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Star Wars: Nothing But Star Wars


Myrddin
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1 minute ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

There is the issue where shooti no womp rats and getting his arse kicked by sand people is his prior combat experience.

If you can shoot womp rats from a speeding speeder while maneuvering through tight canyons at speed, your gunnery and piloting is going to be excellent, a point no one seemed to contest in the pilot briefing. I also don't know that Luke has "no" combat training -- he carried a blaster rifle on Tatooine, after all, and they are essentially homesteaders in a dangerous place.

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1 hour ago, Ran said:

If you can shoot womp rats from a speeding speeder while maneuvering through tight canyons at speed, your gunnery and piloting is going to be excellent, a point no one seemed to contest in the pilot briefing. I also don't know that Luke has "no" combat training -- he carried a blaster rifle on Tatooine, after all, and they are essentially homesteaders in a dangerous place.

Never says he shot then from a moving speeder. Just says he used to bullseye them. 
And they weren’t shooting back at him

Edited by Derfel Cadarn
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So how did Reva get to Tatooine so quickly and did the final episode just ignore the fact that she was stabbed, shortly beforehand? Also why couldn't Vader have gone off and fought Ben on his own, while his Star Destroyer perused the rebels? The final fight between Ben and Vader was great, but the following logic gaps, really hurt my brain.

Edited by sifth
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2 hours ago, Ran said:

If you can shoot womp rats from a speeding speeder while maneuvering through tight canyons at speed, your gunnery and piloting is going to be excellent, a point no one seemed to contest in the pilot briefing. I also don't know that Luke has "no" combat training -- he carried a blaster rifle on Tatooine, after all, and they are essentially homesteaders in a dangerous place.

I’d also add in that we don’t know how force ghosts really work, but the possibility that Obi-Wan is kinda ‘piggy backing’ on Luke to help him achieve this stuff is the only way I can make sense of “becoming more powerful than you can possibly imagine”. For such a cool and quotable line, it’s surprising none of the other Star Wars content has ever really attempted to explain this.

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4 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Other issues: why didn’t the Imperial fleet launch TIE’s to shoot down the fleeing rebels? Or provide air cover to the ground forces? The Executer alone carried a shit-ton of fighters.

We saw TIE bombers bomb the asteroids, why not send then against the rebel base to soften them up?

Why did the rebels send speeders against AT-AT’s when they had X-wings waiting? Why not send the x-wings to take out the imperial landing craft before the troops landed or disembarked?

Or use the ion cannon to shoot down the landing craft?

One idea I liked that was common fanon in the 1980s was that TIES and X-wings were great at space combat, but TIEs were not designed for atmosphere at all and X-wings could land and take off, but were rubbish at being used as aerial fighters. That's why you needed a distinction between space combat craft and air combat craft, and the air/snowspeeders were the latter.

Later instalments in the canon, obviously, threw all of that out the window and showed X-wings being great in all modes, so yeah, why they don't have the X-wings taking out the AT-ATs with proton torpedoes does seem weird.

Edited by Werthead
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31 minutes ago, sifth said:

So how did Reva get to Tatooine so quickly and did the final episode just ignore the fact that she was stabbed, shortly beforehand?

Don't know to the first, but she does show signs of being wounded and under strength.

31 minutes ago, sifth said:

Also why couldn't Vader have gone off and fought Ben on his own, while his Star Destroyer perused the rebels?

It's not necessary to take the Star Destroyer with him, true, but that's what makes it so believable as a Vader move. He's always been a very extra person.

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5 minutes ago, mormont said:

Don't know to the first, but she does show signs of being wounded and under strength.

It's not necessary to take the Star Destroyer with him, true, but that's what makes it so believable as a Vader move. He's always been a very extra person.

Not quite sure what you mean by that? I don't recall Vader doing stupid stuff like that in the OT. I'll have to rewatch, for signs of Reva being hurt, but the fact that she could find a ship, fly a ship and do detective work, shortly after getting stabbed, still hurts my brain. I suppose it's at least better than Arya running around a city and jumping off buildings, right after getting stabbed 3 times.............but not by much.

Edited by sifth
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Vader's a drama llama. Always has been. He loves to make an impact. Look at that outfit. Do you really think a person who dresses like that is going to show up to meet his former master in a one-man craft when he can show up in a fucking Star Destroyer?

'No, it's fine, Grand Inquisitor, you take the big impressive ship on your more important mission and I'll be over here in the ship on my own. Have fun!'

