Watch, Watched, Watching: Anybody but Superman

[mcbigski]

8 hours ago, Werthead said:

I've only seen the first season of Justified I fell off it hard in Season 2. I should try again.

Really?  Margo Martindale was probably the best antagonist apart from Boyd and I think that was season 2,   (Mags Bennet.)  Whatshisname that other guy from the show with the plane crash and the money and that one guy from that sci fi series was also a great villian.

[TheLastWolf]

Bojack! How did that get left out. The View from Halfway Down was just- aah.

Edited April 21 by TheLastWolf

[RhaenysBee]

So I’ve been ill - again… here’s the strep binge fest rundown: 

The Full Monty 1997 - rather short, very British, very retro, absolutely heartwarming. It claims to be a comedy but it’s so much more. 
The Full Monty 2023 - probably the first time ever when I say that it was worth to make the reboot. Beautiful, heart wrenching, relatable, lovable, intelligent, balanced little show. I will actually rewatch this. 

Downton Abbey New Era - big screen format just doesn’t work when you have a cast of 20+ regulars and you even have to squeez out a plot. I can’t not love it because I love Downton, but it lacks the depth, the nuance, the richness of the series. Still, a sweet collection of compulsory downton moments and tropes. 

The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel - so I did watch this the night I had fever and a migraine so I was half asleep and half out of it. It was sweet, the cast is amazing, but it lacked a hook and the pace was a bit too slow. Recommended it to my mum, exactly her cup of tea. 

The Second Best Exotic Marigold Hotel - I liked this one more, perhaps because a lot of the character stories arrived in this one (took two films with the pace). I was also feeling less shitty when I watched which may contribute. But I’m not okay watching Maggie Smith “die” twice within a couple days. 

1923 - welllll. I watched 6 episodes… I have feelings. Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren are wonderful. I love them. But Ford is a little bit frail and doesn’t command the same screen presence he did even 10-15 years ago or the one Costner indisputably does. That impacts how you buy into the Dutton family power and position. Mirren course corrects this a lot though. Jerome Flynn fails to give me the villain vibes. And then there’s Spencer and Alexandra. Now I love the Africa bits, I love that it’s not CGI but real drone shots and filming tricks. Breathtaking. I like Spencer, even though he is neither Costner nor Luke Grimes. I think it’s the hairstyle, or the mustache … I digress. Alexandra is an interesting one. I really like the character, very much fits the Dutton woman archetype but still playful and fun. But there’s something about the delivery, like they are trying too hard. There are these odd little moments when it feels overacted and disingenuous and it snaps me right out of the story. I don’t know if it’s a direction because they want a stark juxtaposition to broody quiet rough Spencer or the actress is still trying to find her tune with the character. I don’t know. I both love the character and feel like she’s nails on a chalkboard.The themes, the set are too similar to Yellowstone. I kinda feel like with the history text book in fifth grade, there were foraging and animal skin tents and cave drawings and domesticating dogs and horses, next chapter, bamm, Sumer city states. How did that happen? So yeah, I’m looking for what happened between 1894 and say 1914, if anybody would, thank you. As for the native American girls school storyline… I watch this gratuitously brutal and completely disjointed substory for half, HALF the entire show before it finally turned out how it relates to any of the main story. Why? Why wouldn’t you hint sooner? Why wouldn’t you do something, anything narratively to avoid the sensation that it’s a separate series within the series? I’m not saying it’s not good, I enjoy it, but I am saying for me it comes third after 1883 and Yellowstone. 

[Veltigar]

I got a chance to see the Argentinian film Los Delincuentes (The Delinquents) in theatre. It's an incredibly well-received film by critics so I was curious to see what made it so special. Unfortunately, the most joy I derived from watching the film came from reading some negative IMDB user reviews afterwards (though it still has a 6.8/10 user score, which I find odd) 

This film basically reads as a contemporary definition of self-indulgent film-making. While I thought some of the hysterically negative user reviews were a tad overwrought, I do sympathize with the people who felt cheated out of 3 hours of their life. There is some nice nature footage in the film and I did find the actors' portrayal of their characters convincing, but the story went out of its way to be simultaneously nonsensical and unengaging.  

