US Politics: A democratic election Prospect Theory and practice

[Kalbear]

I think on the Christians for Trump thing - it is a bit weird to me that so many Christians are entirely transactional in their politics instead of voting morally. I can't exactly fault them for that; it's not a bad strategy and in fact has gotten them more gains than virtually any other POTUS to date, in places that were apparently incredibly important to them. But it seems like a very weird set of things to square. Trump is by all accounts an absolutely atrocious human being;, especially by most morals Christians tend to espouse. In a more just world I would think that Christians would almost unanimously be against him and not just against him, but strongly so. 

Edited March 29 by Kalbear

[DireWolfSpirit]

Imo Republicans by association, have corrupted what the label Christianity emotes and that has been a lamentable slide to witness in my lifetime.

[A True Kaniggit]

Bet you a silver dime that if I raised a kid in total isolation from the moment of their birth that I could convince the kid that I was God. 
 

And if you met the kid in 20 years they would argue their belief that I was God in complete sincerity. 
 

Edit: Has no one else painted eggs this year to placate the Bunny Gods?

Easter is only two days away!

Edited March 29 by A True Kaniggit

[Larry of the Lawn]

35 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

Depending on how you want to define Gorsuch, 6 or 7 of the SC Justices are Catholics. That's pretty stupid. 

And 8/9 studied at either Harvard or Yale at some point.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

20 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said:

And 8/9 studied at either Harvard or Yale at some point.

Which is also a really bad idea. You need at least some people in positions of power that came up in a way that helps them better understand everyday individuals and their struggles. I've never really viewed Ivy League schools as being that great at fostering the development of emotional intelligence for their students and at times listening to stories it sounds like it's common for them to do the exact opposite. Or at least for the most hypercompetitive students to turn out lacking that skill set which is incredibly important in every aspect of government. 

[LongRider]

Right wing ultra-conservative Catholics are found in the USSC, where 4 are members of Opus Dei and Barrett is a member of People of Praise.   The links go to articles about Opus Dei and People of Praise. 

With the confirmation of now Associate Justice Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court Oct. 27,  there are now six practicing Catholic justices. Barrett joins Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Sonia Sotomayor and Brett Kavanaugh.   from here:  6 of the 9 Supreme Court Justices are Catholic — Here’s a Closer Look| National Catholic Register (ncregister.com)

Justices Amy Coney Barrett, John Roberts, Clarence Thomas, Brett Kavanaugh, and Samuel Alito either belong to or are close to members of Opus Dei, the secretive lay movement within the church, first created in Spain by Father Josemaría Escrivá in the 1920s.   Right-wing Catholics control the US Supreme Court (irishcentral.com)

Donald Trump’s nomination of Amy Coney Barrett to the supreme court, to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg, has drawn attention to a secretive Catholic “covenant community” called People of Praise that counts Barrett as a member and faces claims of adhering to a “highly authoritarian” structure.     Amy Coney Barrett: spotlight falls on secretive Catholic group People of Praise | Amy Coney Barrett | The Guardian

[LongRider]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

I've never really viewed Ivy League schools as being that great at fostering the development of emotional intelligence for their students and at times listening to stories it sounds like it's common for them to do the exact opposite. Or at least for the most hypercompetitive students to turn out lacking that skill set which is incredibly important in every aspect of government. 

Example, Brent Kavanaugh of the USSC, graduated from Yale and Yale Law School.  Not known for his empathy and foresight.  Does however, "like beer."

[Zorral]

Presumably, @Fragile Bird gave up this place for Lent and Holy Week?

[A True Kaniggit]

17 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Presumably, @Fragile Bird gave up this place for Lent and Holy Week?

I hope so!
 

Why are you ignoramus’s treating murder rabbits as if they are a joke!?

https://youtu.be/XcxKIJTb3Hg?si=iL9Ma3_hlgaXPqDt

Edit:  

Edit 2: I warned you!

Edited March 30 by A True Kaniggit

[Phylum of Alexandria]

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

I think on the Christians for Trump thing - it is a bit weird to me that so many Christians are entirely transactional in their politics instead of voting morally. I can't exactly fault them for that; it's not a bad strategy and in fact has gotten them more gains than virtually any other POTUS to date, in places that were apparently incredibly important to them. But it seems like a very weird set of things to square. Trump is by all accounts an absolutely atrocious human being;, especially by most morals Christians tend to espouse. In a more just world I would think that Christians would almost unanimously be against him and not just against him, but strongly so. 

It's like a near perfect portrait of a deal with a devil.

[Fez]

18 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

It's like a near perfect portrait of a deal with a devil.

I know referencing movies is hackneyed, but I'm reminded of that part in Kingdom of Heaven where the crusaders are laughing at "those sorts of Christians" who actually try following Jesus' teachings.

Anyway, good to see everybody.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

6 minutes ago, Fez said:

I know referencing movies is hackneyed, but I'm reminded of that part in Kingdom of Heaven where the crusaders are laughing at "those sorts of Christians" who actually try following Jesus' teachings.

Anyway, good to see everybody.

King Snooty Celeborn got what was coming to him…

[Ormond]

On the "Evangelicals" and politics issue -- more and more people, especially Southern White men, who label themselves "Evangelical" actually never or almost never go to church. They are actually more right-wing and Trumpist on average than Evangelicals who do actually participate in churches.

