Watch, Watched, Watching: It's Award Season

[williamjm]

I watched The Boy and the Heron which I thought was good. It felt a bit darker and more reflective than most of Miyazaki's films although still with some lighter moments and I think in the end did have a hopeful message. The animation was, of course, gorgeous. Nobody seems to know for sure whether this time it will be Miyazaki's last film (I think it is his third 'final' film), but if it is then not a bad place to end.

[Padraig]

My sample of later 1990s movies weren't as strong as the early 1990 movies  The stand out one was LA Confidential, which was even more fun than I remembered (with a few small gripes).  While Saving Private Ryan is also great, but the ending was definitely overdone.

On the other hand, the Usual Suspects' plot is nonsense.  It is still impressive in many ways but now that I knew what was going on, I realised that behind all the smoke and mirrors, the plot made no sense.  Only took me nearly 30 years.

When it came to Fargo, I wasn't a big fan of it when I first watched it and nothing really changed.  Many impressive aspects again, but I think its because nearly all the characters are dumb and unpleasant (except for the main character and her husband).  I don't really like spending time with them.

And then American Beauty.  That really got so much acclaim on release but even ignoring the Spacey issues, that dated very quickly.

[Annara Snow]

On 1/9/2024 at 2:20 PM, Ran said:

Finished Scott Pilgrim Takes Off. Thought it was great fun all-through, really fun jokes, great dynamic animation that captures the verve of O'Malley's original comic. I gather some fans who read everything through a culture wars lens are less enthused, but too bad, so sad, buckos -- I thought it was great. Will Forte puts in a guest appearance towards the end that's perfect.

Watched Heat for a bit, then decided I felt like I should try The Godfather Part II. I stopped after awhile, though, because I didn't understand how Michael could both be in late 1950s Cuba and also be wandering around in a wifebeater in 1910s New York City. And when did he not know how to speak English? He was born in America!

Do Al Pacino and Robert De Niro look that much alike? Discuss.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

17 hours ago, Padraig said:

On the other hand, the Usual Suspects' plot is nonsense.  It is still impressive in many ways but now that I knew what was going on, I realised that behind all the smoke and mirrors, the plot made no sense.  Only took me nearly 30 years.

I've got takes here. The Usual Suspects is great. Is the plot all over the place? Sure, but it does tie most things together and is on the short list for best endings ever. And everyone in it is great. 

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When it came to Fargo, I wasn't a big fan of it when I first watched it and nothing really changed.  Many impressive aspects again, but I think its because nearly all the characters are dumb and unpleasant (except for the main character and her husband).  I don't really like spending time with them.

Fargo is kinda overrated in my book. I grew up in Minneapolis, just a few miles from where the Coen Brothers did (also right around where the car dealership would be) and I get what they were doing. It makes it even funnier for me that my family's cabin is around the Brainard area. But the plot of that movie was dumber than The Usual Suspects. Again it's another movie that relies on great performances.

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And then American Beauty.  That really got so much acclaim on release but even ignoring the Spacey issues, that dated very quickly.

American Beauty is mid. It was a very weak Best Picture winner. 

ETA: Shit, The Green Mile, The Sixth Sense, The Matrix, Fight Club, The Talented Mr. Ripley and Being John Malkovich came out that year. All better movies in my book. 

Edited January 13 by Mr. Chatywin et al.

[SpaceChampion]

That Monarch: Legacy of Monsters season 1 finale was fun:

Spoiler

Totally didn't make the connection John Goodman was Bill Randa.  The return to Skull Island and seeing Kong was great.  But Goodman's character died in Kong: Skull Island.  This must be a retcon, right?  And I suppose next season we'll see he survived in the MLOM timeline and traveled to the Axis Mundi world between worlds.  Or does his death in the movie happen after he makes the video?

 

[DireWolfSpirit]

I finly got around to seeing Spike Lee's BlacKKKlansman.

Shouldve seen this ages ago it didnt disappoint.

Children of the Flower Moon on the other hand I could only take about 3/4's of the film before I had to take a break.

Its well acted, scripted, directed and so forth, its just so bleek and such a tear jerker to see innocent after innocent victim. This is a story that left me feeling sickened. I didnt make it to the ending.

[Padraig]

10 hours ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

I've got takes here. The Usual Suspects is great. Is the plot all over the place? Sure, but it does tie most things together and is on the short list for best endings ever. And everyone in it is great. 

I think I needed to be told before I rewatched it that the plot was a mess.  I was so impressed by the rest of the movie when I watched it first, that I didn't notice that part.  This time, it interfered with my enjoyment.  But you are right that everyone in it is great.

I remember the plot much clearer from Fargo (probably helped by the TV series), which helped it.  But I do agree about the over-rated part.  I preferred all seasons of the TV show that I watched.

