Covid 19 #43: Oh Omicron, oh Omicron, how numerous are thy spike proteins.

[Varysblackfyre321]

17 hours ago, Kalsandra said:

During other outbreaks we absolute do do that with contagious diseases that are very dangerous or are novel. This is exactly how we treat measles and tb outbreaks. They don't happen often because among other things we require measles vaccines!

 

I  noticed a slight unintended implication here through not challenging the parameters of the analogy; that implication being that the flu and covid are  the same.

Which is untrue; covid can and has killed way more people than the flu has these last couple years.

Though I struggle to gleam why some particularly well-off countries can’t indefinitely implement some coercive measures to try to the majority of the populace vaccinated against some diseases 

Or why it’s a given it shouldn’t ever be tried. What i gleam from those firmly in the no camp is that it’s pointless to try to save lives because all men must die.

[Varysblackfyre321]

15 minutes ago, Raja said:

Talking about 'personal responsibility' in the middle of the pandemic is a take

Yeah much of the rhetoric  from the covid-denier/anti-mandate crowd has been a bit eugenic.

Like Why circumvent the enjoyments and economic prosperity of healthy people just to give more protection to the sick, obese and elderly? 

[Raja]

17 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Yeah much of the rhetoric  from the covid-denier crowd has been a bit eugenic.

I don't disagree that we share *some* personal responsibilities for our health - but in this context, with a rapidly spreading virus for the last 18-20 months, it's not something I give a lot of importance to ( besides people getting the jab) and are a distraction from public health failings.

The recognition of the social determinants of health is probably one of the biggest development in Public Health over the last decade, and that recognizes that a lot of what is being talked about here is a product of policy as opposed to 'personal responsibility'. Public health measures have absolutely not 'increased the problem', stating that exhibits an ignorance of the advancements we've had in the field.

[Tywin et al.]

2 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

The virus seems to be increasingly passing between NBA players.

Contests are beginning to get canceled.

The NFL is in the same boat. There are several teams with large outbreaks, and frankly I don't think the public can trust teams accurately reporting just what is going on inside their facilities.

On the subject of personal responsibility, this isn't hard. Yes, individuals should take better care of their own personal health via diet and exercise (without touching on mental health) and also yes, personal responsibility means getting vaccinated, just like you've had to if you've ever attended any public school or university. I'm personally excited that I get to sign up for my booster today, because I'm taking responsibility for my own health while being considerate of those I come into contact with on a daily basis. 

[Luzifer's right hand]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

Talking about 'personal responsibility' in the middle of the pandemic is a take

Well exercising too early after an infection to damage your heart among other things.

Steroid abuse. 

I wonder if strongman are likely to die early just like body builders or wrestlers.

He probably means being overweight which is a global pandemic fulled by industries without morals unlike the COVID-19 pandemic. But that would be facts and science and not personal prejudices and ableism.

 

 

[Zorral]

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/12/14/new-york-new-jersey-omicron-spread-covid-coronavirus/