I usually have pretty good experiences with smaller indy films, but occasionally a film comes along that reminds you that the negative stereotypes about arthouse films are at least sometimes true. The Delinquents is so obsessed with deconstructing the genre that it forgets to be clever about it. In that sense, it offers up the worst of both worlds. I'd recommend skipping this if you are doubting to see it.

20 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I'm also not sure you should allowed to put in a show where only a quarter of the episodes were ever good (looking at you True Detective). Also I'd include comedies, but that might be a bit subjective. 
 

In general I agree that a show where you have to bracket off the majority of seasons could hardly be seen as the best ever (although that leaves the vexing matter of early Simpsons to resolve), but for True Detective I think it's certainly allowed because of the fact that it's an anthology. I think it's far easier to say that S1 of True Detective or The Terror is amongst the best TV ever, as each season in the series is a self-contained installment  

On 4/19/2024 at 8:10 PM, Corvinus85 said:

Why are those events nonsensical?

I see I phrased that poorly, I actually meant it broader that the entire situation was nonsensical, though I'll admit that knowing how the season is going to end (having read the book and while details while differ, everything is set up to largely end in the same place) might be giving me a leg up on spotting just why it's idiotic.

I have explained below what my reading of it was. I'll also embed another spoiler box in the text below, where I hint at a mild book spoiler

Spoiler

The episode begins with Toronaga running into a trap laid out by his unreliable brother. As remarked on by the brothel keeper, it's extremely unlike Toronaga to walk into a trap that he could have easily avoided by posting proper sentries and outriders.

And yet, Toronaga's treacherous half-brother is not alarmed by the lack of resistance his brother displays. Given how he must have had at least some political cunning to survive in the dog-eat-dog world of Japanese politics that the show depicts, it's pretty remarkable but I guess we sometimes need to accept a stupidity-enhancing field running around characters like Toronaga.

The show is thus setting up a situation where Toronaga willfully walks into a trap, but without having any real way out. This is just entirely at odds with the character of Toronaga in both the book and the earlier episodes of the show, and doesn't make a lick of sense really.

The actions of his rash son than reshuffle the deck, but I found this nonsensical. We know Toronaga's son is not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer and yet we are asked to believe that he could plan this attack without Toronaga knowing? An attack that then almost succeeds even, which is also nonsense, as Toronaga's brother should have been well aware of the risk of assassination from either Toronaga or one of his over-eager vassals given the situation they were in.

For the former there might be an excuse later, if it is revealed that Toronaga gave a secret order to his son

Spoiler

(not in the book I can tell you)

to sacrifice himself, but for the latter there is no good excuse.

This particular plot then becomes dumber still when the son dies by slipping on a rock and hitting his head? Like, fuck you, that's a tremendous amount of coincidence. And then we continue with an added dose of ridiculousness in which this brat, who had already killed one envoy (for which he would be ordered to commit seppuku if he had accepted the papers offered) and has now actively tried to assassinate a Regent of Japan, is rewarded with an official funeral and 49 days of mourning?

All of this is stupid, since by failing in his assassination attempt, the son gave Toronaga's brother the perfect excuse to pounce upon the Toronaga army which was actively at his mercy given the fact that Toronaga had walked the entire army into a trap. The Council of Regents would realistically have used this as an excuse to remove Toronaga of the board entirely. Instead the man is rewarded with a stay of execution and 49 days to prance around.

 

 

[RhaenysBee]

Okay no, this is ridiculous. Up until some point it was semi-believable what’s been going on in this Africa storyline in 1923, but we are so long past that. 
 

