The Dems already showed the answer to that which is beat that number. They had already seen more than enough to know who he was at that point, so if they liked that then I think it's reasonable to assume they still like it. Any strategy or assumptions around his turn out being lower is building on a foundation you can't control.

So despite my cynicism about the whole thing, and not being super enthusiastic about Biden... Get out there and vote is indeed the answer.

14 hours ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

First cousin marriage (as well as sexual relations) is legal in many liberal states including California and Massachusetts. Not sure this is something to cudgel Kentucky with

I thought that proposal was to do more than remove criminal penalties for first cousins, it also reduced or removed criminal penalties for incest unless the victim is under 12. Which is to say it's fucked up, not something for other states to laugh at this one over.

[Martell Spy]

‘We’re sucking wind’: McHenry slams Johnson’s work as speaker
“He needs to widen the group of advisers he has. The loudest members of our conference should not dictate the strategic course of a smart majority,” Patrick McHenry said.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/01/18/mchenry-johnson-speaker-00136468

Quote

 

McHenry, who served as acting speaker after McCarthy was voted out last year, specifically cited Johnson‘s decision to split government funding bills into two packages and advance stopgap spending legislation.

That was “an active choice to extend the pain and create suffering,” McHenry said. “By us not executing the deal in December, we’ve cost the Defense Department four and a half billion dollars a month — out of an active choice by House Republicans. I think it’s a faulty choice. I think it’s a bad choice.”

There is no point in pushing the votes down the road, he said, because “the votes are going to be the same.”

“To draw out the calendar doesn’t actually help produce political wins, and it’s not actually shown to create policy wins,” McHenry said. “I’m here for policy wins.”

He said Johnson needs to accept that “Republicans control one-third of the negotiations,” so “we’re going to not get 100 percent of the wins.”

Continuing down this path could eventually cost Republicans the majority, McHenry said.

“If we keep extending the pain, creating more suffering, we will pay the price at the ballot box,” he said. “At this point, we’re sucking wind because we can’t get past the main object in the road. ... We need to get the hell out of the way. Cut the best deals we can get and then get on with the political year.”

 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Sometimes you just have to shake your head:

Quote

An Oklahoma lawmaker is facing backlash for proposing a discriminatory bill that deems people of Hispanic descent as “terrorists”.

The Republican state representative JJ Humphrey introduced the bill, HB 3133, which seeks to combat problems in the state, such as drug and human trafficking, and lay out punishments to those who have committed these “acts of terrorism”.
 

The punishment for such a crime would be forfeiting all assets, including any and all property, vehicles and money.

In addition to “a member of a criminal street gang” and someone who “has been convicted of a gang-related offense”, the bill defines a terrorist as “any person who is of Hispanic descent living within the state of Oklahoma”.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/18/oklahoma-bill-labels-hispanic-people-terrorists

Congrats Haley for saying the US has never been racist. 

[Wilbur]

25 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

Sometimes you just have to shake your head:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/18/oklahoma-bill-labels-hispanic-people-terrorists

Congrats Haley for saying the US has never been racist. 

Wow, that's even dumber than the Kentucky cousin-lover a couple pages back.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

23 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Wow, that's even dumber than the Kentucky cousin-lover a couple pages back.

I can only laugh given one of my step-brothers is Latino and was stationed in Oklahoma for a year or two. Nice to know a combat vet who did multiple tours could be labeled a terrorist. So fucking dumb.

What's up next on the idiotic Republican bingo card? You can marry your sister or five year olds can purchase guns? 

[IheartIheartTesla]

8 hours ago, karaddin said:

I thought that proposal was to do more than remove criminal penalties for first cousins, it also reduced or removed criminal penalties for incest unless the victim is under 12. Which is to say it's fucked up, not something for other states to laugh at this one over.

I didnt pay attention to the bill itself (the latter of what you describe is indeed effed up) and was just responding to the discussion here. It was just an interesting extension of the prior discussion where we believe the worst of our political opponents and buy into stereotypes about them, when some dont have basis in fact.

[hauberk]

1 minute ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

I didnt pay attention to the bill itself (the latter of what you describe is indeed effed up) and was just responding to the discussion here. It was just an interesting extension of the prior discussion where we believe the worst of our political opponents and buy into stereotypes about them, when some dont have basis in fact.

