Werthead Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 The blizzard of claims and counterclaims coming out of Russia is insane. One that has surfaced is that the attack on Wagner forces a couple of days ago as an attempt by Shoigu to kill Prigozhin, which led Prigozhin to say, "It's on." Wagner social media channels have directed Rosvgardia units to switch sides or stand aside from their planned operations in Russia. Apparently all Rosvgardia units in the Central District of the Russian Federation (which is like half the country) have been place don emergency alert, in the middle of the night. Several Russian sources are now calling this a coup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 So which side do we cheer for? I still think Prigozhin will ultimately fail, but I want him to do as much damage as he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) Just now, A Horse Named Stranger said: So which side do we cheer for? I still think Prigozhin will ultimately fail, but I want him to do as much damage as he can. Whoever is currently losing. Until they both lose Edited June 23, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321 Which Tyler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Most urgent question in Russia right now: Has Kadyrov posted a selfie yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Most urgent question in Russia right now: Has Kadyrov posted a selfie yet? I forget is that the drunk guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 I am not as enthusiastic about an actual civil war in Russia as many seem to be. That sounds... Very scary. Zorral and Durckad 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Unconfirmed reports of a Russian military base on fire in the Moscow District. Not buying too much into that until we get more info. Tanks and APCs on the streets of Moscow in force. Some citizens comparing it to 1993. Just now, Varysblackfyre321 said: I forget is that the drunk guy? He's the leader of Chechnya. Which way he jumps when the shit kicks off has always been a key question. He and Prigozhin were very tight at one point, but they've been more at loggerheads in recent months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkerX Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Sheesh. One of my New Year's Day predictions was that 2023 would see a 50-50 shot of the downfall of Putin and the breakup of Russia. That said, one wonders if the 'Russian Rebels' are going to jump into this mess with a giant stockpile of captured Russian gear given to them by the Ukrainian's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Just now, Varysblackfyre321 said: I forget is that the drunk guy? Nah, the Chechen warlord, who was asking the Ukrainians to help him find his missing bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A True Kaniggit Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: I forget is that the drunk guy? Be more specific. There’s lots of drunk guys. mormont, Durckad, Winterfell is Burning and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Just now, Maithanet said: I am not as enthusiastic about an actual civil war in Russia as many seem to be. That sounds... Very scary. Yeah... I've played too many video games where the plot involves a civil war in Russia leading to "ultranationalists" getting control of nuclear weapons. Zorral, Lord of Oop North and Corvinus85 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Maithanet said: I am not as enthusiastic about an actual civil war in Russia as many seem to be. That sounds... Very scary. Yeah, it's not a fantastic prospect. Russia's nukes could find their way into anybody's hands and all sorts of deniable shit could follow. This has a feel more like 1993 or the failed Turkish coup, though. And so far no shots have been fired that we know of, at least inside Russia itself. Zorral 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 I have to go to bed, but I somehow fear I will miss out on something. XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Yeah, but question is how many people would blockade tanks on the red square to defend Vladimir Loserovich... But overall, I agree (and keep on repeating myself), Prigozhin won't succeed. But we can have some fun for the next 1-2 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Some reports that Wagner and Rosgvardia units have clashed outside Kozachi Tabory, north of Rostov, and the Rosgvardia units fled. These reports are all weird though, using identical wording despite coming from different sources, some Russian, some from overseas. It has the feel of a Wagner psy-ops or propaganda exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Werthead said: hese reports are all weird though, using identical wording despite coming from different sources, some Russian, some from overseas. It has the feel of a Wagner psy-ops or propaganda exercise. AI. One must speculate on that. It's already been used here by the magarat/fascists to show Biden doing what he wasn't doing. Edited June 23, 2023 by Zorral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Winter Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 I don't quite understand Prigozhin's strategy here. His actions during the past few months were increasingly hostile against Russian Army (and its leaders Shoigu and Gerasimov) and indirectly against Putin himself. Fine, but I don't get what does he hope to gain with such course of action. He knows he can't beat Putin - nor in elections, nor in military conflict. As powerful as it is, Wagner will lose, and lose horribly, if pit against Russian Army. Good news for Ukrainians, and all that jazz - but I'm just wondering about Prigozhin's motives here. Did he horribly miscalculate or is there something I'm not seeing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Just now, Knight Of Winter said: I don't quite understand Prigozhin's strategy here. His actions during the past few months were increasingly hostile against Russian Army (and its leaders Shoigu and Gerasimov) and indirectly against Putin himself. Fine, but I don't get what does he hope to gain with such course of action. He knows he can't beat Putin - nor in elections, nor in military conflict. As powerful as it is, Wagner will lose, and lose horribly, if pit against Russian Army. Good news for Ukrainians, and all that jazz - but I'm just wondering about Prigozhin's motives here. Did he horribly miscalculate or is there something I'm not seeing here? Or he thinks the Russian MoD is 95% committed to Ukraine and the only major military units between him and Moscow are the Jack and Shit Brigades. Hence the overwhelming focus on the Rosgvardia, who are basically heavily-armed police (and have suffered losses of their own in Ukraine). Prigozhin is also banking on many forces opposing him refusing to open fire. This is a one-shot power run at Moscow. It might not pay off but maybe it has a 30% chance of succeeding, not the 5% some people are thinking. Wilbur and Knight Of Winter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Werthead said: Or he thinks the Russian MoD is 95% committed to Ukraine and the only major military units between him and Moscow are the Jack and Shit Brigades. Hence the overwhelming focus on the Rosgvardia, who are basically heavily-armed police (and have suffered losses of their own in Ukraine). Prigozhin is also banking on many forces opposing him refusing to open fire. This is a one-shot power run at Moscow. It might not pay off but maybe it has a 30% chance of succeeding, not the 5% some people are thinking. Yeah. I wouldn't bet mony on Prigozhin, but I think he has a real chance at this working out. He needs some things to go right for sure, but not an insurmountable amount. And if he does win, the parallels to 1917 get even stronger. If Nicholas II had kept more of his loyalist veterans with him rather then sent to the frontlines he might have withstood the February Revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Also, whilst the chances that Prigozhin is a complete fucking idiot cannot be discounted, it's also possible that he has supporters/groups in Moscow ready to back him. It cannot be overestimated how furious a large part of the FSB are over how they were scapegoated at the start of the war, and the GRU are incensed at the losses they have incurred in Ukraine. Even if that's not really the case and Prigozhin does not have widespread support in the capital, the illusion he might is sparking serious concern in Moscow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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