[Spoilers] Rings of Power 4: The Battle for Middle-Earth begins

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

I think it would be easy for them to scout and gather rumors. Theoden's march with all the civilians would not be hidden from anyone.

They weren’t anywhere close to either Helm’s Deep or Edoras… they would have had to book it towards wherever… they though the Rohirrim… might… be.  Elves aren’t supermen.  They cannot know where everyone is at all times.

Again… no problem with Elves at Helm’s Deep in principle… but… we needed a plausible way for them to be there.

(Heck… it might have been better if they had been waiting for the Rohirrim and been there when they arrived)

Edited January 4 by Ser Scot A Ellison

[Durckad]

4 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

How… did the Lothlorian elves know where to go?  

Maybe they used their Sin-dar.

I'm so, so sorry for that.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

8 minutes ago, Durckad said:

Maybe they used their Sin-dar.

I'm so, so sorry for that.

:ba dum dum… ching:

Edited January 5 by Ser Scot A Ellison

[Prince of the North]

3 hours ago, Durckad said:

Maybe they used their Sin-dar.

I'm so, so sorry for that.

I think it was the eagles.  The eagles are always the answer.

[baxus]

17 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

How… did the Lothlorian elves know where to go?  Gandalf (unlike the books) in the films hated the idea of moving the Rohirrim to Helm’s Deep.  He scoffed at Theoden’s choice.  If Gandalf thought it was a stupid choice why wouldn’t the Elvish forces be wandering the West Emnet and the Westfold looking for where the pitched battle was taking place as opposed to making a beeline for the already invested Helm’s Deep?

I don’t really mind the Elves showing up.  I mind them showing up in a way that strains credulity.

The thing is that from the books I got this impression of Lorien fighters being more of lightly armoured skirmishers and an elite woodland guerrilla, rather than this regimented armoured unit that shows up in Helm's Deep. Also, such a force would be much more useful slowing down enemy's progress, attacking supply lines, taking out enemy scouts etc. rather than on the ramparts of Helm's Deep.

Could be a misinterpretation on my part, obviously.

And, to be clear, I do have an issue with Elves showing up at Helm's Deep but that's another topic.

[Derfel Cadarn]

I didnt mind thr elves at Helm’s Deep, but it could have been saved for RotK.

Instead of the army of the dead stomping the orc army, maybe have an army of elves and dwarves show up? In the books thr elves and dwarves of Mirkwood and Moria (along with Dale) saw a lot of fighting, so it could be a nod to that

[baxus]

56 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

In the books thr elves and dwarves of Mirkwood and Moria (along with Dale) saw a lot of fighting, so it could be a nod to that

Why would Elves, Dwarves and men send a Fellowship of nine and trust in secrecy and all that and then send armies across the continent to fight in battles to help Rohan and Gondor while their own homes are under attack?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

3 hours ago, baxus said:

The thing is that from the books I got this impression of Lorien fighters being more of lightly armoured skirmishers and an elite woodland guerrilla, rather than this regimented armoured unit that shows up in Helm's Deep. Also, such a force would be much more useful slowing down enemy's progress, attacking supply lines, taking out enemy scouts etc. rather than on the ramparts of Helm's Deep.

Could be a misinterpretation on my part, obviously.

And, to be clear, I do have an issue with Elves showing up at Helm's Deep but that's another topic.

Elves from Lothlorien (in the books (well the Appendices)) storm and capture Dol Guldur across the Anduin from Lothlorien.  That doesn’t sound like “lightly armored skermishers” to me and is part of what Jackson was nodding to in sending Elves to Helm’s Deep.  

Again, my problem isn’t their presence but… how… they got there.  If they are there when the Rohirrim arrive it could have been chalked up to Galadriel and Elrond’s foresight.  Having them march in the way they did makes no sense at all and makes Middle-Earth seem tiny.

Edited January 5 by Ser Scot A Ellison

[Ser Drewy]

Pre-Production for Rings of Power's third season reportedly begins: 

 

[IlyaP]

Why. Who asked for this. 

[ASOIAFrelatedusername]

Unsuprising

I don't think that the series was a complete catastrophe wrt. viewership numbers and they invested too much money and prestige into to not have it run all five seasons.

[Werthead]

If Season 2 really bombs and nobody watches, I don't see this going the distance, especially not based on the late Season 1 streaming numbers. The money they're spending is insane and it makes no sense to keep doing that to "save face." I'm also starting to get the feeling that Amazon really want to pivot to making much lower-cost, more easy-to-sell stuff like Reacher. Of their numerous big SFF projects, only really The Boys seems to have paid off, and maybe Wheel of Time, which has been doing reasonably okay.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

3 hours ago, Werthead said:

If Season 2 really bombs and nobody watches, I don't see this going the distance, especially not based on the late Season 1 streaming numbers. The money they're spending is insane and it makes no sense to keep doing that to "save face." I'm also starting to get the feeling that Amazon really want to pivot to making much lower-cost, more easy-to-sell stuff like Reacher. Of their numerous big SFF projects, only really The Boys seems to have paid off, and maybe Wheel of Time, which has been doing reasonably okay.