Spoiler

So say I believe that Spencer and Alexandra happened to be attacked by some rouge elephant after not bothering the elephant herd. How… unlucky. Say I believe that they had to night out in the wild. Say I even believe that somehow they didn’t have time to look for a taller tree and the lions and hyenas attacked them. I certainly don’t believe they had sex on the tree. I do believe people would be out looking for them. Fine. Lucky, but fine. 
Say I believe that Spencer is dumb enough to get on a sketchy tug boat with a dying captain to get to Suez because he’s in a hurry. Say I believe they happen to pass a free drifting ghost ship once. But twice? That’s… that’s sure real unlucky.  I sure believe the captain died in under 24 hours of setting out. I can also believe the motor of the ship would be dodgy, we know the radio is. Now for all of these events to coincide in one single momentum? That’s just beyond unlucky. But they both survive without injury and swim onto the flipped boat because these two are just beyond lucky. Twice, in fact because Alexandra is stupid enough to deliberately get off it. Okay, at this point, I fully believe they will be rescued because Spencer radioed for help and they are the protagonists. Although I was sort of expecting them to have miraculously roped themselves up the ghost ship and sail it that to Suez after we cut away from the shot of the boat upside down, because it would have had that Tarzan flare and it’s honestly not less likely or believable than anything else that happens to this pair. Oh well. So they are waiting to be rescued, I don’t care about the sun or the water because it doesn’t even cross my mind that they might die at this point, I just want the actress to open her teeth when she talks. She doesn’t, but sharks do appear. They just do. The sharks come… I suppose for all the blood the captain coughed up? Because Spencer and Alexandra don’t have so much as a scratch on them. Isn’t that unlucky? And then Spencer shoots one. And the rest leave. Wonderful. You have generated 3 minutes of plot that adds nothing to the anything. Spencer and Alexandra are rescued and they land in Sicily where they run into Alexandra’s ex in a restaurant. In the whole wide world. That happens. This implies two things. That Alexandra and Spencer spent more time at sea than the three weeks they would have had to wait for the ship plus the time of the voyage otherwise they would have arrived in Sicily weeks before the boyfriend. So either they spent weeks with the dying captain or spent weeks on the top of the tug boat, neither of which fit the plot. Option B, boyfriend has a jet pack from game of thrones and teleported ahead to Sicily. Wonderful. They board the same ship, boyfriend is butthurt and asks Spencer to a duel, who refuses several times but eventually succumbs to his hormones. The two go to the deck and are handed SWORDS by a crowd that don’t  intervene and don’t realize that sword duels in 1923 are by no realistic chance legal. There’s also no staff on this ship to intervene, the only one is conveniently away to alert a foreman. Spencer defeats boyfriend three times but boyfriend is so persistent to die that Spencer eventually gives in and throws boyfriend overboard in self defense. For some reason, nobody from the crowd reinforces this chain of events when the ship guard arrive so Spencer is arrested!
………….  Are you serious? Are you seriously expecting me to believe this? Stop generating redundant plot to kill fucking screen time , the character needs to get home so the actual story can happen. It’s 1923. There’s no fucking way that it takes 1 year for you to get to America from Africa, you arse, the conquistadors traveled faster than you before the Industrial Revolution. What is this. What is this. Who wrote this? 1923 feels like it was written by Rian Johnson and David Benioff, not Sheridan. Why would anybody write like this? Cut the elephant, let their car break down. Lions fine. Let them get on the tug boat, kill the lungless gentleman, let them figure out navigating the boat alone. Cut the fucking ghost ship and bloody sharks and the rescue. Cut the boyfriend, cut the arrest. Have them run into Alexandra’s parents in a port because they came looking for her and are checking out arriving ships. Let the parents get mad and disinherit Alexandra so we don’t need to worry about them anymore. Let them board a ship, do the titanic shots and the wedding, cut to getting off the ship in the US. They still have a damn train and horse journey! You are nowhere near out of plot! Just. Make. Progress. FFS. 
okay. So Alexandra FORGOT that the boyfriend she ditched was a member of the British Royal family? Like it did not occur to this British woman on a British ship to warn her not-British husband that her British ex is also a royal, so caution might be useful to apply when dealing with him? How in the world is that remotely in the realms of possibility? Also, in light of this knowledge, Alexandra can and should be held fully responsible for the unlucky plot that occurred on this latest ship for withholding this piece of vital information. It is also preposterous that the writing would purposely mislead you to serve up this “twist” during the final episode. Unforgivable writing. At this point this storyline is bleeding from a head wound and it’s not Jacob Dutton. 

also the amount of stolen tropes in this show… Game of Thrones want their torture porn and prostitute beating back. 

