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Angel Eyes

How should Robb have gotten his sisters back?

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You're Robb Stark at the end of AGOT, newly minted King in the North. This thread focuses on a single objective, which Robb seemed to have lost sight of: How should he have gotten his sisters back? Carved a path to King's Landing like Darth Vader in Rogue One? Sent soldiers into King's Landing to get them out? Offered alliances to the other claimants for Sansa's hand if they help him?

Edited by Angel Eyes

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The easiest way was to trade jamie.

otherwise I think robb would need to defeat them in battle.

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Keep winning. 

Jaime is probably too valuable to trade for Sansa.  By the way, the Lannisters don't have Arya, so couldn't trade her if they wanted to, a fact which would eventually become apparent.

Eventually, if he is sufficiently successful, something might be worked out.

Not declaring yourself King in the North would likely help, as it would probably enable you to get allies such as Stannis or Renly, making winning easier.

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Do what Baelish did but sooner? Did Robb have no one try to infiltrate King's Landing to at least see what was going on in the city? I mean couldn't he have gotten some hedge knight from the Riverlands to pose as a fisherman/butcher/laborer to get the gossip that was floating around Flea Bottom? Perhaps if he had he'd have been able to send some men into the Capitol while Stannis was attacking to try and rescue Sansa and Arya.

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13 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

You're Robb Stark at the end of AGOT, newly minted King in the North. This thread focuses on a single objective, which Robb seemed to have lost sight of: How should he have gotten his sisters back? Carved a path to King's Landing like Darth Vader in Rogue One? Sent soldiers into King's Landing to get them out? Offered alliances to the other claimants for Sansa's hand if they help him?

His primary objectives were, first, to rescue his father and then secondly to avenge his father's death. Getting his sisters back was a high priority, but not higher than preserving the honor of his house. If Sansa and Arya were his top considerations, then it would have been a no-brainer: trade them for Jaime. They are not, however, because such a trade would make House Stark look weak.

It's the same calculation that Tywin used to invade the riverlands. Sure, getting Tyrion back safe and sound would have been nice, but not if it dishonors House Lannister in any way. And if he dies, that's OK as long as house honor is maintained.

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Robb loved his family - but the way things worked out, he abandoned his sisters and his brothers. He even sent Cat away. Basically he made himself a lone wolf, and he died. Destiny rules.

I don't what else he could have or should have done. Getting Sansa out of KL involved a lot of plotting and conspirators and secret passages, all of which is outside Robb's scope. I suppose he might have done something like Tyrion's capture of Tommen, but he'd have to wait for Sansa to be taken outside the city.

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14 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

You're Robb Stark at the end of AGOT, newly minted King in the North. This thread focuses on a single objective, which Robb seemed to have lost sight of: How should he have gotten his sisters back? Carved a path to King's Landing like Darth Vader in Rogue One? Sent soldiers into King's Landing to get them out? Offered alliances to the other claimants for Sansa's hand if they help him?

Ignoring the fact the he was wrong to rebel in the first place, Robb should focus on winning.  His sisters are the price his house is willing to pay to win independence for the north and make him king.  If he's not willing to do that, he should tuck his tail and kneel to get them back.

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1 hour ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Ignoring the fact the he was wrong to rebel in the first place, Robb should focus on winning.  His sisters are the price his house is willing to pay to win independence for the north and make him king.  If he's not willing to do that, he should tuck his tail and kneel to get them back

He was not wrong to rebel.  He did not initially start out with that intention nor was independence his desire.  He was called to KL to swear fealty to Joff and he decided to take some protection. 

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Really, if he hadn't stuck his breadstick in Jeyne Westerling's mashed potatoes, he was on the verge of victory.  He had a good plan, but I can see two solid mistakes:

1.  Not informing Edmure of his plans to lure Tywin west.  Edmure was Lord Paramount of the Trident, and Robb passed him over to give the Blackfish that "Warden of the Southern Marshes" title.  Cat seemed to have passed her resentment of Edmure on to Robb, and Edmure's greatest accomplishment was marred by Robb's disapproval.  Robb, like Cat, didn't trust Edmure, and that mistrust lead to Tywin saving King's Landing from being sacked by Stannis.  Robb never knew who to trust, and always got it wrong.

2.  Marry the Frey girl.  Immediately.  Ned didn't marry for love, he did it for duty, and he performed his duties.  Married Cat, knocked her up, rode to war having fathered an heir.  I still don't know why Robb didn't marry a Frey girl the day the pact was made. It wasn't like they shook hands and sprinted off.  Robb and the other Northern lords spent the night at the Twins, that was enough time to get it done.

All he had to do was stick to the plan.