;)

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33 minutes ago, sifth said:

Not quite sure what you mean by that? I don't recall Vader doing stupid stuff like that in the OT. I'll have to rewatch, for signs of Reva being hurt, but the fact that she could find a ship, fly a ship and do detective work, shortly after getting stabbed, still hurts my brain. I suppose it's at least better than Arya running around a city and jumping off buildings, right after getting stabbed 3 times.............but not by much.

Nah, it's worse. When the episode opened with Reva on Tatooine, I assumed there had been a big time jump. But instead, judging from the space chase scene, it had been thirty minutes since the end of the last episode. So in thirty minutes, Reva, who had been supposedly fatally stabbed, got a ship, went off planet, jumped to Tatooine, landed, and started walking around threatening people. I usually have a pretty high tolerance for fast travel in TV shows, but this was completely ridiculous.

It was ridiculous to begin with that the Grand Inquisitor didn't make sure she was dead after he survived his own seemingly fatal stabbing and monologued about how vengeance does wonders for the healing process. But damn, come on. She got to Tatooine that fast?

So that I'm not all negative in this thread, though, I will say that I loved the final lightsaber fight and the helmet half on/off effect, plus the dialogue in that scene. And I can't lie, I laughed at Obi Wan's "hello there!" Again, there was good stuff and a basically good idea underpinning this mini-series.

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I also think her motivation for hunting Luke is kinda.. 'huh'?. I had to go and look it up why she was doing that, but I still don't get why she thought it would bother Vader. It was just another thing that had to happen to get to the end point. Honestly I think it would have worked better if she had just died. 

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1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Later instalments in the canon, obviously, threw all of that out the window and showed X-wings being great in all modes, so yeah, why they don't have the X-wings taking out the AT-ATs with proton torpedoes does seem weird.

I always just assumed that the x wings couldn't take the elements for that long of a time and it was easier/doable to adjust the speeders.  Could also just be limited x-wings and they were getting used to protect the larger ships as they escaped.

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15 hours ago, DMC said:

If Yoda and Obi-Wan successfully kill Palpatine they will immediately become the two most powerful force users alive. 

Well, aren't they the second most powerful force users while Palps is around? And I'm not sure if there is a neutral party keeping track of those things ...;-).

15 hours ago, DMC said:

Clearly, they can handle Vader, which this series reinforces but frankly was already clear.  Plus, even if they weren't, Vader's volatility and limitations make him a far more palatable adversary even if he does take over for Palpatine.  Same goes for all the Inquisitors, at least in terms of their relative limitations.

The thing is - they aren't really 'adversaries' of Vader or the Empire, are they? Obi-Wan has the chance to end Vader more or less by accident in the show - not doing it when the guy caused so much harm to his friends and many innocent people is just ... weird, if we view Obi-Wan as an enemy of the Empire.

I'd also say that they cannot really hide behind the Sith stuff there. Palpatine created the Empire, destroying the Republic, and the political system - which is an ugly dictatorship - could survive the downfall of the Sith. Meaning that killing both Sidious and Vader might not *really* better things on a non-metaphysical level.

15 hours ago, DMC said:

Sure, that idea I would've accepted.  But I think the alternative of what happened - Vader telling him he killed Anakin, not Obi-Wan, and thus Obi-Wan saying "goodbye Darth" - works even better.

Yes, it certainly works. I'd have preferred a different ending to their duel as I laid out, but I'm not saying it doesn't work. Not even that it sucks. I didn't dislike it.

15 hours ago, DMC said:

Nah, the Jedi way - and particularly Obi-Wan's conception of the Jedi way - is not about punishment or revenge for its own sake.  You're right that Obi-Wan walking away after what he did to him in ROTS is cruel, that's part of Obi-Wan's guilt.  But I agree with Obi-Wan that it's pretty weird ethics to make up for that by killing the man.

Have you forgotten General Grievous? Did he deserve to be killed by Obi-Wan the way he was? Or Jango Fett who was beheaded by Mace Windu? Was that 'the Jedi way'? We can say that Obi-Wan cutting Maul in half got him pretty close to the Dark Side, but we are not talking about that here.

I think there could have been a way to write an exchange between them where Obi-Wan was at least trying or considering killing Vader ... either as a mercy killing or to prevent further evil. In general, I think, it may have been better to see Vader running away/fleeing from Obi-Wan, to account for the lines in ANH that he left Obi-Wan.