 

Edited April 21 by RhaenysBee

[Zorral]

At least at the time of Shōgun's  publication (1975) people were more than willing to accept that Japanese were governed so entirely by manners of politeness, performing everything correctly according to Shinto and Buddhist and whatever else traditions -- as if we all shouldn't have been educated into how quickly political, economic and military gains-- even fulfilling your lust for your father's wife! -- has individuals ignoring the traditions of anything. The courts of Versailles of the 17th and 18th centuries, or even history of the Roman Empire teach us that.  But this always correct behavior and following of rules was very large part of building the exotic Japanese world that was the attraction the novel provided those generations of readers.

Soon after though, that began to change quickly with the "Japanese menace" of economic ascendancy in the 1980's, which made them villains again -- though in a sense 'exotic' villains. For those of us too young to recall:

Anatomy of a Scare: Yellow Peril Politics in America, 1980–1993
M. J. Heale

Journal of American Studies
Vol. 43, No. 1 (Apr., 2009), pp. 19-47 (29 pages)
Published By: Cambridge University Pres

This is the period of Cyberpunk's fascination with the Yakuza (and the Russian gangs too -- Sterling in particular was all up with that!), heavily influenced by film, like Gibson was with Blade Runner (1982), which he told me he watched over and over, alone, during the day, at the university movie theater where he worked.  Adelstein's semi-fictional experience/memoir of 1993, Tokyo Vice: An American Reporter on the Police Beat in Japan (2009) came along at the tail-end of that.

By then the the 'West's' fascination burgeoned with the boy bands, girl bands like pop-punk Shonen Knife, girl Cuban salsa band, Chicaboom (which probably introduced a segment of young males here to salsa which Cuban salsa -- or Puerto Rican salsa bands, never could), and a whole lot of other Asian pop culture phenomenon, such as manga, or the Studio Ghibli features.

A while back there was an endless Chinese period romantic soap opera that fandom was obsessed with -- dayem, at the moment it's title escapes me.  Anyway, they'd watch all the seasons and all episodes and start over again.  I could never find the charm and enchantment they insisted it has - to me it was both silly and dull.   (This is why we have lots of different forms!)*

The consequence is that by the beginning of the 21st C, we’re all swimming together in this global pop culture influence, cross-influence as a matter of course.  But it was a very different world here in the 'West' back in 1975, despite all the fathers and grandfathers still quite vital back then, who served in Japan post WWII, and later, even uncles, perhaps, who were stationed in Korea when they enlisted upon graduation from h.s.

* ETA:  I remember the title -- Nirvana in Fire. (2015)

  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5141800/reviews 

 The endless Turkish series, Ertugrul, of Osman's father, is far more to my taste than this, which was also, to my sensibility, way over precious.  I kept wanting to say the title as Snowflake.  Yikes.  My friends who adore this series would never forgive me if I called it that!

Edited April 21 by Zorral

[Zorral]

nvm -- something about these Japanese music videos the forum no like!

 

Edited April 21 by Zorral

[BigFatCoward]

On 4/20/2024 at 11:27 PM, Ramsay B. said:

I finally watched Saltburn. What a ride.
 

  Hide contents

Keoghan is something else. The way he can portray an awkward nerd then turn on a dime to a dominating, seductive manipulator is quite impressive. Add in his unique look and these type of roles are just absolutely perfect for him.

 

 

i find the complete opposite, i find it preposterous that he was able to do what he was able to do and it stretched credulity. 

[BigFatCoward]

On 4/21/2024 at 4:13 AM, mcbigski said:

Really?  Margo Martindale was probably the best antagonist apart from Boyd and I think that was season 2,   (Mags Bennet.)  Whatshisname that other guy from the show with the plane crash and the money and that one guy from that sci fi series was also a great villian.

Mags was great, the only crap antagonist were them alligator fuckers. 

[Ramsay B.]

22 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

i find the complete opposite, i find it preposterous that he was able to do what he was able to do and it stretched credulity. 

I mean yeah the plot stretched credulity, but it is a work of obvious fiction. What you quoted was more about Barry’s performance, which I thought was amazing. Or you just didn’t buy his performance?

[BigFatCoward]

1 hour ago, Ramsay B. said:

I mean yeah the plot stretched credulity, but it is a work of obvious fiction. What you quoted was more about Barry’s performance, which I thought was amazing. Or you just didn’t buy his performance?

