International Events : How I learnt to stop worrying and love the-

[TheLastWolf]

23 minutes ago, The Big Stink said:

What's awful about this is how many of these people were alive on October 8...and how little was done to save them...and I don't just mean by Israel...I mean by the international community, which instead of doing everything possible to save human life...basically backed Hamas...either directly or indirectly. NOT ONE INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION worked hard to get access to the hostages. It's a fact that the international community saw 250 people kidnapped by a brutal extremist organization...and instead of condemning it and making sure the people were released did NOTHING. 

We all know one phone call from the White House could have gotten all the hostages released on October 8.

 

bombaclat

Spoiler

i love this word

 

[The Grey Wolf Strikes Back]

3 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

I'd rather they received fire and brimstone here

That would actually be better for them, not worse but the impulse is certainly understandable.

[Bironic]

19 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Who would they call, and what would they say?

Maybe the international extremist hotline? but then you would probably go directly to voicemail, since the guys operating it are busy  at fucking up the world 24/7... #sarcasm

2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

That's like saying the American revolution was reform. Or demolition of a derelict building to build a new, useful building is just remodelling.

The American revolution was (at least partially) violent and a war.. there's no need to fight a war or make a violent Anti-UN revolution... it can be reformed by peaceful means as well...

2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The existence of the veto is one of the exact reasons the UN can't be reformed. Veto has to get gone, and in will never happen in the UN, which you have so eloquently stated. The UN is no longer fit for purpose.

The reason why Veto exists in the UNSC was because in the previous iteration, the League of Nation council, the countries that were part of a conflict did not have the right to vote and thus no Veto power and the only thing that achieved was that all the countries that had a ruling against them (Germany, Italy, Japan, USSR) simply left the League of Nations robbing it of its function as a forum where you can meet, discuss and negotiate peacefully with everyone. And leaving it with little to no international power, legitimacy or usefulness. If you would abolish the current veto power now, China and Russia would simply build their own Anti-UN (where they would have Veto power), which would basically end the UN as an international forum for peaceful negotiations and diplomacy. And no diplomacy is always worse and more risky than having diplomatic channels open even when a lot of conflicts are blocked because of the power of veto.

The idea of reform of the UN is basically more levied towards making veto less powerful (there are multiple ideas in various directions that I won't explain in detail here since that would take up too much space) and not by completely abolishing it.

Do I think that this is very likely to happen? No... but times change. Putin, Xi Jinping, Donald Trump etc. are all mortal men and there is the chance that they will be replaced by people that are more open to reform. When the UN was created Stalin was the head of the USSR, 40 years later it was Gorbachev... The opposite is also possible, that they will be replaced by even crazier people, but then we might edge towards your solution, meaning that we will see a WW3/violent revolution and however that ends the UN in it's current form will most likely not survive it.

2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I don't think I suggested the UN should be disappeared without a new global governance structure replacing it. So I agree the UN needs to limp along on its crutches until the world wakes up. Which might only be after a real disaster of global proportions.

Agreed

[JGP]

1 hour ago, The Big Stink said:

What's awful about this is how many of these people were alive on October 8...and how little was done to save them...and I don't just mean by Israel...I mean by the international community, which instead of doing everything possible to save human life...basically backed Hamas...either directly or indirectly. NOT ONE INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION worked hard to get access to the hostages. It's a fact that the international community saw 250 people kidnapped by a brutal extremist organization...and instead of condemning it and making sure the people were released did NOTHING. 

We all know one phone call from the White House could have gotten all the hostages released on October 8.

 

Wat

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

This is delusional, start to finish. I won't even pick each absurd claim apart b/c life's too short. 

 

I will say though, Netanyahu & cronies have done fuck all to back up their own claims that rescuing the hostages was their top priority. 

Speak for yourself. Btw, how on earth have you reached that conclusion? 

He just cut and pasted that passage from elsewhere without attribution, that's how.  He likely didn't read it through, so didn't understand it was packed with assertions constructed from idiocy.

The Israeli gummit did nothing to get back the hostages -- they preferred murdering thousand and thousands of women and children, pretending it was all about keeping Israel safe.

