Worst diplomatic moment in the series ?

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

There have been many moments where diplomacy was in use in the main story of ASOIAF, whenever it was under the forms of lords or kings or queen meeting and talking with a diplomatic envoy or delegate, them sending peace or negociation terms in the form of a letter, alliance or marriage proposals with another kingdom or region, or sending hostages or wards or sending back persons or items as part of an accord or treaty. 

But what is or are the worst case(s) of diplomacy ever seen in the main series, the moment(s) where the character trying to negociate something did something so stupid that it could cause deads to roll into their graves, or where he or she offered the craziest and most retarded offer or terms for an alliance or peace imagineable with him/her asking for the moon or on the contrary giving the key to his/her chicken hen to the fox with far too generous terms ?

I'd say that Cersei Lannister's slight of the Iron Bank of Braavos is a work of art in anti-diplomacy with her defering all the payments to repay the Iron Bank just so she could build her own lavish royal fleet, because she was so paranoid about the Tyrell and Redwyne Fleet, and then callously dismissing and humiliating the Iron Bank envoy thus causing the Iron Bank to increase its support of Stannis, call back all of its debts in Westeros and refuse any new loan causing economic chaos in Westeros. 

There's also Balon Greyjoy's refusal of Robb Stark's alliance offer, and his alliance proposal to Tywin Lannister with him offering an alliance but if the Iron Throne recognises him as an independent king and grant him everything north of the Neck. Tywin evidently had none of it, pointing out that Balon was already doing for free what he was offering to Tywin and to the Iron Throne, and having no delusion on the Ironborn's capacity to hold the North, nor any intention to deprive his family of less territory to rule over in Westeros.

[Craving Peaches]

Cersei is the worst.

Stannis' 'diplomacy' in ACoK comes off as bad as well... but not as bad as Cersei defaulting on the loans or allowing the Faith Militant again. What makes it funny is that Cersei thinks she's some genius for making all these awful moves.

[Nevets]

Catelyn releasing Jaime as part of an illusory prisoner exchange.

Robb sending Theon as envoy to his own (known to be untrustworthy) father.

Stannis and Renly unable to do anything but hurl insults when they should be joining forces.

Arianne trying to set up Myrcella as queen.  Blood would have flowed if she'd not been stopped.

 

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

Also Cersei allowing the Faith Militant to rearm themselves. Aerys pushing his own Hand away, and also his handling of Brandon and Rickard. Of course he was a total whack-job by then. Another one I'd like that to add, which might be an unpopular opinion, is Tywin not giving Ser Gregor to the Martells. Executed or alive.

[Curled Finger]

Cat taking Tyrion to the Vale to stand trial for the attack on Bran was a terrible idea all the way around.  Everyone paid for that one.  

[astarkchoice]

Everything cersei does as regent

Ned not grasping he needs lf and the goldcloaks 

Tyrion taking that whore to court

Danys not leaving astopor and/yunkai in better shape before marching on

Theon staying in winterfell after asha says hes getting no reinforcements

Asha herself choosing to undermine vic but also go agaisnt euron.

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by astarkchoice

[Hugorfonics]

Stannis made the biggest mistake, although Cersei repeated it later. They let the princess escape.

[Corvo the Crow]

Waymar Royce, the bravest man the Watch, no, the realm has ever seen brandishing a sword against the envoys sent by Others has caused quite the diplomatic incident. 

[BlackLightning]

A lot of the things that Stannis and Cersei do would make the top 10 list

But Stannis and Renly not being able to temporarily join forces against their common enemies is #1. It is still beyond me.

[The Lord of the Crossing]

I would love to condemn Robb Stark for betraying the Freys but what the Young Wolf did is not as bad as the problem Jon Snow created at the Wall.  Jon not only spared Mance Rayder.  He sent Mance Rayder to get Arya from Ramsay.  That was the worst decision ever made by a Lord Commander.  It will collapse the order of the Night's Watch and cause more conflict in the North.  The worst diplomatic move was sending Mance Rayder to get Arya from House Bolton. 

Edited June 9, 2023 by The Lord of the Crossing

[Craving Peaches]

28 minutes ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

He sent Mance Rayder to get Arya from Ramsay. 

No he didn't, he sent Mance to pick Arya up from Long Lake.

[Alester Florent]

Everything Cersei does.

Pretty much every move Stannis makes between Jon Arryn's death and his departure for the Wall. I'm still not quite sure how he managed to assemble the army he did given the lengths he went to to put off and alienate his potential allies and followers.

The Freys at White Harbour. It speaks something to their arrogance to tell such absolute blatant horseshit lies about the Red Wedding to Wyman Manderly's face and expect him to tolerate them.

The Freys at Riverrun. Total incompetence in handling that siege.

NED TURNING RENLY DOWN.

Cat makes a meal of a few things, although negotiating passage from Walder Frey wasn't one of them.

From a diplomatic perspective, the independence declarations by both the North and the Iron Islands were pretty disastrous. Robb at least has an excuse in that he was kind of bounced into it by his bannermen, but Balon actually planned that whole fustercluck.