I probably made a mistake with American Beauty.  I do remember the reviews at the time were ecstatic but there are tons of movies like it now.  My curiosity got the better of me.

5 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Its well acted, scripted, directed and so forth, its just so bleek and such a tear jerker to see innocent after innocent victim. This is a story that left me feeling sickened. I didnt make it to the ending.

Edited to add:  I'd definitely agree with that.  It should be watched since its a true story but there is no hope in it.  Except that the story can be told now but that's an incredibly low bar.

Edited January 13 by Padraig

[Heartofice]

Maybe American Beauty was always overrated, certainly the bag in the wind shit always made me groan. Having said that, it’s very much a movie of its time, full of existential dread and the sort of worries about life that just feel like luxury beliefs these days. I really loved it back then but maybe not now.
I kind of feel the same watching Office Space which at the time felt like a ‘fuck yeah’ movie, but now maybe I’m more like ‘you should be thankful you’ve got a job mate!’
 

I also was never much of a fan of the Fargo movie. Went back to watch it after season one of the show and I was right that outside of some brilliant performances, it’s mostly a not especially memorable story. 

Edited January 13 by Heartofice

[Nictarion]

Fargo is top notch for me. Not only McDormand’s performance, but the score is killer. I’ve watched it over and over throughout the years and I never get tired of it. 

[Rippounet]

Finished season 3 of Slow Horses tonight.

Well, it's still nice to see Gary Oldman in his disheveled look, and the season had some excellent zingers/dialogue. Yet, after three excellent episodes, the plot crumbles miserably and the whole thing becomes a parody of itself.
I'm a bit at a loss as to what happened. The writing was top notch for half the season, so what the fuck happened afterward? If I had to guess, it feels like they tried to adapt a small book or short story, or perhaps a plot point of a book, into an entire season, and made the mistake of putting everything in the first three episodes, with little left for the remaining three...
 

Spoiler

Almost three episodes packed with action scenes? Well, my thoughts on this are:
1) This really isn't why I watch this show.
2) If you want to do action scenes, do them properly.
3) Finishing a season with action scenes is ok, but why reveal everything mid-season?

There really was no need to reveal that Diana Taverner was behind everything as early as episode 3 (though one could guess as early as episode 1). Sean explaining that he'd had help from someone within MI5 could have been revealed in the final episode... And among the last scenes, Lamb could have met Tavener to congratulate her... and make some outrageous demand too.
There was no need for all these scenes between Taverner and Tearney - three minutes at the end could have done the job.

And the action scenes... holly fuck, why? Most of them were ridiculous.
- Lamb, Standish & co... Why stay in the house? Booby-trapping the door was a decent idea (though was there really the time for that?). Why not run after that? Why not tell at least Catherine to run out the back? Why not give her a phone and tell her to meet with Roddy (who was supposed to stay in his car waiting)?
In the English countryside at night, no way Hobbs & the other guy would ever have found her.
The suggestion that she was "bait" makes no sense to me, since she was supposed to stay hidden/safe anyway...
The whole thing was just an excuse to have Lamb shine... But fighting isn't supposed to be his strong suit. And honestly, though his traps were decent, they weren't that brilliant either. Hobbs knew something was off from the start, he could have been more cautious...
- The "facility." I haven't seen action scenes this bad in a while. On paper this shouldn't even have been a fight. The moment Chieftain got in it was over. They had grenades, including certainly smoke grenades, and a kill on sight order. So why get in a firefight? Why not just throw a couple of grenades the moment they caught up with their targets?
Also, these guys were supposed to be professionals, most of them ex-military. How the fuck do they not check corners? How the fuck can they exchange fire for a while without either flanking or preventing flanking?
Even nerds having played counter-strike would have done a better job than these Chieftain guys. And I get that they were supposed to be kind of a joke, but this was a bit much. It's as if they forgot how to use their equipment... And talking of which:
- Why did those bullet-proof vests suddenly not do their job? How could Shirley's pistol shot kill a guy instantly? How did Marcus and Duffy conveniently both run out of bullets at the same time?
- Marcus having the "Lethal weapon trunk" was really shitty. It would have been much better for Shirley and him to come up with a clever plan to prevent Chieftain & Duffy to kill everyone. For instance, call journalists and tell them there's an ongoing anti-terrorism operation or something... Or use the MI5 badges to call in the Met, I dunno... There had to be something better than going in with guns... ?
- Talking of clever, wouldn't it have been hilarious if a crucial document (Tearney's assassination order of Alison Dunn for example) had been in the box that Cartwright had failed to deliver at the very beginning? Seemed like a missed opportunity to me.

I'm really annoyed that a show that is supposed to be a spy show attempted to become something else, and failed miserably. I think this could have been avoided easily by having all these characters use their brains rather than guns, which is what they're supposed to be good at. As it is, it feels like the writers suddenly went on strike mid-season and the producers decided to finish the script on their own.
I'll still watch the next season, but with much lower expectations...

