US Politics: Time for the Stormy season with a chance of conviction

[DireWolfSpirit]

I really think this ( stripping felons of SS protection) is a good idea that should be enacted.

The DISGRACED Former Protectees Act would terminate Secret Service protection for individuals who otherwise qualify for it upon sentencing following conviction for a Federal or State felony.

 

https://democrats-homeland.house.gov › ...

[SeanF]

2 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

I suspect that myself. I seem to remember Republicans complaining about actually having to work the last time they held the majority in both the House and Senate. They much preferred throwing bombs from the sidelines.

At any rate, a compromise that their opponents can accept is the same as a defeat.  Success can only be achieved by compelling one’s opponents to do one’s bidding.

[DMC]

6 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

imagine [enough] Democrats would vote to keep Johnson seated if only because the next speaker to appear from this Republican House members would probably be even worse (from the Democrat perspective).

The issue even fellow Freedom Caucus members have expressed is there is no clear replacement that could get the requisite votes.  Thus, the Republicans would be in store for another weeks long process with a host of candidates getting voted down.

Frankly, from a political standpoint, the Dems should encourage this.  It’d be the second such embarrassment for the House GOP in six months.  Plus, the legislative portion of this session is functionally over, so it really doesn’t matter who is Speaker.

The reason Dems still might save Johnson is out of actual genuine goodwill - I know, that seems insane in this day and age.  Plus, a number already said they would.  Funny thing is, they might not be able to save him.  It’s quite possible support from Dems could lead to an even bigger revolt among MAGA.

[Bironic]

Wouldn’t make it more sense to keep a speaker that is indebted to the Democratic Party than risk that the republicans come up with a replacement that probably isn’t?

Especially since the speaker is second or third in line to the presidency and would also probably have significant influence if no candidate gets enough votes in the EC (happened in 1824 and 1876 IIRC) or if there is some other form of election interference as it happened in 2000 (Florida & supremes) and 2020 (all the trump schemes)…or if some black swan happens (assassination or something similar)…

[DMC]

18 minutes ago, Bironic said:

Wouldn’t make it more sense to keep a speaker that is indebted to the Democratic Party than risk that the republicans come up with a replacement that probably isn’t?

Only if that indebtedness could be of use.  Like I said, the House is pretty much done for the year at this point, so there’s really nothing to gain.  As for the Speaker’s role in certification, that’s something to consider.  But thing is, certification takes place right after the new Congress starts at the beginning of January 2025.  It’s pretty clear Johnson is going to be replaced after the election one way or another anyway.  And it’s quite possible Hakeem Jeffries will be Speaker once we get to certification.

As for the line of succession, I guess, but that’s pretty morbid and extraordinarily unlikely.

[Kalbear]

My only addendum to what @DMC said above is that it does carry a risk - both to the country and to Biden - to have a house that cannot deal with urgent issues quickly. Emergency aid for disasters, aid to Israel or Ukraine or Taiwan, anything else that comes up is literally impossible to deal with via laws if the house can't get a speaker. 

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Emergency aid for disasters, aid to Israel or Ukraine or Taiwan, anything else that comes up is literally impossible to deal with via laws if the house can't get a speaker. 

Fair point.  It’s certainly concerning on a basic governing level not to have a Speaker at all.  But that’s on the Republicans.  Also, even in October they did designate Pat McHenry acting Speaker.

[Fez]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

Only if that indebtedness could be of use.  Like I said, the House is pretty much done for the year at this point, so there’s really nothing to gain.  As for the Speaker’s role in certification, that’s something to consider.  But thing is, certification takes place right after the new Congress starts at the beginning of January 2025.  It’s pretty clear Johnson is going to be replaced after the election one way or another anyway.  And it’s quite possible Hakeem Jeffries will be Speaker once we get to certification.

As for the line of succession, I guess, but that’s pretty morbid and extraordinarily unlikely.

They will need to act to avoid another government shutdown on October 1. That's so close to the election that the politics get really screwy and I suspect most Republicans will have no desire for a fight. But they'll need to have a speaker to actually get a bill through and it was never clear (AFAIK) if an acting speaker could do that.

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, Fez said:

They will need to act to avoid another government shutdown on October 1. That's so close to the election that the politics get really screwy and I suspect most Republicans will have no desire for a fight.

Yeah, they’re going to pass a CR there like they always do that close to an election.  If the House GOP shuts down the government a month away from the election, Speaker or not?  I suppose it’s possible nut that’s all electoral upside for Biden and the Dems, which is why I didn’t mention it.

[Fez]

38 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yeah, they’re going to pass a CR there like they always do that close to an election.  If the House GOP shuts down the government a month away from the election, Speaker or not?  I suppose it’s possible nut that’s all electoral upside for Biden and the Dems, which is why I didn’t mention it.

Right, they will. My point is just that they need a Speaker simply for the actual mechanics of passing a bill. Which might be impossible if they ditch Johnson before then.

[TrackerNeil]

11 minutes ago, Fez said:

Right, they will. My point is just that they need a Speaker simply for the actual mechanics of passing a bill. Which might be impossible if they ditch Johnson before then.

Americans put Republicans in charge of the House, and sometimes, the best thing you can do is give Americans what they want. Don't like a dysfunctional House? Don't put Republicans in charge of it.

Edited April 22 by TrackerNeil

[Zorral]

"The alternate reality Trump lives in is crumbling" with first criminal trial: ex-federal prosecutor
"I think that Donald Trump is probably trying to get himself thrown into prison"

https://www.salon.com/2024/04/22/the-alternate-reality-lives-in-is-crumbling-with-first-criminal-trial-ex-prosecutor/

Quote

 

.... Q: Donald Trump is continuing to violate the gag order(s) placed on him by threatening and trying to intimidate the judges, prosecutors, district attorney, prospective jurors and other people involved in his trials. If he was a regular private citizen, he would likely be in prison by now. But could Trump’s behavior actually be part of a bigger strategy, where he actually wants to go to prison? Trump is very devious and was a student of master dirty trickster Roy Cohn. We can’t overlook that.