Here's an article from Christianity Today by a historian about this:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/august-web-only/church-attendance-sbc-southern-evangelicals-now-lapsed.html

His conclusions (when he says "When people leave church", he's just talking about the White Evangelicals who he gives statistics on earlier in the article):

Quote

 

When people leave church, they retain that moralism—at least insofar as it pertains to other people—but lose the sense of self-sacrifice and trust in others. They keep their Bible, their gun, their pro-life pin, and their MAGA hat, but also pick up a condom and a marijuana joint and lose whatever willingness they had to care for other people in community.

For decades, many pundits have warned about the political dangers of a Southern Christian Right that was intent on blurring the boundaries of church and state. But whatever those dangers might have been, perhaps the greater threat to democracy in the South right now is a de-churched populist Right that is just as angry about efforts to correct racial injustice and even more individualistic.

 

 

[DMC]

29 minutes ago, Ormond said:

On the "Evangelicals" and politics issue -- more and more people, especially Southern White men, who label themselves "Evangelical" actually never or almost never go to church.

This is certainly an increasing trend, but it doesn't change the durable correlation between high religiosity - literally measured by how often a respondent goes to church - and conservative ideology.  This goes for other religions too, btw - Jewish and Muslim respondents follow the same pattern.

Now, is some of that due to social desirability effect, and in particular with self-identified evangelicals having an increased tendency to report they go to church more than they do?  Sure, but that's always been the case.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

21 minutes ago, DMC said:

This is certainly an increasing trend, but it doesn't change the durable correlation between high religiosity - literally measured by how often a respondent goes to church - and conservative ideology.  This goes for other religions too, btw - Jewish and Muslim respondents follow the same pattern.

Now, is some of that due to social desirability effect, and in particular with self-identified evangelicals having an increased tendency to report they go to church more than they do?  Sure, but that's always been the case.

That’s interesting.  I will concede that many of the people I attend church with weekly are “conservative”.  But what I find is their “conservatism” is more thoughtful and subtle than that we experience on line tends to be.  

I know I don’t advocate for things I advocated for when I started posting here 21 years ago.  But it isn’t because I don’t value the things I valued then.  I do.  I simply think I’ve become more pragmatic about addressing those concerns.  

Many of the “conservatives” I attend church with agree along those lines.  They see the danger of the hair on fire crazies backing Trump and his conspiracy bullshit.  They want stability returned.  I don’t know if my parish and my parish priests are particularly good at fostering thoughtful discourse or not but I don’t see many kooks at the parish I attend.  I’m sure their are some… but… they tend to keep quiet and not garner recruits.

Edited March 30 by Ser Scot A Ellison

[DMC]

My uncle is selling his dairy, one of the largest in Texas.  There's a number of reasons - namely it's been losing money the past couple years - but he did emphasize the following to me when I talked to him about it.  Now that it's public, feel comfortable sharing -- and it is relevant to US politics.

Bird flu is spreading to cows:

Quote

The FDA is investigating the spread of "a highly contagious and often deadly" bird flu to dairy cows in Texas, Kansas and Michigan, the agency said on Friday.

The big picture: The bird flu was detected in unpasteurized milk samples and swabs from two dairy herds in Texas and Kansas and one in Michigan, but federal authorities said in an online Q&A there is "no concern" about the safety of the U.S. milk supply. [...]

The agency also said milk loss from sick cows is "too limited to have a major impact on supply." That means "there should be no impact on the price of milk or other dairy products," the FDA said.

Yes, but: The FDA has limited research on whether the flu can be transmitted through raw, unpasteurized milk or other dairy products that use raw milk, like cheese.

The agency recommends against buying and selling such products when cows show signs of illness even if the cheese will undergo the required 60-day aging process.

[Larry of the Lawn]

RawMilkMike has gotta be lurking on this thread like a flu-infected vulture circling the carcass pit behind a dairy.  

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Nah, I think he has other things on his talons.

I am kinda curious how Democrats will react, if we get another round of oust the speaker for essentially doing his job.

If he really brings the Ukraine aid package to the floor, then they might be tempted to vote present or even sorta grudgingly prop him up. On the other hand, if he does, he has also sorta outlived his usefulness, as this house is not passing anything major, after it barely got the goverment funded.

It's really reverse Sophie's choice all over again. He is awful, but whoever Republicans will bring to the floor will likely be awful too. Vote him out and roll the dice to see what the random kook generator (I assume) the House GOP uses to pick their next speaker spits out this time, or back Maga Mike.

[DMC]

15 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

If he really brings the Ukraine aid package to the floor, then they might be tempted to vote present or even sorta grudgingly prop him up.

A number of Dem MCs have already gone on record stating they will back him in exchange for putting Ukraine aid on the floor.  Quite possibly already enough to account for Greene's suicide squad.

Actually, the tricky thing at this point is deciding whether to combine Ukraine and Israel aid as it is in the already-passed Senate supplemental, or just put both up individually.  To bypass the Rules Committee, Johnson needs 2/3s support.  He'd definitely get that for a Ukraine-only bill, but enough Democrats would probably balk at a bill that included funding for Israel.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

I'd think the Democrats would also wave through a combined bill. It'd be utter madness to leave Ukraine hanging to make some hay and grandstand over Gaza. Maybe with Europe literally an ocean away Ukraine looks more like an issue to play politics over (as shown by the GOP). But I'd like to think the House Democrats are smarter.