There was a follow up article about this bill that made it seem that it was a genuine mistake and that he was actually attempting to address a serious issue in Kentucky.  I could be giving way too much credit but it read as sincere. 

[sologdin]

What I dont understand is why Democratic strategists go through the historical archives to see how to tackle these fascist tactics.

what is truly amazing is that the tactics have been well understood for many decades.  at the level of street demagoguery, leo lowenthal's prophets of deceit works through the basic rhetorical technique from the early 20th century. (my thorough comments here.)

adorni's jargon of authenticity handles the highbrow philosophy. (comments.)

neumann's behemoth tracks the actual practice of right populism after its elevation. (my notes.)

and to round out the frankfurt tour of fascism, maybe horkheimer's eclipse of reason to really tie the room together. (notes.)

the truly ambitious might take on adorno's authoritarian personality, a study of the psychological type that enlists in rightwing populism.

[karaddin]

1 hour ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

I didnt pay attention to the bill itself (the latter of what you describe is indeed effed up) and was just responding to the discussion here. It was just an interesting extension of the prior discussion where we believe the worst of our political opponents and buy into stereotypes about them, when some dont have basis in fact.

Sorry - was using your post as a springboard rather than meaning to reply to you specifically.

[Phylum of Alexandria]

23 hours ago, sologdin said:

Which is why we need all the votes we can get, people!

more a matter of triage.  those domiciled in irredeemable shithole states might feel at liberty to vote in accordance with pure principle, whereas the recommendation to voters in plausibly contestable states would be to cleave to tactical considerations. 

Point taken, though I think it's better not to get too clever for our own good.

I think of voting like neuronal activity. If you're thinking about tactical considerations for your one vote, well, then your one vote is only as meaningful as the action potential of a single, isolated neuron. As in: not very.

But if you're really motivated to work toward an outcome, you'll not just vote but get your friends to go vote, to do phone banking or house visits and get out the vote. Donate, etc. etc. In that case, you're helping contribute to the larger synchronized waves of activity across brain regions that make up the electrical potentials that enable most behavior and cognition. And that can have real power.

Edited January 19 by Phylum of Alexandria

[Reny of Storms End]

16 hours ago, karaddin said:

I thought that proposal was to do more than remove criminal penalties for first cousins, it also reduced or removed criminal penalties for incest unless the victim is under 12. Which is to say it's fucked up, not something for other states to laugh at this one over.

I think the bill actually makes touching or groping of minors also an incest crime, and increases the criminal penalties of that if the victim is under 12. It sounds like, from what I read after seeing the tweet in this thread, it was a genuine drafting error. It doesn’t change any of the current felony classes for any charge of incest, and makes sexual groping of someone under 12 a higher class felony.

[ThinkerX]

House Republicans appear poised to sabotage a border deal they pushed for because it would give Biden a win.

 

The GOP's political dilemma on immigration grows - The Washington Post

[Fragile Bird]

God bless!

[Altherion]

The S&P 500 index has closed at a new all-time high for the first time in more than 2 years. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like the positive sentiments of investors are shared by the vast majority of the population.

[sologdin]

t doesn't seem like the positive sentiments of investors are shared by the vast majority of the population.

it does mince the trump cultist contention that biden's policies are bad for investors, though i understand the thesis now is that increasing values for securities simply "makes rich people richer," a bad thing when it happens under an opponent, as described here. standard right populism, right out of lowenthal: somehow the communists in the adminstration are simultaneously plutocrats.

Edited January 20 by sologdin

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

6 minutes ago, sologdin said:

somehow the communists in the adminstration are simultaneously plutocrats

The “communism” most Trumpanistas rale against is Soviet style… there were plenty of plutocrats in the Soviet Union.

[Durckad]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

The “communism” most Trumpanistas rale against is Soviet style… there were plenty of plutocrats in the Soviet Union.

The "communism" most Trumpists rale against is entirely a creation of their swamp-addled brains, neither internally or externally consistent with itself or... anything. It's simply a buzzword to be used because of its negative historical connotations. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

10 minutes ago, Durckad said:

The "communism" most Trumpists rale against is entirely a creation of their swamp-addled brains, neither internally or externally consistent with itself or... anything. It's simply a buzzword to be used because of its negative historical connotations. 

I appreciate that.  Yet, when Trumpanistas think about “communism” what they will point to if they care to provide some kind of historical basis… is the Soviet Union.