14 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

Then Lucas fucked up the PT, and Obi-Wan is apparently amazing, then Yoda is a fighter after all and very nearly beats the Emperor, then this series shows that Obi-Wan can beat Vader if he wants. But even though it was done very poorly, Yoda did lose to Palps so the basic idea is still there.

I think ROTS should have made it more explicit that Darth Sidious owes Yoda, and Obi-Wan shouldn't have left a burning Vader (to die) but rather Vader should have fallen into the Lava with Obi-Wan assuming he was dead, and possibly even trying to save 'Anakin' before he left. Him just walking away just looks weird as hell.

That way it would make more sense that they didn't go after the Emperor later on.

9 hours ago, Rubicante said:

1. Why wouldn’t the Star Destroyer destroy an escape pod with no life forms in it?  If you know the plans are onboard the Tantive IV, why would you risk there being a chance of anything getting out?  To quote Family Guy, are they “paying by the laser”?

They didn't know the plans were onboard. You can explain that with a bureaucratic protocol and the dudes doing it not really knowing what the mission was about.

9 hours ago, Rubicante said:

2. Luke goes from a farm boy to somehow knowing how to fly an x-wing with absolutely no pilot or military training.  It’s absurd.

That works as some people already pointed out. And Luke certainly profits from the standard 'movie hero syndrome'.

9 hours ago, Rubicante said:

1. When the Rebels escape Hoth, there isn’t a single Imperial ship when Luke leaves the planet.  Yet the Falcon is completely surrounded.  Why?

It would have been good to see some, but we know that the other transports also got away, and Vader doesn't have enough ships to encircle an entire planet. You can imagine Luke escaping in an angle which allows him to evade the Imperial fleet. The Falcon not getting away shows Vader's priorities there.

9 hours ago, Rubicante said:

2. Not only is the Falcon hiding on the back of a Star Destroyer ridiculous (do the ships not have proximity sensors?), it does so in the span of 3-4 seconds from flying past the bridge window.  Sure, the Falcon is quick,  but there is no way it could maneuver that fast.

I guess it just does in this fictional universe. We may not understand how this is possible, though.

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2 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Never says he shot then from a moving speeder. Just says he used to bullseye them. 
And they weren’t shooting back at him

While that's true, one can imagine that he must done it also from a moving speeder, or else his comment in context makes no sense.

1 hour ago, mormont said:

Vader's a drama llama. Always has been. He loves to make an impact. Look at that outfit. Do you really think a person who dresses like that is going to show up to meet his former master in a one-man craft when he can show up in a fucking Star Destroyer?

Well, he is willing to put his life on the line in his fighter in ANH. Vader looks like a drama queen, but I don't think he. But if he was a drama queen he would certainly not travel to the planet in a standard shuttle.

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33 minutes ago, aceluby said:

I always just assumed that the x wings couldn't take the elements for that long of a time and it was easier/doable to adjust the speeders.  Could also just be limited x-wings and they were getting used to protect the larger ships as they escaped.

I always assumed X-Wings were just a bit more valuable. Why waste them shooting down AT-ATs when you could be using them to protect fleet ships and torpedo Star Destroyers.

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15 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

I was 8. I didn't care because snowspeeders looked cool skimming over the snow with the rear co-pilot seat and brake flaps. 

And X Wings didn’t have Tow Cables… Duh!!!!

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49 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, aren't they the second most powerful force users while Palps is around? 

Yep.  Point is Palps is clearly superior to Obi-Wan (or at least Yoda thinks so and his performances in the PT/Clone Wars demonstrate as much) and about on par with Yoda, whereas both are clearly superior to Vader and the Inquisitors aren't even really a threat.

51 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The thing is - they aren't really 'adversaries' of Vader or the Empire, are they?

Well, no, but that's their choice and what I was talking about with them being lazy dicks for 19 years.  When Yoda says "into exile I must go," I really want Organa to be like "...um, why?"

53 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I'd also say that they cannot really hide behind the Sith stuff there. Palpatine created the Empire, destroying the Republic, and the political system - which is an ugly dictatorship - could survive the downfall of the Sith. Meaning that killing both Sidious and Vader might not *really* better things on a non-metaphysical level.

I mean, yes, in the real world toppling a 19-year-old galactic-wide autocratic regime probably would be more difficult/entail more than just deposing its leader(s), but in the OT killing Palps literally fixes everything...and then again in the sequel trilogy.