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3 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Ignoring the fact the he was wrong to rebel in the first place, Robb should focus on winning.  His sisters are the price his house is willing to pay to win independence for the north and make him king.  If he's not willing to do that, he should tuck his tail and kneel to get them back

I think this too. But then he would have had the problem of appearing weak to the Northern Lords.

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17 hours ago, LindsayLohan said:

 

1.  Not informing Edmure of his plans to lure Tywin west.  Edmure was Lord Paramount of the Trident, and Robb passed him over to give the Blackfish that "Warden of the Southern Marshes" title. 

 

I don't see the Warden of the Southern Marches as a pass over of Edmure instead of a understanding that Blackfish is one of the most experienced military leaders in Westeroes , if there is anybody who can hold the Riverlands while Robb secures the North it's Blackfish. Making Blackfish Warden of the Southern Marches makes it very clear that he is in charge in the Riverlands and there will be no confusion on who's making the military decisions which is critical if they are to be fighting the Lannisters and Tyrells . .

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Robb had Jaime, he was a threat and he proved he could win. Instead of declaring himself king he was in a perfect position to negotiate with Tywin for peace on his terms given the threat of Stannis and Renly. 

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On 12/7/2018 at 4:33 PM, John Suburbs said:

Getting his sisters back was a high priority, but not higher than preserving the honor of his house.

I really never felt that it was, though. As you say rescuing Ned/ avenging Ned /carving out his kingdom were much higher priorities for him. Robb also never understood how Sansa, if he got her back,  could have been used to secure a valuable alliance - until penultimate Cat's chapter or so, IIRC, when it finally dawned on him.

On 12/7/2018 at 4:33 PM, John Suburbs said:

If Sansa and Arya were his top considerations, then it would have been a no-brainer: trade them for Jaime. They are not, however, because such a trade would make House Stark look weak.

That would have depended on the trade, though. It made good sense - and would have hopefully appeased Rickard Karstark, to demand his surviving son Harrion and Ser Wylis Manderly back as well as his sisters in exchange for Jaime. Nobody could then claim that Robb got the worst of that bargain!

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On 12/6/2018 at 6:28 PM, Angel Eyes said:

You're Robb Stark at the end of AGOT, newly minted King in the North. This thread focuses on a single objective, which Robb seemed to have lost sight of: How should he have gotten his sisters back? Carved a path to King's Landing like Darth Vader in Rogue One? Sent soldiers into King's Landing to get them out? Offered alliances to the other claimants for Sansa's hand if they help him?

There was nothing he could do. He would have had to be written by a different author that didn't have his failure and death as a main plot point meant to forward the story

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On 12/7/2018 at 3:31 AM, Blue Falcon said:

If I really wanted Sansa back I would have traded her for Jaime. Robb didn't because he didn't think that Sansa was that important.

 

On 12/7/2018 at 8:19 AM, King Aegon I Targaryen said:

I'd just try to keep on winning battles until I got to Kings Landing. Nothing against Sansa or Arya, but they where not an equal trade for Jaime. 

Right, because Jaime is practically the only son of the richest man in Westeros.  His value is high.

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Robb had 3 times more hostages than the Lannisters. He should have negotiate a trade of hostages much earlier.

Trade his sisters plus Harrion and Wyllis For Jaime and Cleos Frey. This way he can at least gain favor with 2 of his bannerman.

Once he finds out that Arya is not avaiable, still do the trade but then behead Willem Lannister.

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1 hour ago, Arthur Peres said:

Robb had 3 times more hostages than the Lannisters. He should have negotiate a trade of hostages much earlier.

Trade his sisters plus Harrion and Wyllis For Jaime and Cleos Frey. This way he can at least gain favor with 2 of his bannerman.

Once he finds out that Arya is not avaiable, still do the trade but then behead Willem Lannister.

All that would do is make the Lannister's angry. Behead Willem and a Northern bannerman dies.

Also, one of the greatest warriors in the kingdom, LC of the Kingsguard and eldest son of your main enemy (who is also the richest man in the kingdom) in exchange for two heir's to prominent but not LP houses and two little girls? No way is that a fair trade.

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3 minutes ago, Adam Yozza said:

All that would do is make the Lannister's angry. Behead Willem and a Northern bannerman dies.

Also, one of the greatest warriors in the kingdom, LC of the Kingsguard and eldest son of your main enemy (who is also the richest man in the kingdom) in exchange for two heir's to prominent but not LP houses and two little girls? No way is that a fair trade.

 

They can't kill the Nothern hostages, if they do Robb can kill 3x more hostages from the westerlands.

One sword would not change the war. Robb won't get his sisters back through negotiation without giving Jaime back. Sansa and Arya can be used in alliances, Jaime as long as he stays in KG cannot.

Willem losing his head is just consequence of the Lannisters falling to fulfil they part of the deal since they cannot give Arya.

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