Shogun: More like Shogood (Spoilers 4 days post episode release, show spoilers only)

[Werthead]

1 hour ago, Ser Not Appearing said:

I struggle somewhat with the juxtaposition of random guy interrupting a meeting and how that was so grievous an act as to result in him killing himself and his young child ... and then the end of episode 4.

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Others are shocked by the murders and the brutality so it's clearly outside the bounds of normalcy but ... I'd love to better understand how those two things arise from the same societal structures (which are presented as rather rigid and universally adopted).

Maybe it's the whole point but that act should have been borderline impossible for him to even consider, let alone premeditate and set up the killing shots. Is he just a rogue within his own culture or what's the balance between him and propriety?

 

I think the idea is that

Spoiler

Civil war is likely inevitable and everyone knows it, but the son going rogue and starting the war early by taking out the messenger is really wild. His justification will be that he didn't want Ishido to learn of the superior capabilities of their new cannon, and that this act also forces Yabushige to stop fucking around and remain loyal to Toranga, since the massacre happened on Yabushige's watch with him right there.

I'm not sure Toranga will buy that (not having read the book or seen the earlier show), so it might be that Toranga will demand his son's suicide to restore peace as he's not ready for war just yet, or he might dive into the conflict head-on.

 

[karaddin]

It's also intentional

Spoiler

That it was so dishonorable. This isn't their way, this isn't Bushido on any level. But it boxes Torunaga in, I doubt even just the seppuku of his son would actually be accepted given they were on the verge of ordering him to do that anyway.

So it's brought things to a head faster than anyone else was willing to move in a massive violation of their code of conduct.

 

[cock_merchant]

On 3/13/2024 at 9:04 PM, IFR said:

Book spoilers:

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Mariko. She feigned the courtesan scenario to save face.

 

Arigato

[Veltigar]

Saw the latest episode. I'm still enjoying the visual representation of the time period, but I do think the story gets progressively less engaging for me. This was also the first episode I saw after having read the associated parts in the source novel (I believe I'll be able to finish the novel by the time I'll see episode 5) and I wasn't a big fan of some of the adaptation choices made.

So still, pretty good, but a bit on the decline. I hope it recovers.

[Arakasi]

Very intense episode there. Really good stuff between Anjin, Buntaro, Mariko and Fuji.

[Corvinus85]

 I just want Fuji to have a happier life. 

[Werthead]

Yup, the interpersonal dynamics there were really good, and also between Toranaga and his son.

Blackthorne having to be reminded to watch his fucking words because what is a joke to him can get out of hand very easily. He needs to remember he's not in London anymore (which he does seem to be grasping a bit more as time goes by).

[Mexal]

This show is just too good. 

[Ran]

Yeah, excellent episode, I love the delving into the completely different ways of looking at things. Fuji is to some degree very unhappy to be consort to Blackthorne... but when they're arguing after Buntaro abuses Mariko, and Mariko tells her there's nothing to dishonor in the Anjin's house, you can see that at the same time there's a sting to that because she was consoling herself somewhat that at least he was hatamoto and held in favor by Toranaga -- but it's not real honor or title, it's illusory, simply a way to hold on to the foreign pilot.

Torenaga's rueful laugh when Blackthorne offers Fuji's father's swords to him, especially when we've since learned their actual origin as something purchased off some drunken samurai to tell Fuji a pretty story about how brave her coward of a father was, was terrific. 

Also, LInda remarked that she'd never seen a landslide depicted on screen like that before, and I agree -- how often do we actually see landslides on shows? That was genuinely terrifying, especially with the VFX showing trees sliding down the mountainside.

 

 

 

[Zorral]

Would you all binge it if you could?

How many episodes are there in Shōgun?  I haven't started it yet.  (TBH, I haven't watched anything in weeks, and still too jetlagged at my usual Watch Time, 5 - 7 PM; just get into bed and read until my eyelids just close about 9 PM and stay closed until about 5 or 6 the next morning.)  If this goes on longer I may be able to binge! 

[Ran]

20 minutes ago, Zorral said:

How many episodes are there in Shōgun?  I haven't started it yet. 

Ten in total. This past episode was the 5th.

I suppose it is bingable but I'm liking it at this pace.

[Spockydog]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Would you all binge it if you could?

I definitely would. It's a great show, on almost every level.

[karaddin]

13 hours ago, Ran said:

Also, LInda remarked that she'd never seen a landslide depicted on screen like that before, and I agree -- how often do we actually see landslides on shows? That was genuinely terrifying, especially with the VFX showing trees sliding down the mountainside.

Yeah I watched that then said that I've never seen it depicted remotely like that and I don't ever want to see a real* earthquake, absolutely nightmare fuel.

*There was a tiny quake west of Sydney a couple of weeks ago that couldn't even be felt where I live, but it's the closest I've ever been to one. It can stay the closest.

[Ran]

34 minutes ago, karaddin said:

*There was a tiny quake west of Sydney a couple of weeks ago that couldn't even be felt where I live, but it's the closest I've ever been to one. It can stay the closest.

Landslides loom large for Linda because this happened in her place of birth very shortly after her and her parents moved away. And that was a baby compared to the Shogun landslide.

Biggest earthquake I've been present for was the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, which was a 6.9. I was just a kid, lying in bed watchin the start of Game 3 of the World Series (which by some coincidence was between San Francisco and Oakland, neighboring cities). The bed starting shaking a bit, and then more violently. I thought at first it was my brother playing a trick on me by hiding under the bed, because I had tried it on him relatively recently, but then I noticed everything else was shaking and things were falling off cabinets. I can't believe I ran down the stairs while it was happening, it was shaking so much. Power went out for at least a day or two, and my mother had me and my siblings (plus some neighbors' kids) sleep under a huge, heavy work table my dad (who was on deployment to Korea at the time -- IIRC, I was even recording the baseball game for him so he could watch it when he got back) had in the garage under the theory that it'd protect us if a bigger earthquake brought houses down.

Not fun, but not as scary as it probably was for some of the adults -- it quickly turned into some strange sleepover for us kids.

(The A's went on to sweep the Giants, the only World Series championship the 'Bash Brothers'-era A's would get.)

Edited March 20 by Ran

[karaddin]

Apparently it was the fortnight for things freaking me out in shows - Constellation featured someone driving across a frozen lake in Sweden and if the sound they used for driving across ice is actually accurate that was as scary as the landslide. Do not like.

[Jaxom 1974]

This show is still so good. 

Having not read the book, I'm really rooting for Fuji. She deserves so much better...

[DireWolfSpirit]

What on earth was Blackthorne doing to that perfectly fine pheasant (freakin insanity man)?

[karaddin]

6 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

What on earth was Blackthorne doing to that perfectly fine pheasant (freakin insanity man)?

Yeah I was with all of the others reactions. Separate everything for him and don't touch anything he cooks!

[Heartofice]

The Pheasant thing I really had to google because I couldn’t imagine anyone hanging out stinking rotting birds, even back then. Apparently it’s sort of true, but would work better in hotter climates, and it’s basically winter in Japan there. Surely Blackthorne would understand that.

[Jaxom 1974]

Maybe? 

Where didnthe rabbit stew he apparently made come from too? Though I get his seeming desire to share something of where he's from too, though it keeps coming up wrong because he's still learning what's what.