I didn't buy other peoples reaction to his performance, its like if they used pre transformation Steve Rogers as Captain America.  I don't rate him as highly as others, but I've only seen him in Saltburn, Eternals and Dunkirk (which i barely remember to be honest).

[Isis]

Watched First Omen last night. It was quite good in a cinematic sense, quite interesting to look at, some good performances. As for the supernatural horror aspect of it... it was good, I thought. Not amazing, but...good. We were the only people in the cinema too which was pleasant.  

It's interesting to put it in the context of listening to some podcasts about The Omen and The Exorcist and the revelation (LOL) that the concept of the number of the beast etc, which although known as accepted symbols of the devil to us today were NOT such obvious signs (lol) back in the 1970's. So therefore watching First Omen set in 1971 and people being like OH YEAH THE MARK OF THE BEAST INNIT? like everyone knows about that is kinda odd. 

[Darryk]

Watched Immaculate and quite enjoyed it. Wouldn't call it a good movie but it's a decent movie but it was a decent horror movie and well, it's hard to find those nowadays so I'll take it.

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

Shogun is an example of a quality show with a bleak,serious tone. Andor is an example of a borefest with all the Star Wars joy sucked out of it. Can’t believe you guys rate it high.

[Ran]

4 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

Shogun is an example of a quality show with a bleak,serious tone. Andor is an example of a borefest with all the Star Wars joy sucked out of it. Can’t believe you guys rate it high.

Andor is a lot deeper, thematically-speaking, which may be where you're running into a road block, much as with the ending of Cyberpunk 2077. 

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

4 minutes ago, Ran said:

Andor is a lot deeper, thematically-speaking, which may be where you're running into a road block, much as with the ending of Cyberpunk 2077. 

It sucked all the fun out of Star Wars and made it into something else entirely, that other product may be fine but then they should’ve just made their own space dystopian thriller-drama instead of hijacking a classic space opera franchise.

[Ran]

11 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

It sucked all the fun out of Star Wars

Nope. Move along, move along.

[Corvinus85]

I watched Rebel Moon part 2. I kept repeating to myself that this is not the reason why I had re-signed up for Netflix.

I already joked about how RM part 1 felt like a 2004 style SyFy channel movie. Because that's what these are. Back when SyFy would occasionally throw a lot of money at a miniseries or movie to make it look better than their usual stuff. And if this had been a book adaptation, it would have been from one of those crap authors who just write knockoffs of the popular series.

Spending 10 minutes on a slo-mo scene about wheat harvesting instead of some meaningful character development. Snyder should not be given full reigns on a movie again. 

[Relic]

20 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

Okay no, this is ridiculous. Up until some point it was semi-believable what’s been going on in this Africa storyline in 1923, but we are so long past that. 
 