Would that scare content producers away from ME projects if it does flop… or… would it push them to get the rights to post LOTR works and try do make these shows properly?

[Werthead]

2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Would that scare content producers away from ME projects if it does flop… or… would it push them to get the rights to post LOTR works and try do make these shows properly?

I suspect they'll compare to the performance of War of the Rohirrim in cinemas later this year. If that does (relatively) well, they may conclude that ME works best in short bursts, not long ones.

[SpaceChampion]

6 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Would that scare content producers away from ME projects if it does flop… or… would it push them to get the rights to post LOTR works and try do make these shows properly?

At this point, don't you want them scared off? 

[Corvinus85]

Having re-watched the LOTR trilogy a few weeks ago, I decided to subject myself to The Hobbit trilogy, in all its extended editions ridiculous glory.

I think like Fellowship is my favorite LOTR movie, An Unexpected Journey is my favorite of this trilogy. It starts well, and only takes a dive once Radagast and his rabbit sled show up. It gets better again with the meeting between Bilbo and Gollum and ends solidly as that last action piece wasn't quite so silly and had better drama. The Desolation of Smaug should never have had an extended edition, it's the one movie made worse by the added scenes. Mad Thráin was a terrible idea and the movie's pacing is godawful. Again, it has some good moments, especially the dialogue between Bilbo and Smaug, the early part of the Dwarves' journey through Mirkwood up until the elves show up, and a few good humor bits. But it also introduces the worst invented side character in the trilogy, no not Tauriel, but Alfrid Lickspittle, aka discount Grima. And then the less said the better about The Battle of the Five Armies. Its only redeeming quality is the performances of most actors, especially the leads.

These movies have plenty of flaws, but for me there are 2 major choices which stand out as being the worst:

• LOTR had its moments of mischaracterizations and changes to the plot, but it didn't really have lore-breaking stuff. With the map of ME in mind, you can watch those movies and follow the characters' journeys. Not so with The Hobbit. Geography is turned sideways, events that took place over centuries are shoehorned in to add tension to the plot. If the elves' quick journey to Helm's Deep bothers you, well Gandalf and Radagast hopping over the Misty Mountains like nothing should send you in a coma. Mirkwood only becomes Mirkwood in this story. Apparently Angmar and Mount Gundabad are just a little bit north of Erebor, and if you want to find the Dúnedain from Erebor/Mirkwood you also need to travel north. Jackson decided to make the stone-giants of the Misty Mountains as literally made of stone who lie on the mountain side when they're not fighting each other; this would make any journey through one of the few available passes practically impossible. The two evil armies at the battle were just two separate Orc armies, one aided by sandworms, instead of Goblins and Wargs. Jackson forgets about the trolls' problem with sunlight and just brings a bunch of trolls to the battle. All nine Ringwraiths were buried in the same tomb in Angmar. Excuse me, what?
• Way too much action! Pretty much every scene of high tension and thrill needs to have some fighting going on, because I don't know, that's what we, the audience, like? It can't just be a thrilling escape from the Woodland Realm via barrels down the river, there needs to a drawn out fighting sequence with it. They can't just run through the dark, claustrophobic Goblin tunnels, they must fight off hundreds of Orcs in the process. And then more action scenes, not even as part of the book sequences, are thrown in, like that ridiculous scene with Radagast leading the Orc hunters away only not really, or the exceedingly long struggle between Smaug and the Dwarves which adds nothing to the story. It's padding over padding in a series of movies that already had plenty of padding. It makes the deaths of Thorin, Fili and Kili feel ridiculous - after so many fighting sequences against so many odds, with Orcs that are bigger than they have a right to be, they just can't do it anymore, and they die. (in fairness, Azog was written well enough as a powerful villain and nemesis to make Thorin's death plausible, but could have still been handled better)

Two movies to also put in The White Council vs the Necromancer, with better execution of course, and the tie-ins with LOTR, would have sufficed.

All that being said, season 1 of The Rings of Power is still below The Hobbit bar. Maybe season 2 can cross it.

 

[Rippounet]

I still remember well the LOTR movies from over 20 years ago (as in, not just a few scenes, but the main storylines), whereas The Hobbit movies basically slipped my mind (I only remember a handful of scenes and images).

Of course, I've had more time to rewatch LOTR, but I think there's also the fact that the LOTR trilogy was made to be great movies and therefore authentic pieces of cinema/art, with genuine attention to detail and respect for Tolkien's work, whereas The Hobbit movies were primarily made as a piece of entertainment, i.e. a consumable that would make money at the box-office.

Of course, middle-aged (and elderly) people will always claim that the quality of art has decreased in their lifetime, but in this case, I'd say the "Middle-Earth franchise" is a pretty good example of this being objectively true.
I have a lot of examples of this, and not that many counter-examples tbh (though Dune does come to mind).

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

8 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Having re-watched the LOTR trilogy a few weeks ago, I decided to subject myself to The Hobbit trilogy, in all its extended editions ridiculous glory.