Omicron is spreading in New York State (not just the city) and New Jersey at 14 times the rate of anywhere else in the US.  We're the highest omicron infection in the country. The CBS story interviews tourists who are surprised, but not surprised: "We just walked from Times Square to etc. and it was packed.  Shoulder-to-shoulder."  I noticed none of these people interviewed were wearing masks.

~~~~~~~~

As for addressing the issues of malnutrition and other poor health conditions and sanitation and hygiene, in terms of the death rate -- I included indoor plumbing and all sorts of other situations -- including the dangers from pregnancy and childbirth -- which again, went entirely unnoticed by the anti-vaccination and distance sorts.  But in the end it's disease (and the conditions of women, pregnancy, childbirth and proper hygiene) that causes the most 'premature' deaths across the board -- including in armies.  The same ilks that back in the day were against all public safety, health and hygiene measures, from shutting down toxic wells, providing safe drinking water, doing vaccination and the like, are the same ilks we see right here on this forum.

[lessthanluke]

2 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

Well exercising too early after an infection to damage your heart among other things.

Steroid abuse. 

I wonder if strongman are likely to die early just like body builders or wrestlers.

He probably means being overweight which is a global pandemic fulled by industries without morals unlike the COVID-19 pandemic. But that would be facts and science and not personal prejudices and ableism.

 

 

So I got the vaccine because I trust the Scientists etc that it was in my best interest to do so but also chose to drop 50lbs in bodyweight and massively changed my diet and lifestyle over the course of the pandemic. I know which one I think was more important(on a personal health level)

People can do what they want and I'm not really mad at anyone on a personal level I just wish there had been a bigger campaign for people to get generally healthier as a means to combat covid.

Of course the Vaccination rollout is far more important than any other factors BUT its a fact that having comorbidities make it FAR more likely that you'll suffer badly/die from Covid but it just gets dismissed which is really annoying to me personally.

 

[BigFatCoward]

2 minutes ago, lessthanluke said:

 

People can do what they want I just wish there had been a bigger campaign for people to get generally healthier as a means to combat covid.

 

 

Boris should have really pushed this when he got sick and realised he was overweight. 

On the other hand most people can't get younger and that seems to be by far and away the biggest issue. 

[Week]

7 hours ago, lessthanluke said:

Of course the Vaccination rollout is far more important than any other factors BUT its a fact that having comorbidities make it FAR more likely that you'll suffer badly/die from Covid but it just gets dismissed which is really annoying to me personally.

 

Not dismissed entirely, acknowledged that this is an extremely complex issue. Not everyone has the ability (the disabled thank you for your care), training, body type, age, genetic predisposition, financial/social situation that they can make drastic and healthy changes.

Access to food, equipment, and time are all uncontrollable factors in the short term.

Not even touching the food industry and it's lobbying to keep food unhealthy, addictive (salty), etc.

I'm curious what your solution is for other comorbidities -- existing damage from smoking/pollution, asthma, chronic renal disease, etc. Etc.

Or -- get a couple of fuxking jabs.

 

ETA -- I say this as someone that took up running this year and lost about 20 pounds (still technically overweight by BMI thanks to existing muscle). It took a lot of fucking running, better diet (not perfect eating and still drinking alcohol), time, and energy. Not commuting to my office job played a huge role in that time and energy -- not something that the majority of people have the privilege of.

[lessthanluke]

13 minutes ago, Week said:

 

Or -- get a couple of fuxking jabs.

Orrrrr do both. Crazy concept.

Obviously there are a lot of comorbidities that we can do nothing about for lots of reason (didn't think this even need to be said to be honest but whatever)

But there are plenty that can be addressed. You say its not dismissed and yet your whole post is dismissive and trying to portray me as an asshole.

At no point did I say everyone could do it or even the majority of people I just said there should have been a bigger push for it which I 100 percent stand by.

The notion that we shouldn't do something because not everyone has access or ability is quite frankly ridiculous. 

 

[DaveSumm]

78,610 positive cases in the UK today. I’m well aware that there’s a lag, but 15 in hospital with Omicron and one death still seems incredibly low. Can the lag explain all of that disparity? Or could we dream that it’s not as severe as Delta?

[A wilding]

We had better hope so, Because the case rate really does not look good. A record high and looking like it is climbing exponentially.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/4F77/production/_122234302_optimised-uk_daily_cases_with_ra_15dec-nc.png

 

[Week]

2 hours ago, lessthanluke said:

Orrrrr do both. Crazy concept.

Obviously there are a lot of comorbidities that we can do nothing about for lots of reason (didn't think this even need to be said to be honest but whatever)