In fact they preferred to ignore all the warnings issued by those within the Biden administration that an attack was imminent.  Which then the attack provided the cover to murder Palestinians.  Though not to rescue hostages.  Or even, it looks like, hardly kill any Hamas.

~~~~~~~~~

In the meantime we have this:

Mohammad Rasoulof Sentenced To Eight Years In Prison, Flogging & Confiscation Of Property, Says Lawyer

https://deadline.com/2024/05/mohammad-rasoulof-sentenced-to-eight-years-prison-flogging-confiscation-1235908664/

Still, in the history of the world, or at least the 'western' world flogging was rife at least through most of the 19th C and even into the earlier years of the 20th.  In the US, this went on even later in the southern states.

Edited May 8 by Zorral

[Mudguard]

4 minutes ago, Zorral said:

He just cut and pasted that passage from elsewhere without attribution, that's how.  He likely didn't read it through, so didn't understand it was packed with assertions constructed from idiocy.

Good catch.  I should have realized that from the background color behind the text in his post that it was a cut and paste job.  I assume he's just a troll, so didn't bother engaging.

[DMC]

7 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Technically in the general assembly there is equality, since each country has one vote.

This is the same type of “equality” we have in the US Senate.  TBC I don’t have a problem with it in the UN, but couldn’t help point out - not the greatest comparison!

[Zorral]

Israel continues blocking all aid and assistance attempting to enter Gaza.

Latest reports state NOTHING is getting in for the famine-wracked Palestinians.

 

[Padraig]

4 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

So I agree the UN needs to limp along on its crutches until the world wakes up. Which might only be after a real disaster of global proportions.

Sure.  If you want to start from a "major global disaster" then yes, the UN could end up been replaced by something very different.   Otherwise, the UN is far more likely to be reformed than replaced.  Not that either is particularly likely in the foreseeable future.

Limping along on crutches is far better than being in a coma, which is what I was responding to.  I agree with Bironic's thoughts on the UN.  A very flawed (i.e. on crutches) organisation but still useful.

 

[Spockydog]

Piers Morgan remembering he used to be a journalist.

 

 

[Spockydog]

In more "peaceful protest doesn't work" news:

Trinity College Dublin agrees to divest from Israeli firms after student protest

Quote

 

Students at Trinity College Dublin have ended a five-day encampment after the university pledged to cut ties with Israeli companies.

Student leaders claimed victory on Wednesday night for a US-style campaign that had disrupted the campus and blocked access to the Book of Kells.

Senior management made a deal with protesters, the university said in a statement. “Trinity will complete a divestment from investments in Israeli companies that have activities in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and appear on the UN blacklist,” it said. “Trinity will endeavour to divest from investments in other Israeli companies.”

 

 

[The Big Stink]

21 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Who would they call, and what would they say?

The United Nations, the PLO, the UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey. 

 

All they would have to do was say that the events of October 7 were unacceptable and that the perpetrators of Hamas need to be brought to justice.

 

It is the gesture that counts.

[The Big Stink]

21 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

This is delusional, start to finish. I won't even pick each absurd claim apart b/c life's too short. 

 

I will say though, Netanyahu & cronies have done fuck all to back up their own claims that rescuing the hostages was their top priority. 

Speak for yourself. Btw, how on earth have you reached that conclusion? 

Netanyahu gains more power if the USA doesn't at least say the events of October 7 are unacceptable and Hamas needs to be brought to justice. It is good PR. Bullies and fanatics achieve success when the neutral arbiters do not take symbolic decisive action.

[The Big Stink]

21 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I agree with @kissedbyfire you cannot know this.  What do you base that assertion upon?

If it was heavily implied that the USA would not do anything, and might aid, Israel in a reprisal, the Palestinians would have deposed Hamas and given the hostages back in an act of goodwill.

[DanteGabriel]

1 minute ago, The Big Stink said:

The United Nations, the PLO, the UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey. 

 

All they would have to do was say that the events of October 7 were unacceptable and that the perpetrators of Hamas need to be brought to justice.

 

It is the gesture that counts.

Gosh, that sounds like more than one phone call, and all of it would be about as effective as a wet fart.

"It's the gesture that counts" when trying to untangle the Israel-Palestine blood feud is either hopelessly naive or thunderously dumb.

[kissdbyfire]

And please elaborate on what you think would be an action that is both symbolic and decisive. 

[Maithanet]

11 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Gosh, that sounds like more than one phone call

Must be a conference call. 

"Hello, the United Nations?  Please hold."

[kissdbyfire]

According to All in with Chris Hayes last night, the main sticking point regarding the ceasefire deal is that Israel wants Rafah out of the deal, meaning, ceasefire everywhere but Rafah. 
 

[Crixus]

41 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

And please elaborate on what you think would be an action that is both symbolic and decisive. 

They're implying the US has not done anything to help Israel, which... says it all, really. As for the rest of it, no comment 

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Gosh, that sounds like more than one phone call, and all of it would be about as effective as a wet fart.

"It's the gesture that counts" when trying to untangle the Israel-Palestine blood feud is either hopelessly naive or thunderously dumb.

He's trolling and thinking we are stupidly buying his dumstuff as good faith posting. Stop allowing in the stink of garbage.    

Edited May 9 by Zorral