A: I think that Donald Trump is probably trying to get himself thrown into prison or in a soundproof plexiglass box in the courtroom. This would enhance the narrative of martyrdom he is promoting, which resonates with his base. Neither Trump nor most of his die-hard base want to confront the stark reality that the problems they face are largely of their own making, and the result of a series of terrible choices made along with way. In fact, he had an exchange during the civil trial in New York before Judge Engoron where he was basically daring the judge to put him in jail. The judge said, basically, “I know you want me to hold you in contempt and put you in jail, and at some point, I'm going to have to do that, but not now.” In the current hush money criminal trial, there is a gag order. Ultimately, if Trump keeps violating it, there will be severe consequences, financial if not otherwise. But it's difficult because you can't really try somebody on criminal charges in absentia from jail. The optics do not look particularly good for the country if we have a Nurnberg-type trial with a glass or plexiglass cage for Donald Trump. It would look too much like one of those political show trials for opposition leaders in the former Soviet Union that led to pre-ordained executions.

It's starting to dawn on Trump that this is all not going to end well for him. Trump may well just break out into a carefully calculated “unhinged” rant before the case goes to the jury. It reminds me of a basketball coach who gets himself thrown out of the game to inspire the players. If Trump was put in prison for contempt that would make his followers even more enthusiastic and loyal. It's a real tough call for a judge to make because you really need the defendant in the courtroom.

Q: If Trump were put in prison because he continues to defy the gag orders and to be disruptive in court, what would that actually look like logistically?

A: Trump would be put in a gilded cage. He would be confined in Trump Tower or Mar-a-Lago because the Secret Service does have an obligation to protect him. Trump would not be put in the general population at Rikers Island. Alternatively, Trump could be put in some type of isolated confinement. The Manhattan Correctional Center (MCC), where Jeffrey Epstein ended his life, is only about 100 or so yards away from the courthouse in Manhattan where Trump’s trial is taking place. Trump could be confined there and participate in the trial through a video link. ....

 

 

[kissdbyfire]

37 minutes ago, Zorral said:

The Manhattan Correctional Center (MCC), where Jeffrey Epstein ended his life, is only about 100 or so yards away from the courthouse in Manhattan where Trump’s trial is taking place. Trump could be confined there and participate in the trial through a video link. ....

And maybe Trump would be inspired by his surroundings. 

[Martell Spy]

Rightwing media mock Marjorie Taylor Greene after Ukraine aid bill passes
‘Nyet, Moscow Marjorie,’ says New York Post front page in latest sign some on the right are turning on pro-Trump congresswoman

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/22/ukraine-aid-marjorie-taylor-greene-new-york-post

Quote

 

 New York Post front page on Monday blaring “Nyet, Moscow Marjorie”, its mocked-up picture showing Marjorie Taylor Greene wearing a Soviet cap, was the latest sign of sections of the US right turning on the extremist, pro-Trump Georgia congresswoman over her opposition to military aid for Ukraine.

“The score in Congress is now ‘Jewish space lasers lady 0, common sense 1’,” the Murdoch-owned tabloid said, celebrating the fact that Greene and other “Republican renegades’” failed to stop passage of the Ukraine aid on Saturday, though they long delayed it.

 

 

[Makk]

5 hours ago, Zorral said:

"The alternate reality Trump lives in is crumbling" with first criminal trial: ex-federal prosecutor
"I think that Donald Trump is probably trying to get himself thrown into prison"

https://www.salon.com/2024/04/22/the-alternate-reality-lives-in-is-crumbling-with-first-criminal-trial-ex-prosecutor/

 

Wait so Trump can never go to a proper prison? 

Not even for things like selling classified documents or conspiring to mount an insurrection? I would hope that if he was convicted he would lose secret service protection.

[Zorral]

31 minutes ago, Makk said:

I would hope that if he was convicted he would lose secret service protection.

There has been some chatter about this very thing showing up as of yesterday and today.  But that's all it is so far, speculating how far SS can extend to someone even kept out of prison by a hung jury of a criminal case.

[Fez]

11 minutes ago, Zorral said:

There has been some chatter about this very thing showing up as of yesterday and today.  But that's all it is so far, speculating how far SS can extend to someone even kept out of prison by a hung jury of a criminal case.

There was an article about this last summer: https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/08/04/trump-criminal-cases-prison-secret-service/

And, as of then at least, the consensus was that no one had a plan in place yet to handle it. However, just because there are logistical challenges, doesn't mean it would be impossible for Trump to be incarcerated. He would absolutely never be anywhere near a prison gen pop though.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Didn't Kirschner address the issue a while ago? I think he assumed, that the protection of 45 behind bars would be the responsibility of the US Marshall service, as they have the experience and expertise on that matter.

[Spockydog]

Is this a joke? Dude has been in government for fifty years. He is still suckling at the teat of oil and gas. Their profits have quadrupled under his watch.

Hurry up and die already, or just get out of the fucking way (not just Sleepy Joe but his entire generation of politicians).

 

 

Edited April 22 by Spockydog

[The Anti-Targ]

Always suspicious of people taking PR photos with dark sunglasses on. The eyes are the window to the soul, as they say. It's easy to fake smile with your mouth, less easy to fake smile with your eyes, so what are the dark glasses hiding? Is AOC really smiling or has her moral corruption finally begun in earnest?