But there are plenty that can be addressed. You say its not dismissed and yet your whole post is dismissive and trying to portray me as an asshole.

 

What exactly do you envision? 

Hospitalization and death for the vaccinated is extremely low, so the benefit of such a program -- vis a vis COVID -- would be among the unvaccinated. How could this program target that population? (Note, they seem to be very receptive to the 'nanny-state')

Re: Bold -- your words. I would describe my post as pointing out challenges and countervailing forces (as others have too).

[DireWolfSpirit]

So if even large swaths of us who've had our shots can still get the virus with this omicron variant, I am wondering if this will help us with antibodies against the next variant in 6 months or whenever?

Or will a future variant leave us yet again vulnerable even with the shots and presumably omicron antibodies?

I realize the answer may be unknowable yet, but still I'm left wondering the future here?

[DaveSumm]

29 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

78,610 positive cases in the UK today. I’m well aware that there’s a lag, but 15 in hospital with Omicron and one death still seems incredibly low. Can the lag explain all of that disparity? Or could we dream that it’s not as severe as Delta?

OK, some more context here; if I’m reading the figures right Omicron only makes up 4,671 of these. So it seems like we’re already in a bad position without factoring in Omicron, so bad thing + bad thing = shit?

ETA: I have no idea if all 78,000 are sequenced and so they know how many are Omicron, or whether that percentage could go up?

[Zorral]

Since so many determinedly have denied the existence of covid-19, denied the vaccines are of use, declared vaccines to do everything from give people covid to planting tracking devices in their bodies, denied masking because masks are everything from preposterous interference with their freedum to being against their religion, denied keeping the determined non-vaccinated out of public, indoor gatherings as cruel and unsympathetic to their determination that nothing matters except what they want -- thousands getting more or less sick from covid is going to be in all our futures forever. That's what the future looks like.

Judging from the tone of those who seem infuriated by those of us who, judging by the statistics, believe vaccination and masking should be mandated, and those who won't, should be left outside, far away from us, getting sick is the most likely outcome.

Thank goddessa the last day of classes was yesterday, and though there's a week of finals going on, mine are doing final papers, not exams, so no need for us all to meet up in the same basement room again.  But the astounding rapidity by which omicron is spreading all around us and throughout the state and boroughs, I fear this is the year I get it.  We're already withdrawing from what bits of normality we've enjoyed in the last few months -- no more restaurants, no more film screenings (not going to the movies, but screenings, which are run a whole different manner than going to a movie theater, per se), no more music. We are warned that January is going to be a peak like we haven't known, maybe even more so than March - April - May 2020.

Though of course the governor told everyone two days ago, despite her saying masks have to be worn inside all businesses as of this past Monday because Delta has already overwhelmed the hospitals north and west of the state and continues to rage, and omicron will likely make it even worse, there will be no enforcement or punishment.  So the point is what?????????

[Week]

A lot to unpack -- seemingly dangerous amounts of cases and illness just by sheer scale. Greater transmission potentially blunted by weaker replication (few tweets down). 

I also read somewhere that a huge spike in water water monitoring in Boston had not had to the case explosion (suggesting milder illness - couple be vaxx or the virus). 

Some big dark clouds with a faint silver lining.

 

[Werthead]

It's coming up on three weeks since I tested positive for COVID and I was feeling a lot better, so went back to work on Monday. Big mistake. My commute is a 40-minute walk each way and it turns out that I was in no way ready for that. Now had a relapse of symptoms, including shortness of breath and fatigue. So yeah, that was a huge mistake I'm not going to repeat in a hurry.

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Now had a relapse of symptoms, including shortness of breath and fatigue.

O dayem -- Sorry this is the case.  

[The Anti-Targ]

My go to source for credible updates on the pandemic was initially very optimistic about omicron being a much less severe form of the virus, albeit a lot more transmissible and was upbeat and hopeful about it spelling the end of the pandemic. The latest update is a lot less optimistic, quoting medical folks from South Africa now starting be believe that for the non-immune omicron may be just as bad as delta for hospitalisation and death. But for the naturally or vax immune omicron does escape immunity at quite a high rate, but disease is a lot more mild. So with South Africa's high immunity rate from natural infection the high case numbers with low hospitalisation and death meant a false optimism, at least for those who have no immunity. At least for the recovered and vaccinated omicron does not appear to represent a substantial increase in seriousness of breakthrough infection, just a higher likelihood that it will happen if you are exposed.

So it seem like omicron is not going to be the miracle we hoped for.