Robb sending Theon, rather than literally anyone else, to negotiate with Balon.

And finally, the Jeyne Westerling marriage. I can understand completely where Robb was coming from but it was still an epic fail.

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Alester Florent

[sifth]

Stannis sending Melisandre back to Dragon Stone, before the battle of the Blackwater. With her help, he might actually have won that battle.

[James West]

13 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

I would love to condemn Robb Stark for betraying the Freys but what the Young Wolf did is not as bad as the problem Jon Snow created at the Wall.  Jon not only spared Mance Rayder.  He sent Mance Rayder to get Arya from Ramsay.  That was the worst decision ever made by a Lord Commander.  It will collapse the order of the Night's Watch and cause more conflict in the North.  The worst diplomatic move was sending Mance Rayder to get Arya from House Bolton. 

Jon's blunder stands at number 1.  The business of plotting to take his sister across the sea to take her away from Ramsay Bolton will be the ruin of the ancient order of the night's watch.  

[Craving Peaches]

11 hours ago, Alester Florent said:

Pretty much every move Stannis makes between Jon Arryn's death and his departure for the Wall.

It really confuses me as well. He does nothing to gather allies, delays by months after Robert dies, as a result has the least support out of anyone, is in the weakest position yet he offers no one any incentive to join him and expects they should join him for nothing and receive nothing for their service because 'duty', not to mention he expects they should have declared for him without even knowing he was making a claim in the first place... It is a bit bizarre and to be honest I wonder if there was some oversights when writing this part - I know Stannis is stubborn, but expecting everyone to psychically be able to figure out he is making a claim seems a bit much even for him.

[SeanF]

Not all the instances amount to “diplomacy.”

I’d say that Krazny’s insults to Dany, and the Titan’s Bastard and the Yunkish envoy both threatening to rape her would rank high in the annals of diplomatic stupidity.

[frenin]

Renly and Stannis being completely unable to not kill each other when their enemies are at the gates takes the bag.

Gotta love the Baratheons.

[the trees have eyes]

15 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

It will collapse the order of the Night's Watch and cause more conflict in the North.  The worst diplomatic move was sending Mance Rayder to get Arya from House Bolton. 

All 300 of them that are left?

2 hours ago, James West said:

Jon's blunder stands at number 1.  The business of plotting to take his sister across the sea to take her away from Ramsay Bolton will be the ruin of the ancient order of the night's watch.  

Copy paste?   If you are so worried about it you could volunteer, give us some peace.

I would say the Meerenese "diplomacy" of crucifying hundreds of children to taunt and enrage Dany.  I mean it worked, but not in the way they intended.

[astarkchoice]

2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

It really confuses me as well. He does nothing to gather allies, delays by months after Robert dies, as a result has the least support out of anyone, is in the weakest position yet he offers no one any incentive to join him and expects they should join him for nothing and receive nothing for their service because 'duty', not to mention he expects they should have declared for him without even knowing he was making a claim in the first place... It is a bit bizarre and to be honest I wonder if there was some oversights when writing this part - I know Stannis is stubborn, but expecting everyone to psychically be able to figure out he is making a claim seems a bit much even for him.

Heas canon is its just poor communication(as someone as insular and brooding as stanis would be) he expects to gather dragonstone and its islands meager strength , most of the royal fleet and sellswords...then go to the stormlands and have the banners + renly  flock to either him or robert should it come.to war

However he doesnt reach out to renly and somehow.just expectd.his younger brother to wait and then be subservient  to his elder , he also probably expects ned to get in touch sooner (pycelle) 

Robert dies and renly is already making plans as hes spent ages getting in with the tyrells (who we know from.the margery looks like lyanna plot  are keen to be  royal) and winning over the stormlords (who are technicaly his by right of holding stormsend and roberts decree but a little charm never hurt either ....like going to tarth and dancing with brienne etc)

Now stannis we hear has some support in the powerful marcher lords in stormlands but tyrion sending mycella to dorne asks them to occupy the passes s they need their full force ready..thus when renly makes his move (understandable as stannis said nothing about what he wanted) stannis has thus no loyals foothold to possibly contest the stormlords back from his lil bro

[Craving Peaches]

27 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

Heas canon is its just poor communication

There's a difference between poor communication and not communicating at all though... Stannis was moaning people didn't show up to support him but he didn't tell anyone for months and then when he does tell a few people he gets rejected. In the ACoK prologue he complains that Robb etc. aren't supporting him when he never even tried to establish communications with them in the first place so they had no idea he was even trying to claim the throne.

27 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

However he doesnt reach out to renly and somehow.just expectd.his younger brother to wait and then be subservient  to his elder , he also probably expects ned to get in touch sooner (pycelle) 

Yeah he expects Renly to magically know that he's not supporting supposed rightful heir Joffrey but is claiming the throne for himself after being silent for 9 months or more... Like does he think Renly is a telepath or something?

Stannis could have had a lot more support if he acted sooner. It gets even weirder when you consider he was prepping for war before it happened by hiring sellswords and stuff but then when it comes to actually getting word out about his claim he waits for ages.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Craving Peaches