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Padraig said:

I think I needed to be told before I rewatched it that the plot was a mess.  I was so impressed by the rest of the movie when I watched it first, that I didn't notice that part.  This time, it interfered with my enjoyment.  But you are right that everyone in it is great.

I don't think it's a great movie to rewatch. It's so much better going in blind. 

[polishgenius]

American Beauty hasn't aged great in a lot of ways, it's just a bit too tryhard. Still some excellent scenes though, Spacey was on his game. I did always find it interesting though that it and Fight Club, out in the same year are, at their core, about basically the same thing. As HoI said, very much a movie of its time. Fight Club also hasn't aged fantastically in terms of that theme (both look quite immature in hindsight for films about grown men having existential crises), but it holds up better because it's more aware when it's being daft. Also: just way more dynamic in its direction. American Beauty's enjoyment hinges way more on what's happening than how it's presented. 

 

(even the Matrix, though it didn't end up being about that, nodded towards similar sentiments for some of Neo's feeling out of place in his life)

Edited January 14 by polishgenius

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

Dazed and confused is one of the most overrated films for me, dunno what people see in it. There have been far better coming of age films with the same formula done before it like American Grafitti. 

Edited January 14 by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II

[Nictarion]

Tigers Are Not Afraid. Mexican crime/horror film by Issa López (director of the new season of True Detective). Short, but pretty great. It has the feel of a couple del Toro films; The Devils Backbone and Pan's Labyrinth, mixed with something like City of God.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

Dazed and confused is one of the most overrated films for me, dunno what people see in it. There have been far better coming of age films with the same formula done before it like American Grafitti. 

Dazed and Confused is okay. Fast Times at Ridgemont High is a lot better in my book. I love this scene (sorry, couldn't find one clip):

 

 

[Kalbear]

The Creator is an astoundingly beautiful, stupid movie that also is way too damn long.

its amazing how thrifty it was given how great it looks, but boy is it dumb.

[Heartofice]

4 hours ago, polishgenius said:

American Beauty hasn't aged great in a lot of ways, it's just a bit too tryhard. Still some excellent scenes though, Spacey was on his game. I did always find it interesting though that it and Fight Club, out in the same year are, at their core, about basically the same thing. As HoI said, very much a movie of its time. Fight Club also hasn't aged fantastically in terms of that theme (both look quite immature in hindsight for films about grown men having existential crises), but it holds up better because it's more aware when it's being daft. Also: just way more dynamic in its direction. American Beauty's enjoyment hinges way more on what's happening than how it's presented. 

 

(even the Matrix, though it didn't end up being about that, nodded towards similar sentiments for some of Neo's feeling out of place in his life)

Yeah agree, lots of late 90s, early 00s movies operate on that sort of ‘end of history’ mindset, which seems a bit naive these days.
 

Being able to complain about your life being unsatisfying because you have everything you materially need, and pushing back against a seemingly unchanging capitalist system, gives me almost nostalgia for a better time! 
 

Fight Club I do think has aged better, mainly because it pretty much seems to have single handedly set off a number of online sub cultures, and the power of guru figures seems more relevant than ever. Of course it’s one of those movies where people tend to take the wrong messages from it. 

[Liffguard]

I finally got around to watching RRR

Five stars, no notes, dudes rock.

[Darryk]

American Beauty was so overrated, I'm glad someone finally said it. The Green Mile and The Sixth Sense were nominated the same year and much more memorable films.

And of course it was the year of The Matrix and Fight Club, classics in my book.

[Liffguard]

Re: the ennui of certain late-90s movies, and how that ennui hasn't aged well and now comes across as whiny, I recommend this video on Daria by Ian Danskin that touches on similar themes.

In particular, this quote:

Quote

For two straight generations the 90s were the least things have sucked in living memory. But I think it's worth remembering that what the Democrats promise - the neoliberal dream - did come true once. And we weren't happy. We were famously disenchanted with it.

 

I think it's easy to look on those late 90s movies about affluent white men in spiritual crisis, especially from the post-war-on-terror, post-great-recession, post-covid position and dismiss it by noting that that was as good as things were going to get, and these people had nothing to complain about. But I do think that these movies had a real point to make in spite of the various ways they've aged poorly. If you look at the protagonists of Office Space and American Beauty and Fight Club and your reaction is, "hey, at least you have a job, and it's a much better job than anyone in an equivalent position in 2024 can get," then I think the response of those movies would be, "a job isn't enough."

Or perhaps, to put it more broadly, if you construct an entire society on market logic and the acquisition of status and stuff, then even if you "win" in that society you'll still be miserable. There has to be something more.