  Hide contents

So say I believe that Spencer and Alexandra happened to be attacked by some rouge elephant after not bothering the elephant herd. How… unlucky. Say I believe that they had to night out in the wild. Say I even believe that somehow they didn’t have time to look for a taller tree and the lions and hyenas attacked them. I certainly don’t believe they had sex on the tree. I do believe people would be out looking for them. Fine. Lucky, but fine. 
Say I believe that Spencer is dumb enough to get on a sketchy tug boat with a dying captain to get to Suez because he’s in a hurry. Say I believe they happen to pass a free drifting ghost ship once. But twice? That’s… that’s sure real unlucky.  I sure believe the captain died in under 24 hours of setting out. I can also believe the motor of the ship would be dodgy, we know the radio is. Now for all of these events to coincide in one single momentum? That’s just beyond unlucky. But they both survive without injury and swim onto the flipped boat because these two are just beyond lucky. Twice, in fact because Alexandra is stupid enough to deliberately get off it. Okay, at this point, I fully believe they will be rescued because Spencer radioed for help and they are the protagonists. Although I was sort of expecting them to have miraculously roped themselves up the ghost ship and sail it that to Suez after we cut away from the shot of the boat upside down, because it would have had that Tarzan flare and it’s honestly not less likely or believable than anything else that happens to this pair. Oh well. So they are waiting to be rescued, I don’t care about the sun or the water because it doesn’t even cross my mind that they might die at this point, I just want the actress to open her teeth when she talks. She doesn’t, but sharks do appear. They just do. The sharks come… I suppose for all the blood the captain coughed up? Because Spencer and Alexandra don’t have so much as a scratch on them. Isn’t that unlucky? And then Spencer shoots one. And the rest leave. Wonderful. You have generated 3 minutes of plot that adds nothing to the anything. Spencer and Alexandra are rescued and they land in Sicily where they run into Alexandra’s ex in a restaurant. In the whole wide world. That happens. This implies two things. That Alexandra and Spencer spent more time at sea than the three weeks they would have had to wait for the ship plus the time of the voyage otherwise they would have arrived in Sicily weeks before the boyfriend. So either they spent weeks with the dying captain or spent weeks on the top of the tug boat, neither of which fit the plot. Option B, boyfriend has a jet pack from game of thrones and teleported ahead to Sicily. Wonderful. They board the same ship, boyfriend is butthurt and asks Spencer to a duel, who refuses several times but eventually succumbs to his hormones. The two go to the deck and are handed SWORDS by a crowd that don’t  intervene and don’t realize that sword duels in 1923 are by no realistic chance legal. There’s also no staff on this ship to intervene, the only one is conveniently away to alert a foreman. Spencer defeats boyfriend three times but boyfriend is so persistent to die that Spencer eventually gives in and throws boyfriend overboard in self defense. For some reason, nobody from the crowd reinforces this chain of events when the ship guard arrive so Spencer is arrested!
………….  Are you serious? Are you seriously expecting me to believe this? Stop generating redundant plot to kill fucking screen time , the character needs to get home so the actual story can happen. It’s 1923. There’s no fucking way that it takes 1 year for you to get to America from Africa, you arse, the conquistadors traveled faster than you before the Industrial Revolution. What is this. What is this. Who wrote this? 1923 feels like it was written by Rian Johnson and David Benioff, not Sheridan. Why would anybody write like this? Cut the elephant, let their car break down. Lions fine. Let them get on the tug boat, kill the lungless gentleman, let them figure out navigating the boat alone. Cut the fucking ghost ship and bloody sharks and the rescue. Cut the boyfriend, cut the arrest. Have them run into Alexandra’s parents in a port because they came looking for her and are checking out arriving ships. Let the parents get mad and disinherit Alexandra so we don’t need to worry about them anymore. Let them board a ship, do the titanic shots and the wedding, cut to getting off the ship in the US. They still have a damn train and horse journey! You are nowhere near out of plot! Just. Make. Progress. FFS. 
okay. So Alexandra FORGOT that the boyfriend she ditched was a member of the British Royal family? Like it did not occur to this British woman on a British ship to warn her not-British husband that her British ex is also a royal, so caution might be useful to apply when dealing with him? How in the world is that remotely in the realms of possibility? Also, in light of this knowledge, Alexandra can and should be held fully responsible for the unlucky plot that occurred on this latest ship for withholding this piece of vital information. It is also preposterous that the writing would purposely mislead you to serve up this “twist” during the final episode. Unforgivable writing. At this point this storyline is bleeding from a head wound and it’s not Jacob Dutton. 

also the amount of stolen tropes in this show… Game of Thrones want their torture porn and prostitute beating back. 

 

Spoiler

I did tell you that the Spencer storyline was absurd haha. I realized halfway through that we wouldn't get home in time for the finale, which pissed me off...but...

I forgave the show, because that storyline is so absurd that it borders on campy.

However, you're off timewise. Many months have gone by since Spencer met Barbie, but that was before they started moving north. He gets a letter from the states while they are snuggled up on Paradise Beach.

 

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

Spending 10 minutes on a slo-mo scene about wheat harvesting instead of some meaningful character development

That's when I said, "Self, stop now," and Self did stop.

Also because they had levitated flatbed trailer to put stuff on, but were doing everything else by hand, all to a sound track of music that must have its roots thousands of years ago.  Film and tv sf just cannot conceive of future agriculture in any remotely believeable manner, but shove in some fantasy recreation of some fantasy European/US farming of the late 18th > 19th century, including how farmers dress.  Firefly was particularly ridiculous with that.

Edited April 22 by Zorral