I think like Fellowship is my favorite LOTR movie, An Unexpected Journey is my favorite of this trilogy. It starts well, and only takes a dive once Radagast and his rabbit sled show up. It gets better again with the meeting between Bilbo and Gollum and ends solidly as that last action piece wasn't quite so silly and had better drama. The Desolation of Smaug should never have had an extended edition, it's the one movie made worse by the added scenes. Mad Thráin was a terrible idea and the movie's pacing is godawful. Again, it has some good moments, especially the dialogue between Bilbo and Smaug, the early part of the Dwarves' journey through Mirkwood up until the elves show up, and a few good humor bits. But it also introduces the worst invented side character in the trilogy, no not Tauriel, but Alfrid Lickspittle, aka discount Grima. And then the less said the better about The Battle of the Five Armies. Its only redeeming quality is the performances of most actors, especially the leads.

These movies have plenty of flaws, but for me there are 2 major choices which stand out as being the worst:

• LOTR had its moments of mischaracterizations and changes to the plot, but it didn't really have lore-breaking stuff. With the map of ME in mind, you can watch those movies and follow the characters' journeys. Not so with The Hobbit. Geography is turned sideways, events that took place over centuries are shoehorned in to add tension to the plot. If the elves' quick journey to Helm's Deep bothers you, well Gandalf and Radagast hopping over the Misty Mountains like nothing should send you in a coma. Mirkwood only becomes Mirkwood in this story. Apparently Angmar and Mount Gundabad are just a little bit north of Erebor, and if you want to find the Dúnedain from Erebor/Mirkwood you also need to travel north. Jackson decided to make the stone-giants of the Misty Mountains as literally made of stone who lie on the mountain side when they're not fighting each other; this would make any journey through one of the few available passes practically impossible. The two evil armies at the battle were just two separate Orc armies, one aided by sandworms, instead of Goblins and Wargs. Jackson forgets about the trolls' problem with sunlight and just brings a bunch of trolls to the battle. All nine Ringwraiths were buried in the same tomb in Angmar. Excuse me, what?
• Way too much action! Pretty much every scene of high tension and thrill needs to have some fighting going on, because I don't know, that's what we, the audience, like? It can't just be a thrilling escape from the Woodland Realm via barrels down the river, there needs to a drawn out fighting sequence with it. They can't just run through the dark, claustrophobic Goblin tunnels, they must fight off hundreds of Orcs in the process. And then more action scenes, not even as part of the book sequences, are thrown in, like that ridiculous scene with Radagast leading the Orc hunters away only not really, or the exceedingly long struggle between Smaug and the Dwarves which adds nothing to the story. It's padding over padding in a series of movies that already had plenty of padding. It makes the deaths of Thorin, Fili and Kili feel ridiculous - after so many fighting sequences against so many odds, with Orcs that are bigger than they have a right to be, they just can't do it anymore, and they die. (in fairness, Azog was written well enough as a powerful villain and nemesis to make Thorin's death plausible, but could have still been handled better)

Two movies to also put in The White Council vs the Necromancer, with better execution of course, and the tie-ins with LOTR, would have sufficed.

All that being said, season 1 of The Rings of Power is still below The Hobbit bar. Maybe season 2 can cross it.

 

:boom:

[Durckad]

Yeah the weird 5 minute "Hey let's go check out Gundabad" detour was basically the movie saying "Yeah, we don't care anymore." It's such a small, dumb, completely pointless thing and The Hobbit movies still manage to make it so fucking stupid. I wanted to start complaining to my friend about it, but I knew he wouldn't care because he's not a complete nerd like me.

The Battle of the Five Armies, much like Revenge of the Sith, is one of those movies where I'm not sure if I actually liked it more than the other two or if my expectations were so sufficiently lowered to the point where I only expected a vaguely competent movie filled with bright, flashing lights and gigantic battles, the CGI-equivalent of jangling keys in the face of a perpetually bored kitten. I remember watching it and being like, well I'm not angry so I guess it was okay? A sign of true quality right there.

I have no desire to rewatch them all to find out so I applaud your dedication @Corvinus85. I will live vicariously through your pain. 

[KingAerys_II]

The Rings of Power is very bad.
Galadriel is one of the first beings that lived in Arda , she is the niece of Feanor, the famous Noldor that created the Silmarils.
Galadriel is older than the Moon and the Sun, it is stated she is tall and strong, female elves are physically as strong as male elves, however Galadriel is not a warrior but a powerful sorcerer.
Finrod, her brother ,lost his life to protect Beren , he killed a werewolf with his bare hands when he was captured by Sauron, who was the father of the werewolves.
Finrod and Galadriel have blonde hair, they took the hair colour from Indis , their grandmother , who was a Vanyar .
The Rings of Power has Galadriel as main character , that's completely wrong , Celebrimbor, the descendant of Feanor, created the rings with the help of Annatar, then Annatar gave the rings to the great nine kings of Men , that became the Nazguls.
Annatar (Sauron) was a Maiar, servant of the Valar Aule, the smith, that's why his knowledge was important .
Galadriel took one of the three rings for the elf kings , she used it to hide the race of Elves from Sauron