57 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Have you forgotten General Grievous? Did he deserve to be killed by Obi-Wan the way he was? Or Jango Fett who was beheaded by Mace Windu? Was that 'the Jedi way'? We can say that Obi-Wan cutting Maul in half got him pretty close to the Dark Side, but we are not talking about that here.

Those were all in the middle of combat (and moreover Obi-Wan was acting in self defense with Grievous and really with Maul too..in very similar ways - if you're fighting Obi-Wan, never let him hang off a ledge).  I was under the impression you were saying Obi-Wan should kill Vader for punishment's sake at the end of their encounter/when he's already been defeated.

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17 minutes ago, DMC said:

Well, no, but that's their choice and what I was talking about with them being lazy dicks for 19 years.  When Yoda says "into exile I must go," I really want Organa to be like "...um, why?"

Yeah, that's why Palpatine should have really wiped the floor with Yoda in ROTS. He should have nearly died, standing no chance against UNLIMITED POWEEERRR.

I mean, the symbology is kind of there with the cloak falling down and Yoda really looking like a vulnerable child, him being all hanging ears and stuff ... but during the battle it really looks as if he nearly defeated Sidious. No need to assume he and Obi-Wan could not take him together.

17 minutes ago, DMC said:

I mean, yes, in the real world toppling a 19-year-old galactic-wide autocratic regime probably would be more difficult/entail more than just deposing its leader(s), but in the OT killing Palps literally fixes everything...and then again in the sequel trilogy.

Sure, kind of. But we only know that after the fact. I mean, I'm not sure we are thinking in ROTS that killing Sidious and Vader after Order 66 would 'fix everything'. I guess Organa and Padmé and Mon Mothma could work to kind of restore the Republic, but with the Jedi gone things wouldn't be easy.

17 minutes ago, DMC said:

Those were all in the middle of combat (and moreover Obi-Wan was acting in self defense with Grievous and really with Maul too..in very similar ways - if you're fighting Obi-Wan, never let him hang off a ledge).  I was under the impression you were saying Obi-Wan should kill Vader for punishment's sake at the end of their encounter/when he's already been defeated.

I'm not arguing for Obi-Wan to continue to batter a pitiful Vader on the ground ... at least not if the guy doesn't fight back. But they didn't have to give us pitiful Vader on the ground having considerable 'suit problems' ... they could have given us a different scenerio.

Even with a Vader on the ground the guy could have still been evil as hell: 'Walk away from me again, and I'll tear the galaxy apart until I find you. I will walk through streams of blood, I will kill thousands of innocents with my bare hands and it will be all because of you.'

Basically that's what Vader seems to have done the last ten years, anyway, and Obi-Wan must know this in light of how he acted during their first encounter in the show.

It is kind of weird that Vader didn't say something like that in the show, now that I think about it, since that certainly would have been his feelings there.

And speaking about Vader's feelings:

The show kind of rehashes Vader's journey as depicted in James Luceno's 'Dark Lord' novel. There Vader has considerable Obi-Wan issues shortly after ROTS - which is to be expected - and his hunt for a cynical Jedi and his charges helps him to overcome those. That Vader is much more settled in his role as 'the monstrous Dark Lord' than show Vader was at the end ... where he clearly lies to Palpatine about his emotional state.

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I think I have been markedly more positive on this show than the average poster here during the first five episodes. There was a lot of lazy writing and questionable choices, but Ewan McGregor (and the fact that I could binge them) really did a lot for my enjoyment.

I was really hoping that they would stick the landing, but having seen the final episode, I have to say I was wrong about this show. Overall it is garbage. All the questions this raises about the OT, as well as the poor decision making throughout has not been worth it. I don't think this show added anything essential in exchange for what it destroyed throughout its hairbrained tenure.

On 6/23/2022 at 2:47 PM, Relic said:

Some of the Vader stuff was cool, the final battle was pretty ok, Little Leia grew on me and I can watch McGregor play Obi Wan for hours. He's fantastic. Everything else about this sucked ass. I don't know why i keep going back to this well, its borderline insulting at this point, and yet...there's this irrational hope that lives inside of me which whispers "one day...one day". 

This perfectly sums up my feelings about the show. I just don't understand how IP with such an iconic status is not respected. The OT had two great films and one good film in it, but since then nothing I have seen of live-action SW has risen above mediocrity. Worse, I kind of feel like the conveyor belt Disney SW is completely devoid of any passion.

The prequels are terrible movies, but I do not doubt the commitment of the people working on it. With Disney Star Wars it just doesn't seem like anyone cares.

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